This just reeks of David De... BUT I LIKE IT!

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On we plough.

Love,

Ace

Whatever, internet arguing is laughable in every way.

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Stay Sophisticated.

No more or less so than arguing with someone over the phone, or in person. Welcome to the internet age man.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Shyness is the only thing that has gotten me to have a chance with THE hottest girl at a club last week. I believe shyness and creepiness are two terms that you are mixing up. Shyness can be attractive sure, see it all the time. Creepyness, which is simply being incongruent, is NOT attractive.

It IS possible to be shy, confident, and congruent all at the same time.
It's also possible to be shy, creepy and incongruent at the same time.

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Do what you love...

i think what he means is that everyone is arguing with each other and most of us have never seen each other or actually spoke a word to anyone while in real life you are dealing with real people and live reactions which could escalate into more than arguing

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I'd rather go out swinging than strike out looking.
A lifestyle is a terrible thing to waste.
What I say when I see her is what I'll say.

Yeah. I think this is a silly concept, because I'd much rather talk about it than fight over it, so arguing over the net makes just as much sense, almost more, because I don't need to worry about a right hook when I'm shaking my head at what he just said.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

The REAL MESSAGE is between the lines (Thank you Jack)

- I never said you should follow everything Hitch says, it's a fkin movie, it's the hollywood scene and nobody discusses that, I wasn't born yesterday just so you know.
- What I quoted is what's real. The "If you're shy, be shy" that TRANSLATES into "Don't pretend you're the most open person in the world, but be SINCERE about your intentions, be assertive" And let me tell you, that is ONE hot trait. I would much rather be someone who fights to get what I want, than being a "pretend-to-be-confident" guy.
- You quoted something really intelligent "You only have a few minutes to show your attractive traits" No, you only have a few seconds. That's why you wanna acelerate the whole process with the process I have explained over and over again. Think about it like this:

* You go in dancing, having fun, moving rather provocatively and right away you go to flirt. Right away, 5 or 6 Attraction switches turned on.
* You go in *indirectly* and show that *you're not hitting on them*. What attraction switches did you just turn on? That's right, little to NONE

- If you're shy... putting some Body Language will help you radiate confidence, yeah! of course! The Question is "How long is it gonna last?"

Buddy, I'm a great fan of getting it, rather than faking it. That's how I view things.

Make sure you REALLY understand before you comment.

I don't know how else to explain this and I won't keep on doing so (Unless it's a smart remark)

At times, a person is so sucked up into what they have been told and they have been doing it for so long, that change is scary for them.

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Listen man, you are right, but personal attacks, from mods to users, and vice versa are highly unnecessary. The way your first post came across was completely different from what you have updated it with though. I agree with some of your ladder posts. The first one definately just came across the wrong way though, and completely unlike the attitude of a PUA. I am a pre-med journalism major, so I know my range of topics and can agree with many things while giving an objective viewpoint. Let's all be men here, mods and users, and discuss, not argue. There is a huge difference my men.

Read man

As a student of journalism you should know that a good journalist does a research previous to writing down anything, he also knows that people twistes words and he also knows that the way a person puts words together sometimes conveys the wrong message. You should know all of that, I know it myself 'cause I did 3 years of Journalism in High School, no need to explain what my achievements were there.

I won't argue with you or anybody anymore, I'm tired of arguing.

I will tell you this, I didn't attack anyone with my first post.

You name ONE thing or person I attacked with the FIRST POST and I will put a statue of you in my living room. (Seriously, name one thing and I will glorify you for your greatness)

Matter of fact, I posted this on my forum, but a friend asked me to post it here too (not my original idea).
My problem was with the person (who I don't want to even name at this point) who constantly tries to bring down my posts (along with my good buddy's) with fallacies and attacks, the ladder arguing was against him, not anybody else (Though, at this point I could asssure that won't be a problem anymore) The guy just had the ability to piss me off under 30 seconds.

You don't even know me, have no record of me nor have heard about me before, get your facts right before anything.

And btw, I agreed with how you view the whole shyness thing and other traits that other people view as "that-is-the-loser-trait". You're right on that. Like I said, the best message is often hidden between lines.

