Cheers gentlemen,

I'm a long-time reader but first-time poster. I've got a situation I am looking forward to hearing your expert opinions on. I'll keep it succinct and to the point.

Me: 23 year old living in Shanghai, China for the past month and a half.

Her: 21 year old living in Shanghai. She went to a posh prep school in Europe, is rich, intellectual, and has anxiety and panic attack problems. Some definite pros and cons.

Situation:

I met this girl 4 weeks ago when she approached me on the metro. I grabbed her digits and we met the following evening. We spent 6 hours together, one of the best first dates I have had. Ended with a brief public makeout session. She was traveling for a week after and did not respond to my contact. After 10 days I shot her one more message and she apologized for being flaky and set up a date. The 2nd date of lunch and a walk went well and we madeout many times in a park we walked in.

Since that point, we have gone on ~10 dates in the past 2.5 weeks (we are both between jobs). She doesn't like to text much, she has told me this. Looking back I am usually the last to text before sleep, though we only swap about 2-3 a day max. Mostly figuring out logistics for our next hangout. She organizes as many of the dates as I do. We have currently just madeout, she gives body language signs to resist anything further. My guess is that she does not want to go further until things are exclusive.

Problem:

She sometimes cancels at the last minute, I rarely do. Once she straight up did not show up for a date. Now she later apologized profusely and opened up about her anxiety and panic attack problems. She share intimate details or her issues and explained that she freezes up and finds it impossible to contact me. Apparently this only happens with people who have "had an effect" on her. It was difficult for me to get mad at her at that point. In fact, every time she cancels it is due to an anxiety attack. Having suffered from similar issues on a much smaller scale, I can sympathize and relate.

However, she recently pulled something that is my reason for consulting you all. A few weeks back, on our second date actually, she brought up taking a couple day trip to a neighboring city. I was noncommittal, a bit fast for me actually. I brought it up again a few dates later and she was all game. We planned the trip (no $$ spent yet). A few days before, she asked if we could make it only a day trip as it may be moving a bit too fast. I agreed.

The day before we were supposed to go, we had the exclusivity talk. She had asked me before if I was a dating or relationship guy. I said dating and was seeing multiple women at the time. I brought this up again and we both admitted we were only seeing each other. Fantastic. However that evening, she sent me the following:

"Hello, I am so sorry, I think between our chat today and going away together tomorrow, I'm getting really anxious. I hate how it works, I don't understand it at all. I think I would feel much more comfortable doing something else tomorrow, is that ok? I am so sorry."

Sweet. I called her. She didn't respond and I asked her to call me back. She didn't and I told her that I would really like to go with her, but my time is limited and I will likely go alone (all in more and nicer terms). No response. The next day I asked how she was feeling. No response. It's now been 3 full days since hearing from her. She had talked about visiting her home in Hong Kong, and I feel it likely that she is there after the anxiety. However, it does not sit well with me that she just drops all contact like this.

Normally, I would not stand for as much cancellation and contact drop offs, but her psychological issues are real. How would you all approach this? I am not planning to contact her again until she reaches out to me. However, how should I confront the issue when she does? I want to draw a line, but also be respectful of her issues. I really like this girl and am honestly at a bit of a loss right now. Its very difficult to just hear nothing at all. Though I definitely don't want to cede all control to her.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. You all are awesome.

Steve

I'm not an expert. Just wanted to say that I wouldn't get too close to her, just because she seems psychologically unstable. It might get messy. Also I'm guessing that someone will say you should have slept with her by now.

Just let it go.

Everyone has issues. Every girl has issues. There are a few issues to address in your post.

First. She's flaky, she's overly emotional, she's got self-esteem issues, she's overly aggressive, she's too independent, she's not sexual enough, she's not pretty enough, she's too pretty. Being in a relationship is determining which set of issues you are comfortable with. Maybe the fact that she's flaky is kind of exciting for you because you are overly punctual or maybe you can't stand it. Women are crazy, the whole lot of them, so enjoy it and get used to it.

So the first question is are you comfortable with her particular flavor of crazy? Yes, then proceed to issue 2. If her kind of whack job is not for you. Move along.

Second, she finds relationships overwhelming and difficult to navigate. Whoa! Join the club. You seem like you are way past the opening phase and well into relationship territory. Who is leading the interaction? My feeling is that you are for the most part. Maybe you need to step back a bit and try to find a speed she is more comfortable with. She does seem to be trying to get some control (she approached you and she probably instigated the exclusivity discussion). I would suggest that you continue to see other girls and not let her push you into being a couple. Try to help her trust you without letting her use you as a crutch for her attacks. It's no good getting into a savior relationship.

Third, given her track record, give her a week and then contact her again. Just try to keep suggesting activities that you find to be great fun and more serious things. Also, stay away from discussions and communication about her craziness. This is probably seeking sympathy and validation and probably gets reassurance from telling people about her issues and having them console her. I'd just stay clean away from any relationship talk with her, no exclusivity, long term thinking. Don't reward her with this kind of girl stuff unless you are getting what you want: which hopefully is fun and sex.

Anyway, seems a tricky situation, so good luck.

Thank you both for your replies.

She initially hinted at the exclusivity topic by asking if I was a relationship or dating guy. I said most definitely dating, but that I am not afraid of a relationship if the right girl comes along. I later brought up the topic again and we shared that we are both not dating other people. I instigated it in hopes of gaining more intimacy lol. I told her that I have been dating other girls, but they tend to fall by the wayside when I find someone I really like and that I am only seeing one (her) now. Perhaps too much? She seemed to dig it.

