So me and this girl went to the same college and had the same classes, but we never really talked or knew each other at all. Anyway I started to crush on the girl but I ended up not making a move and thought it would just go away, she was seeing this guy from the same class at the time anyway so it wouldn't have ended well anyway. Couple months after grad I still was crazy about her, so I decided I'd at least try to go for it...

So I ended up hitting her up on FB and told her it was too bad I never got to know her and I thought she was cute and if she would be up for a meet up over coffee... She responded and said she was really flattered and woulda loved a cup of coffee but she was seeing someone (different guy from before) and that for the first time it was truly a serious one (they been together for 1.5 months when I sent her the message) so she couldn't really go for it...

She was nice and sweet about it and even asked how I was and how everything is going. So I replied back told her how I was and asked about her. But I then fucked up big time and told her I had a pretty big crush on her. I also said if her current relationship doesn't work out, don't forget about me!.. Which made her say she would rather have me as a FRIEND than another mistake in her past (fuck)... Although I never truly took her serious on that, I kinda did accept the "friend" role so she can at least know who I am before taking me off a potential BF list... But again, she did have a lot of regrets with the guys she got involved with from our class (she dated 4 of them over 2 years...) so I do see why she wouldn't want to make another "mistake"...

Anyway, the FB msgs continued for a bit and I ended up giving her my #... I kinda tricked her into texting me (and getting her #) since she never made any effort to when I gave her my # to begin with... And when she did I was being flirty and joking asked her out on a date, which she thought I was serious about at first. She did again say cant because she is seeing someone, and that if we had this convo awhile ago she MIGHT have said yes because she knows im a "nice" guy (ya another bad sign)... This led her to tell me about her past and the guys shes dated and why she regretted it all.. We ended up texting for 3-4 hours till 1 am in the morning...

Couple days later I hit her up and told her I was joking and apologized if it bothered her. And we ended up texting for 5 hours, till at least 3 AM. Just getting to know each other but there wasn't much flirting going on, I mean SOME on my side almost nothing on hers... So again, looks like another mistake on my end...

Anyway, we texted a couple more times later, all initiated by me. and after one of our convos I told her she can msg me too (since she never initiated ever) in a joking manner and she said she will next time... 2 weeks later, I hear nothing, so I hit her up and we talk again. This time I push for a hang out (2nd time I asked her to hang out with me and some friends from class, she never talked to my friends really either). The first time she couldn't make it because I gave her short notice and she had something planned. This time I gave her a week notice and she said she would let me know because she usually works friday nights... She did promise no excuses so I expected her to let me know... And since we never hung out I said it might be a little weird/awkward but should be fun and asked her if she wanted we can both hang (just the 2 of us) one time before she joined me and my friends so it wouldnt be so weird for her... This led her to say she is assuming itll be weird between me and her (so looks like i messed up here again because I think she actually wanted to join us...) And she did say she doesn't think its a good idea if it was just the two of us because "it might be "hard" for us, although she wouldn't mind it but is considering it on my side..."... I told her I was cool with it but didn't push for the hang out between just me and her... Anyways, a week gone by and she didn't let me know if she was gonna join us or not... but she did say she will promise to text first next time, or atleast try to beat me to it...

A week later I don't hear from her... SO, the day of the hang out I jokingly say "what time am i pickin ya up??" and she says "what r u talkin bout? lol? so i tell her "R u bailin on me again?!?!" and she replies with a "when did we decide to go out!?! lol, and im working tonight"... so i ask her what time she gets off work and she takes her time to reply and then tells me she is having a real bad day... I tell her she can give me a call if she wants and she says she appreciates the offer but isnt feeling well and is going to sleep as she just got home...

That last "convo" was a month and a week ago, and she STILL hasn't initiated or anything... She also saw some pics of me and other girls on FB that night so maybe she thought I moved on!?! She is the jealous type for sure.

Normally I would say she isn't interested, but she is always happy to hear from me, and when we do text we text for hours non stop till one of us goes to bed... Our convos are always fun and interesting and never dull, but she never takes the effort to text first...