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* You go in dancing, having fun, moving rather provocatively and right away you go to flirt. Right away, 5 or 6 Attraction switches turned on.
* You go in *indirectly* and show that *you're not hitting on them*. What attraction switches did you just turn on? That's right, little to NONE[/quote]



..Huh,did I miss something here?You are basically parading the trait that would get you nowhere.Yes shyness may help you meet some girls who may find this trait attractive but only for a while so that they wouldC if they can manipulate Mr.Shy,on the long run however they lose interest and drifft towards the alpha guys who express no fear.If ur shy,then that would fuck ur game big time dude.You wont be able to escalate ur process normally and do kino tests let alone k-close.And remember Paris Hilton dumped that pizza guy claiming he was too shy(I know,not a good example but she is a HB nonetheless).
- The step of indirect opening only takes seconds and then transition to DHVing instantly would turn ur 'attraction switches' to work..

.Dude,if u dunno how to explain then dont bother to reply and dont underestimate my remark..And no,I dont get sucked up into anything told unless it is 100% true and reliable..

How is a shy guy supposed to pull that off? Listen, I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't understand what you're trying to say.

Going indirectly: 'An amateur hits on a girl straightaway. A pro waits 5 to 7 minutes' - Mystery.

What I play and what works for me is Mystery Method. You don't show interest in the girl unless she earns it. If you hit on them straightaway, you show you're only interested in her looks - because what the hell do you know about her? And please don't say something like 'you pick up her vibe or body language', you can't possibly know someone you haven't talked to.

Relating that to attraction switches: hitting on her straightaway shows you'll hook up with anyone with good looks. You're just a guy looking to score. *negative attraction switch*

If she has to earn your interest, it subcommunicates you hang out with good looking girls a lot because looks don't impress you. *preselection switch*

Plus, if she does nothing to earn your interest, she won't value it, that's just a fact.

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On we plough.

Love,

Ace

Oneamanshow:

It's a methapor, it's not literal.

"If you're shy, be shy" doesn't mean "be shy all the time"
It's a methapor, ok? Keep that in mind. A methaaaapor.

Like Jack said: You can be shy and confident, they are not opposites. I'll say that again: Shy and Confident are not opposites, keep that in mind too.

And you don't have to believe me nor will I explain any longer. It's not my duty. We all have realizations at some point, this will be one of them for you "One of the worst things you can do (if not the worst one) is try to be so alpha that in the end it ends up working against you" Remember, You're only human.

Oh, and I know how to explain, I just write for people who can read beyond what the lines say. Or people who have experience and their eyes have been opened already. Forgive me if you feel insulted, people just need tough love at times, I'm doing you a favor.

Ace-of-Spades:

I like you man, really. No sarcasm.

I can see you have fair success with what you've been doing, and that is the Mystery Method, and that's cool. Props to you for that.

To answer your question of how you can pull 'that' off. (That, being a guy who can go right into a set, put energy level up,flirt and turn attraction switches on)

I'll semi-answer it with another question: "Have you ever seen a natural?"

If you have, did he ever go 'indirect'? I have seen many many many MANY naturals in my life. The most charming asshole I know is Methuselah, but I love the dude, so let's not bring it into this. Just like him, there is many other guys who LOVE and USE all type of direct approaches (including me). There is even other 'gurus' who go direct too.

Yeah, going indirect works, there is no doubt about that. 43 thousand newbies, followers of the Mystery Method, is proof enough. But direct game ALSO works, and much to everyone's surprise, it works better and with FAR less flaking (In my personal opinion and personal experience) I have heard other great PUAs say it too, so I'm not making this up. If you're wondering if I have ever tried going 'under the radar', yes of course I have, that's how I started.

Now.... Before you get a bit 'WTF'ed... I wanna make clear what going *DIRECT* means: It means showing your interest to the girl as soon as the interaction starts YET you're willing to walk away at any moment if she doesn't meet your standards.

That last part of being willing to walk away at any moment saves you.

How do you turn attraction switches on by going direct?