However, I don't consider us BF and GF if we haven't spoken for half a week and my actions will reflect that as you said. Good point. I do find her fascinating to spend time with. We share the same intellectual passions and have spent hours debating topics without getting angry. It get's intense, but in a very good way.

She has also asked a ton of relationship questions.

"Have you ever been in love?" Nope. She didn't like that answer.

"Who typically ends your relationships?" Me. She said she usually ends hers too.

"What is the best first date you've been on?" Fuck, it was ours, but I wasn't giving her that.

I also told her that girls I dated long-term tended to get more emotionally attached than I did, which is very true. I think this intrigued her, almost as a challenge.

Anyways, I absolutely hate how she flakes like this, but you are correct, I think it also attracts me. I like the waiting a week suggestion. I'll have to think of something clever to say, perhaps you all have some solid suggestions.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, should I show her that I didn't like her flaking like this for a week? If so, how should I?

Cheers.

Well written. You seem like you have your game pretty well together.

Keep in mind that in the beginning you might find something attractive, but down the road you might then hate it. So if in your mind you agree to continue, you agreeing to accept this part of her. Tread carefully.

I'd say it's too late to get after her for flaking. For a punishment to be effective it needs to happen at the scene of the crime. If she does another no-show on you, let her know immediately that you won't accept it. If she does it again, dump her (even just temporarily or figuratively, like saying "I'm sorry I'm just not interested enough to let a girl disrespect me like that."). You can give it a week and start it back up, but don't let it happen more than a couple times.

In general, I think you should keep your game up and have a lot of other girls in your life, so if this one or that one flakes then it doesn't really matter.

Anyway, that's the point of these forums, to become better with women, not for finding "the one" (vomit).

See there lies my problem with getting after her about flaking. I don't know that she has done it until a few days later. By then, its too late to immediately confront the problem. She is definitely attracted to me, I just wish to eliminate this little habit of hers.

Though, of course, you said it perfectly. I am knowingly and willingly taking on some baggage with this girl. Its not as though there aren't other fish in the infinite sea (especially for an American in China).

Steve

One more thing to ask you guys. When I do contact her, do you recommend calling her out over text/facebook, or wait to do it in person? By calling out, I mean drawing the line that flaking in the future will be unacceptable.

The thing is, if she has got genuine anxiety problems, flaking in the future can't be unacceptable to you if you want to make it work. It's not the same as flaking because she can't be arsed to go out with you or because she's playing games or because she'd rather see her friends or paint her toe nails. It's because she has got genuine - and seemingly fairly serious - anxiety problems. Freeze outs and the like are basically a response to games that a girl might play, or if she has chosen to "act badly". If she can't help it (which you seem to suggest she can't), then freeze outs or "making it clear that flaking is unacceptable" won't do anything other than cause her more anxiety problems.

This is sort of what has been mentioned above - if she has got a serious and genuine anxiety problem then you're either going to have to get used to that and accept it (and maybe try to work through them very slowly over a long period of time, but certainly not a 'don't flake anymore' ultimatum), or you're going to have to ditch her. You can game someone out of the usual flaking, but you can't game someone out of a genuine medical condition.

Well said. I agree that I cannot game out the flakiness caused my anxiety. But what I believe I can do is get her to agree that it is fair to communicate with me. For instance, flaking on a date I understand. She always apologizes profusely after. However, disappearing for 7 days is not acceptable. If she is going back to her hometown, I think its fair for her to tell me that. Or perhaps you have a different thought? Thanks for the reply.

I suppose you can try to do that, yes. But bear in mind that if the attacks hit her quickly, her first thought might not be to ring a lad she's having a random casual fling with. She might be more interested in getting over the attack and recouperating with her family. It may not be until afterwards that she even thinks of telling you what's happened. If all you are is a casual thing, then I don't think you can expect to be massively high up on her priorities at such a time.

This is the thing; I'm not saying you shouldn't. But imo it's got to be all or nothing. You're going to have to be in it for the long haul, trying to help her get over her anxiety, or at least commit enough so that when she has the panic attacks it is to you that she turns first, not her family. If you don't want that sort of serious relationship then sack it off. I can't see how you can be anything but all in or all out when it comes to an actual medical condition. I mean I don't know how bad it actually is, so you might think otherwise. But generally, I don't have much time for girls who are just playing games, never mind girls who have got an actual medical problem! I'd rather get my casual flings from somewhere that isn't going to cause me loads of hassle.

Empathize with her, be understanding and simply agree to reschedule.

I don't know steve. You aren't really in a relationship with her, she can just kind of do what she pleases. Can't you find some other girls you are interested in so you don't give a flying crap if she doesn't talk to you for a week?

If she is your girlfriend then I'd have that talk. If you keep your mind on having fun, then this kind of talk is not fun. Maybe you are too uptight. Could be a good lesson for you. If you really have to say something, then maybe just tell her, "You know doll, I was really considering getting more serous with you, but I am not really into disappearing girls. Let me know if you are interested in being more serious at some point." Then just let her go. (didn't word that very well, but hopefully you can see what I mean)

I have been out scouting and sarging and found some success this weekend. Per your suggestion, this girl is on the back burner until she makes an appearance. At that point I'll decide if I want to keep spending time with her or not.

7000, good point about the long haul. I'm really not too sure this is something I'm interested in dealing with now. Smushed, you give good advice man. Much appreciated.

Steve