So where do I go from here?!?! The girl is really nice so she is probably just trying to avoid hurting my feelings but I feel if she truly got to know me she would actually like me and be attracted because I already see some signs through our texting... As far as I know she is still in her "serious" relationship but I can go for the BF techniques and try to swing that to my favor... Also, since she is being so nice how can I take advantage of her being nice and use it for my benefit?? We never hung out yet either so I can still lay my game down proper when she does meet up so I wouldn't say I am completely screwed but I definitely need some tips! I mean I know for sure to keep flirting and lay some kino game to lay off the friendzone but the boyfriend problem really makes it interesting so the BF technique may have to be used..

*ALSO, there is a chance she did like me during school because she did point out some scary details about me but would never admit it...

Man you have to be honest with yourself... How do you really think she sees you? You probably know the answer deep inside you. Don't pick every IOI that she gave you over the years and trick yourself into believing that she's into you. From what I read, it just seems like you never had the balls to approach her when you had the chance and now you're wondering what could have happened if...

You want to know how good are your chances of geting with her? You know it. I don't even need to tell you. When you say that she probably doesn't want to hurt your feeling, I think you're right. She's just like many girls. Instead of telling you to fuck off, thus, allowing to move on without any doubt, she acts nice to avoid hurting you. It's even worse than getting turned down right?

Honestly, you should move on... In your place, I would cut her off completly. If she is ever interested, she will contact you, but I doubt it. I'm sorry. I think you deserve to know the truth.

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The people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.

I do get that, and I've tried to move on from it but it is tough. And I don't think she is REALLY into me but she doesn't really know me and I honestly think she saw the worst of me in school. And what I mean is she saw a guy that was not confident, shy and didn't go for what he wanted. I get it, I know how bad it is right now. But for one, I know I changed, I am way more confident since back in school and the only reason why I think I got ANY chance is because she never knew me before so maybe if she sees me now it'll at least give her a better impression of me.

So what do you think? Should I even bother pushing for a hangout or you think its a done deal? If she actually knew me back then I would say my chances were over but I wouldn't want to walk away till she at least gets to know me in person instead of via text or what she saw of me in school...

And honestly I think the boyfriend + her being so nice is what is giving me this false hope but should I really just walk away or should I just be a "friend" and show her the better side of me? I mean attraction can be built and I am sure I can swing it to my favor...

She currently has a boyfriend right? I would walk away, but that's my personal opinion. You want to know if you guys should be friends. Again, this is my personal opinion, but I could not stand seeing a girl I like be physical with other boys because we are "just friends". And what kind of friendship is that?! Just a one-way friendship where you will never have the relationship that you want with her.

Of course you can still be friend with her. That's up to you but, in my opinion, you'll be wasting time being obsessed by a girl you can't have when you could be meeting other girls. Some day, one of these girls will make you forget your oneitis.

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The people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.

I am meeting girls, just not as often as I would like. And honestly, the ones I have met so far don't really intrigue me. I mean at best they make me forget about her for a week and I dig the girl, then for some reason I just lose interest with them so fast. Guess I'm just not meeting the right girls.

As far as the chick I like, yes, she has a boyfriend. And don't you think it is better to at least be a friend to her, yet keep the flirting/kino going in hopes she can at least feel something back? If I choose to ignore her I will never get her, but if I stick around MAYBE there will be a chance if she is ever single again.

This girl doesn't meet a lot of guys outside of school/work/church, she isn't as outgoing as well. So if she does break up with the guy she is seeing now then I might have a legit shot. The only reason why I am holding back is because I don't want to be seen as JUST a friend, because once you get deep in the friendzone it is tough to get out of it. And I won't be seeing her with her boyfriend anyway, I don't even know the guy so I could give a fuck if I become a problem really. And it will be sure fun to run the boyfriend destroyer technique for once...

But my "relationship/friendship" with her is definitely different, I mean she tells me things she doesn't with anyone else including other guy friends that she sees as a "little brother". I honestly, can't be too sure of her intentions because she is really nice which throws me off. I can't really tell if she wants me to stick around as a plan B or is just being nice. And another things that bugs me is that she says she will initiate next time but never does. Although I did mention that if we do hang out it wouldn't have to be weird because I'll start seeing her as a friend instead, which I said on purpose to see how she would react. And after I said that she did seem more distant, that is what leads me to believe her Plan B thing. But again that is overthinking shit which I shouldn't be doing...