You approach: Confidence, having fun, social, comfortable with the people around you.
Your voice: I won't even mention them, there is a thousand things you can do with your voice. Some: leadership, evoke passions, evoke emotions, you can build if your voice by matching your and her voice tone, etc
Body Language: Confidence, comfortable with your body, social experience, shows you're not intimated by her.
Your words: While not as important as the former, they do count. I've written this before, I'm not doing it again.
No, you're not a guy looking to score (which by the way reminds me, women wanna score too, secretly). You're a guy who goes to meet her and see if she meets your standards, you're very clear on your intentions. You have found her attractive (halfway) and now you want to see if the other half of her is also attractive, it's up to you to stay with her or to not stay with her. And one last thing, you're not hitting, ok? Stop using that word, it's not clever. Take it out of your vocabulary. Not only will it help you to sound more intelligent, it will also take out that mentality away from you that you're there to 'hit' on her.
Look at you, you have everything off top of your head, that's good. However, there is a thousand other ways to create pre-selection. I won't get into that right now, I teach these at my seminars.
Of course she won't value it... You're there to see if she can hold your interest.

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Haha, I agree with some of your points man, obviously people won't agree on everything, that is a fact of life. And at no point was I arguing with you either, I was defending you to the extent that all you had to do was eleborate on your ideas for other people here to get them. Not everyone understands things equally or even on the same level, in which case all that has to be done is provide a little more insight or take a slightly different approach. That's all. Awesome post above though btw.

thats what his seminars are for, and if i lived on the west coast i would have been to one already, unfortunately, i live in the northeast where the weather is brutal and the girls are nice, so i wont complain.

_________________
I'd rather go out swinging than strike out looking.
A lifestyle is a terrible thing to waste.
What I say when I see her is what I'll say.

I like everyone on this forum, however much we squabble. We're all in this together, trying to figure out the mystery of attraction, so my respect to all of you for pitching in.

Seems to me we disagree mainly because of wording. Now, English is not my native language, so I will occassionaly get things wrong. There is one linguistic point you made which I'm willing to contest, however, and that is


I've even looked up the dictionary definition of 'shy' to double-check if the negative connotation this word has in my mind is justified. It said: "A shy person is nervous and uncomfortable in the company of other people"

If you're shy (not comfortable around others) then good luck to you succeeding in direct approaches as defined by Romeo. And unless I'm getting something very wrong here, it isn't possible to be shy and confident (self-assured and comfortable) at the same time. I understand, however, that Romeo employs a different definition of the word 'shy', and that is cool, so long as you specify precisely what you mean by it. To quote Dawkins, 'words are our servants not masters'. In that spirit, I will continue to use the word 'hit' when I mean 'display interest'. There is a time and place for everything, and here I care more about conveying the message than sounding intelligent just for the sake of sounding intelligent. And, frankly, 'hit' sounds less pompous to me than 'show interest'. Nothing personal, just a preference of mine.

The very few naturals I have encountered always busted on the girls mercilessly (without being rude) and constantly kept them guessing 'does he actually like me or not?'. But you are right, they were always 100% congruent, confident, social, had good body language etc.

Cool, there are other ways to create the pre-selection switch, no doubt bro. I just don't see what good giving up on the one I described (don't hit on her until it's justified) does.



That is all very, very good. But you can do all that going indirect, can't you?

Next: I'm very pleased we agree she has to prove herself to you. But what motivation does she have UNLESS you demonstrate higher value? This is the crux of the argument for me. And here just being confident and playful is not enough, at least when it comes to 9s and 10s, since they get approached by confident and playful guys all the time. You need something to stand out, and the only way I am able to do this are a couple of personality-conveying DHV routines.

In my experience, direct approach can work better than indirect on women who are on their own. But whenever I tried to pull something like that on a girl in a set, I'd get blown off really fucking fast. I would be very thrilled to see a successful sarge on a HB10 in a 3-set where the PUA comes up to her and says 'wow, you're really beautiful, I'm curious if there is more to you than meets the eye'. I think I'd have a lot to learn from that.

To finish it off: I have to say, it's been a fairly illuminating discussion so far, I hope it continues. It's good to chat with people whose approaches are different. In case anyone missed the point, I'm not arguing whose take is better, what works for me might not work for Romeo or Jack, I'm just trying to understand where they're coming from.

Happy sarging Romeo, and for the record, I like you too man. The community is filled with people who read a couple books, tried to pull some of the stuff off on their female friends and act like dating gurus. Clearly you're not one of them. Very knowledgeable guy - credit due.

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On we plough.

Love,

Ace