Hellhound,

I agree with you in terms of an open and committed relationships when you want to isolate her from her possible other exes, so essentially you banish them through your own challenges. That's why, I agree with you that actions speak louder than words in these stages. He's gone PAST those stages. He's married and marriage does have ups and downs. You can't use PUA techniques to maintain a marriage. No one can. Look at all the guy who sell PUA books. Are they mostly married for more than 20 yrs with a happy wife and kids? Mostly no. Why?!? Is like someone who's trying to sell you stocks and bonds but refused to show you their bank accounts when they know how much you have in yours! There are tons of those people around; which was why we had a real estate bust and dot.com bust.

One relationship guru coined the words perfectly and that is

Women don't lie, men don't listen. Yes, men do not listen because they are TOO preoccupied with playing board games. Move forward, then move back when they see actions don't reflect their expectation on the girl. They never want to listen because they think women lie -- their actions usually don't match words. That's how divorces in America is so prevalent. And that's also why divorce lawyers can afford their Lexus, Ferrari and Porsche and their loving wives and kids due, thanks to men who don't listen and never plan to. If that's how you want to play it, don't get married. It's cheaper this way.

Having said that. Having a list is a good thing from her both in terms of hopefully he can make up what she thinks he lacks or as proof in a court of law. WHY?!? When it comes to divorce, the court of law in North America (USA and Canada) are biased against men in general. Women always win. The judges in these proceedings will ask the men if they had tried everything necessary to reconcile. That's where the list comes in handy in her own hand writing. With your own lawyer, you can do miracles using her words against herself!! In a court of law, only documents mean something. Words mean nothing..

Sometimes the list reveals certain things she wanting from him. You do realize that there are women out there who are bouncing Yo-Yos going from ex to rebound guy and then back and forth. Why is that? Both men have dicks and can cum. The difference is that, the rebound guy is nothing like her ex and she needed something from the rebound guy the ex can not provide. If the ex would only know what those things are; guess what? Rebound guy -- poooff gone in a millisecond. The rebound guy is usually the nicer of the two..

Uhm, no. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... ng-it.html

If it's okay with you, may I know who is that "relationship guru" you mentioned?

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Cloaked, some of these are very logical and sound advices.

Before you shop for a lawyer, do some research first in Divorce Law and Alimony. Some states like Arizona have this to say:

• "Generally, alimony is awarded based on need and ability to pay. Tulsa courts don’t award alimony as a penalty for the misconduct on of cheating partners or abusive spouses. An exception is when a spouse’s misconduct aggravated the need for support."

In some states, cheating can affect alimony payments. You might not even be required to pay alimony when you have solid proof that your wife cheated (depending on the State of course). But you can relocate to a state which has divorce laws that are more favorable to your situation.

You're in a big mess. It does not really help when other people gang up on you and blame you for this mess. Let's solve your problem logically and as best as we can.

For those who say it's your fault, FUCK OFF!

_________________
Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

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Hellhound. I agree with most of what you say, but I don't think it's good advice to research first. A lawyer will explain all of that in an hour. In my experience, with plenty of divorced guys, talking to a lawyer will relieve a ton of anxiety, while researching it yourself will only generate more.

Also, normally the first visit is free and you can visit many different lawyers with your questions. When you find someone you like then work with them. After those visits I'd advise going to Amazon and buying the top books on divorce and doing more research.

Every guy, even in the best possible relationship, should have a family lawyer.

Hmm, that makes sense.

_________________
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I have a clear issue of trust with her, she has hidden so many things about herself and even when she 'came clean' about her ex and everything I actually chose to keep a few things to myself just to see if she does come completely clean. She didn't and she is contantly seeking male attention even though I've been loving with her, talked about feelings, have had numerous chats about our relationship, etc.

Our first 3 months living together was me making the effort to resolve the arguments, constantly looking to reach her, listen to her, be attentive but she manipulated every situation to suit her own goals.

I defined the terms of our relationship very early on but she just ignored all of them and carried on her own way. I'm not one to clamp down on people because this drives them further away but I'm getting to the point where I either I just confront her with everything and then decide from there.

I sometimes get the feeling she is what is decribed on this forum as an Emotionaly Manipulative Woman still hung up on an ex.

Yeap; basically these men got what they deserved. Early on in the relationship, men need to listen to their women about their exes or lurking boyfriends, because they will indicate what they find acceptable and you don't and see if you're a puppy willing to roll along. You have to voice this early on in the relationship that you find it unacceptable, but some men are afraid to loose pussies so they roll along (usually nice guys). Those men who don't easily roll along can play the hard to get, aloof and being assertive but then, you have to keep playing these games for the lifetime when she's still attached to her ex spiritually and emotionally. I personally won't marry women with any emotional baggage or women sleep with married men either. That's cheating. They only make great FWBs.