Anyway, you are right, I can either be a friend or walk away. But honestly, I rather go for it. I will keep her as a side chick (hence the no contact in a while) but I will still attempt to push for it. Until she gives me a REAL rejection that is. Because that "boyfriend" excuse doesn't tell me anything...

If you have any tips on how should I turn the situation around I'm all ears... Although I do feel the longer I wait the better I am getting with chicks... And at the end of the day I'm gonna have fun with it, worst case I learn something...

If you stay close to her, you have more chances to end up in the friendzone (although it is not a sure thing). If you walk away and some day you see that she is single again, you can come back and start from scratch. This is a bad sign. Of course if you beg her to contact you, 1- it makes you look needy and 2- She just might have nothing to say lol. Did you say that face-to-face or over text? How could she see you as a plan B? I don't want to be mean, but you haven't met the girl yet, right? That's cool man, it's your choice. However, if you never make a move, don't expect her to reject you because she could still keep you as a friend.

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The people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.

Here are my two cents:

You two text for very long hours. This is a pretty big IOI. However, is there any kind of flirting in there? Does she flirt with you? How does she react to your flirting? The answer to these questions will make or break it.

Nevertheless, you need to fix 2 things: 1) you have to stop asking her out and 2) you need to stop asking her to text you first. You're coming across as needy and clingy. Quit that shit. Next, you need to make her believe that you don't give a shit that you two can't go out. Talk to her about other girls you're seeing. You know, that kind of shit.

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Before she can respect you, you need to respect yourself.

1. I will never know if she is ever single, hell she COULD be single right now. She keeps her private life private. Although she did tell me a lot about her previous relationships. I know she would tell me more about her current BF if I asked. I mean I already know for sure that she isn't lying but just don't know her status RIGHT NOW.

2. I won't beg her to hit me up lol, I just gotta re connect and say I been busy. I been shying away from the needy shit so I been cutting the texting big time. Also, when I look at it on her end how would she even start the convo? I always open being witty and making her want to respond but I can't see her being creative with it like me...

3. I said it over text but we do know each other through school, I mean we talked a little, we knew OF each other but didn't KNOW one another. And no, we haven't met since but she knows a lot about me already and not from me. I mean she knew I was a smart guy/successful (she even said it herself), she knows I got a good job, she even knows I play sports and go to the gym because she even said she saw me there too. There was more too but she did see me as a high value guy although I know I took a big hit when I had to hit her up on FB to reconnect. And I highlighted most of the bad things on my initial post but I did get some good signs via text. She likes talking to me and finds me interesting but for some odd reason would never initiate. I know she is a pretty faithful girl but tends to make her fair share of mistakes. But again, I have some mutual friends with her and she was never really the type to initiate with anyone really, from what I hear. And from people I know it is pretty common for some chicks to rarely if ever text first especially if they're seeing someone. But it is weird when she says she will initiate and doesn't go through with it...

4. I will make a move, but at least this time I can build attraction when we get to know each other more. And this time she should have a legit reason to go for it or not. I mean I've had crushes on other girls and once I got to know them I didn't like them as bad as I thought I did. So at least I can explore that.

There is flirting, but nothing heavy. It doesn't really get sexual but close to it at times. The flirting is more on my side, I feel she holds back but she does tease me back. She takes the flirting well but I have been holding back too although I feel I should push it more next time.

1. When I asked her out on a "date" I was being playful, I thought it was obvious but she thought I was serious at first... But if you are talking about the hang outs, I only asked her to join me and some friends twice and both times she gave a legit excuse. I never pushed for the hang outs though and we always mentioned to hang out when we were talking about a related subject, and it was more of a group thing so even if she did bail she knew I was out instead of chillin at home or whatever.

2. I never really asked her to text me first directly. I jokingly said once "you can hit me up whenever too ya know" and she kinda got the hint off that so she always insisted, but everytime she brought up the "ill text u first next time" I ignore it. But ya I do agree, I did mess up there, but it could be worse.