Relationships are meant for all of us to learn as life lessons in how we can improve ourself the fastest way. I call it the Gestalt effect. Pain is an excellent motivator for self improvement you know. We gain from these lessons and then we move on and not try to illicit the same pain next time. You mentioned that it's not one's fault for relationship matters, but if you look closely, you'll see that what you've attracted women wise are in some ways similar to how you really are. Like attracts like. Want to attract a better paying job, well it ain't coming to you. You have to have the skills set that a high paying job demand and not the other way around. Same thing with women. Want better women, you need to improve your own set of skills and self-esteem, self-love and confidence to get them or in fact they will come to you. Don't need to chase; they'll chase you. Or else end up like the many poor folks who go through divorces.

The author of the book who wrote this is Thomas Hodges or known as Doc Love.

She is emotionally manipulative because you let her early on in the relationship. If you don't, she won't, but sometimes we are afraid to speak out what's in our mind and heart when we date women because we fear offending them or loosing pussies. In a relationship, you are her daddy and spank her when she's naughty. When we speak out what we feel is right and just, these women will respect you because you are willing to go against her wishes. What's the problem loosing sex for a few months early on when later on, she'll be the yes girl to you for anything you want her to do to you. When you don't speak out and next her for her poor behaviour in risking loosing pussies, she'll just run over you like a mother spanking the child, or in this case the nice guy.

mikemight I understand what your saying with regards to letting her manipulate me early on in the relationship but that simply is not the case. I didn't fear offending her at all or loosing pussy because in a relationship that's not the most important thing. In fact it just led to arguments and more and more shit tests from her.

I did next her for certain behaviour and you commented earlier in the post that there is no point in playing these silly games in a LTR. Now you suggest otherwise.

Okay I appreciate what you saying by attracting someone who is like but the solution of loving yourself, developing self esteem, confidence and skills is a standard solution for nearly all personal problems. In this case what would you recommend to read, watch, what skills to work on, whats the best way test your self esteem and confidence to see where you are in the spectrum???

Doc Love - Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doc_Love

• Doc Love (real name Thomas Hodges) is a relationship coach for men.
  
  The primary concept in his teachings is for a man to be a challenge to the woman he is interested in. Challenge is the most important reason that a woman is attracted to and chooses to stay in a relationship with one man over another. Challenge is defined as "allowing the woman to do the pursuing". Other key ideas in "The System" include a list of Male Traits and Female Traits.
  
  Doc Love's additional ideas from his philosophy include bringing salesmanship into the area of dating, namely by "closing the deal" with a woman by getting her HOME phone number. He teaches his students and adherents to assess a woman's level of interest in the relationship by placing more importance on her actions than what she says.
  
  Doc Love's stated interest is to improve relationships between men and women, decrease the nation's divorce rate and gradually quell the 'war between the sexes'. He is highly critical of most self-acclaimed relationship experts who he criticizes as having no understanding of the concept of challenge and why a women value it.
  
  Doc Love resides in Oceanside, CA, and he maintains a website that advertises his dating self-help material.

-------------------

For a forum poster who has a man's name, your posts reflect the most fickle minded opinions. One post says one thing and the next post contradicts it. Your posts also show hatred of men in general and pick up artists in particular.

The OP appears to be a real person with real life problems. Instead of blaming and hating him for everything, let's be objective about his situation and do our best to help. He's already suffering from enough pain and anxiety. There's no point in rubbing in your hatred for men and pick up artists. If the OP wanted a woman's advice, he could have went to Cosmopolitan and not a pick up arts forum.

_________________
Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

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Hellhound thanks.

However, I think Mikemight is making a very valid point in one respect but just framing it in a way that a woman would. If he chose to use the language of inner game and alpha attitude then he would come across a lot better on the forum then just bashing me with his wisdom on relationships.


So I've spent the last week on my own and spoken to a lawyer with regards to my financial position. Also been told I can't divorce until I've been married for a year at least.

It actually feels great to be on my own again, a lot more relaxed and time be with myself again. What's the best way to convey this to her without being direct?
She has called me a couple of times already and because it was on the house phone I couldn't see who it was and had to answer the phone.

I feel a bit better than before and am working on overcoming my insecurities as well. The 3 weeks should tell me if I can live without this girl and will moving on be easier than I expect.

Girls are very good at reading body language. She'll know even if you don't verbalize anything.

_________________
Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html