How can I bring up the other chicks? Should I just tell some recent stories (to DHV) and kinda mention them without making it seem like im bragging? Or be direct with it??

I been working on that "I don't give a shit" mentality, and trying to display it but its tough via text. Really wanna throw all this shit at her in person so she can at least feel it. The texting is hard to build emotion.

And thanks for the advice, will definitely use em

I absolutely hate when people make a topic about something, and then someone gives this person amazing advice that will work, and they dont listen to the advice and rationalize it in some way cause it wasn't what they were looking for.

You are in such denial its actually depressing man. Listen to NorthBoy. WALK AWAY. And don't you dare text this girl first again. If she doesn't text you, she isn't interested. Just drop her and find someone else. Easy

First, she isn't my priority. Second, I haven't even WENT for it really. I am just gaming her on the side and keeping touch so if she is single I would at least know whats going on and make my move, or I can just go for it and destroy the boyfriend.

Just because a girl doesn't text first, doesn't mean its over... She isn't single and she is working + take night classes. Yet when I hit her up she still takes the time to have a convo for hours, I am not exactly in a bad position except for the fact she doesn't initiate... Plus, if we did hang out and she continued to not initiate that would be another story...

But I know what he is saying and it is why I made this thread in the first place. I been considering walking away for awhile now, that is why I haven't even made any effort to hit her up. But why give up before really trying?? I honestly put minimal effort after she told me she had a BF... Also, not once did I hit her up just to "talk". Everytime I opened it was because something happened that we talked about, rather i ran into someone we spoke about or something related... And then we ended up just going on and on...

Anyway, before I do either, WALKAWAY or hit her up. Lets me at least hear out more people. I mean shit, when did we all give up so early in this game?? Is walking away really better than trying and failing yet learning?

She never initiates contact even when she says she would, when you text for hours she barely flirts if at all, she flakes every time you ask her to hang out with pretty illegitimate reasons (feeling poor and going home to sleep but she probably just went home and fucked her bf for 2 hours), and she constantly LJBFs you.

That is not giving up too early without trying. That's called taking a hint and removing yourself from the situation. You can get more opinions if you want, but you know the right thing to do is just walk away. If she ever does contact you, then she is interested and is probably single. Then you go for it.

Would you expect a faithful chick to flirt and initiate? Not saying getting the girl is easy but if she KNEW me I have a better chance down the road than me walking away now, don't you think!?!?

As far as her flaking, the first time I gave her mad short notice and she had an event that I had a clue on already so I expected it. And the second time was a night she was working. She actually did work that night because I play ball with a guy she works with and thats how I knew she wasn't lying. So her excuses were legit although she didn't tell me she would or wouldn't make it but it wasn't like she even committed. I am not saying she is interested in me or anything, and I know she is down to hang out as friends. That is my whole point though, should I be a "friend" for now to at least let her get to know me for real?

No girl would drop her BF and go out with another guy they don't truly know... Besides the BFD technique is legit, have you ever used it!?!? I am in a position where I can at least get her to come out and kick it so I can build some attraction and show her I'm a more confident guy than I was back in school.

First, to address others' opinions, it's fine if she doesn't text you first... Some girls are just like that. The important thing is that she gives signs of interest when you both are talking (the biggest clue being that you two text for long hours). So honestly, it's fine. Some girls just don't pursue... They wait for everything to come to them. The only thing you need to keep in mind is that if you two were to be in a relationship, it would probably stay that way.

Second, just because you "hint", doesn't mean it's subtle and acceptable. No more hinting. And asking her out on a date, or asking to hang out is the same thing in her perspective. So eitherway, don't ask or hint at anything again.

Third, you can randomly bring up other chicks any way you want... The important thing is that it appears credible and she doesnt' think you're bullshitting her. Your stories should be fairly recent... Also you should be telling her about ONE girl... Not plenty of them, otherwise she'll think you're a player.

Good luck.

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Before she can respect you, you need to respect yourself.

Are you saying stick to the texting and not push for hangouts?? Sounds like an easy way to get friendzoned... I was trying to get a meet up to build attraction, plus I KNOW I can get her to come out for a hang out if its in a group. I would have to build up some rapport/comfort again when I reconnect tho...