I met this girl on a dating site and really liked her. I had dates planned with a few other girls but liked this one the best. She's taller than me by a bit. I'm average height and she's really tall for a girl At first I wondered how much this would be a problem. She didn't mind this and in fact admitted to feeling more self-conscious about being tall.

Anyway, date was set for dinner at a nice restaurant, but she called me hours before and asked to meet an hour early for drinks. I said yes and we went. Spent about an hour chatting, sitting a few inches apart and not really making physical contact.

Then we went for dinner and I started chatting. She kept asking about my work, which is very geeky complicated stuff, so I tried to explain. We got to talking about other things, but I think I really screwed up by doing most of the talking while she tended to ask questions. When I brought that up she said she prefers it that way.

Later on in the night we ended up sort of singing this song together which is off her favourite movie. Looking back, I realise I didn't try to game her one bit. Which seems to be a major mistake. As this was a first date and after meeting online I didn't evne try kino. Our only physical contact was the hug and kisses on the cheek at meeting and parting.

We ended the date. I paid the bill. She offered but it was expensive so I told her not to worry because I don't mind (unless she had issues with the guy paying). We went outside talked for a few mins and parted ways after a hug and cheek kisses. I was seeing a movie with a girl friend the next day so she told me to let her know how that goes.

Two days later I texted her telling her I enjoyed the night and would like to do something again sometime. (Thing is I am leaving the country next week for a three week holiday so it would have to before that.) She said she had fun but that she'd like to meet as just friends.

That sucked bigtime because, at the risk of oneitis, I really liked her. And she seemed to be a very nice person and said she just likes nice guys (I know that's never true). Still, I wonder if I can turn this around by being more challenging on a "friendly" date? She suggested going to the museum. It turns out that she's working this weekend though so we decided to do it after I get back. She told me to send her pics of when I'm on holiday and dropped an inside joke.

Anyway, I'd really like to salvage things with her, and would like proper grilling to go by the playbook and get her to like me. In the meantime I'll meet some other girls before I go.

I think where I really failed was liking this girl a bit more than I should.

Help!

That sound like a very "Sweet" perfectly "Nice" date. IF YOUR TAKING YO'UR MOM OUT TO DINNER!


But because she now knows you will buy her dinners, take her places, and do things for her, without any reward, she might even see you as a possible platonic friend, but look, Men don't have platonic friends okay? We just have women we haven't fucked yet. I mean I've got some platonic friends, but they are all by accident. Every platonic friend I got was some woman I was trying to fuck; and I dropped the ball somewhere, that being said, at least there is some small glimmer of hope of a second chance.

You were being needy as fuck!

The reason why girls hate guys that are needy is because girls are attracted to MEN. Being needy is a characteristic of a child not a man. A Guy who acts like a child (needy) “is asking" a girl to treat you like a mother and girls hate that shit. Women want a man that can lead them into wonderful experiences. Women want a man that can make them feel beautiful, sexy, fun, safe, excitement, desire, attraction, all at the same time.

Here's a big red flag your going to fuck up the 1st date:

You think “This girl is different, I don’t have to play games with her.

Bullshit< SHE IS NOT DIFFERENT.
She wants to chase you. She wants a challenge. She wants a guy she can not completely figure out.

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They call me the cat whisperer, cause I know exactly what the pussy needs.

Thanks for that Heywood. Is there any actionable I can derive from that?

I know I dropped the ball with her. Big time. Which is a pity because she is much hotter than the other girls I am seeing at the moment. She's a 9 or 10. I'd like to get back on that horse if possible. After being away for three weeks is there some way I can come back, swoop in and save the show?

Or am I stuck in friendzone for good? Redsky on chat told me the only way is to take her to a place where there are other girls who are both hotter than her and are attracted to me. Sounds hard to pull off. I'd like any other strategies if there are any to try.

I like to say; "Hey I know a magic trick that works on ALL the bitches!"

Sorry to bust your bubble NO SUCH THING!

Try being okay with being a MAN, be yourself!

Always remember, a woman showing interest won’t be offended by the idea that you want to have sex with her on even a first date. Never be afraid to be loud, be afraid to have no voice. Never be afraid of the thoughts of others, be afraid of not being true to who you are.

Get out of your comfort zone! You can only grow if you are willing to feel awkward and uncomfortable when you try something new.

All you'll really need is some basic sexual escalation skills, and all kinds of girls AND women will be trying to polish your dick off on a regular basis!

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They call me the cat whisperer, cause I know exactly what the pussy needs.

Thanks I'm working on that. I am fairly familiar with the general stuff. I mean, I know what to do. I've just been out of the game for over an year and am quite rusty in terms of execution. I'll get back there with practice.

What I'd really like to know, is given that she's still willing to go out, and seems to have friendzoned me, is it possible to come back from this? With HER I mean? Or is this a lost cause?

It's possible to get out of the friend zone, but you never know for sure until you try. You can't wait for her to come around and start liking you again. Who knows, maybe she all of sudden decided she's gay or something. You have not control over that.

You just need to DHV and make her jealous. Meet up with her and play up the friends angle. Tell her you are so glad you are just friends and ask her advice. Tell her there are two girls you like now. One is a hot black chick who's really smart, and the other is a skinny white girl with big boobs but she's really dumb. One of them you are already sleeping with but you are thinking about switching over and being with the other one. Then ask how she feels about that, as your "friend" of course.

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“Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!” ~Audrey Hepburn

What he said /\

Think of The "Friend Zone" as a WALL, You thought “This girl is different, I don’t have to play games with her.” "This is the one." So I will build a wall in front of her pussy, so that no one would have access to it. YOU laid the foundation for this wall, then invited this awe strikingly beauty, to help you lay the stone. Now that the wall is complete, she LOVES it, it's well constructed, convenient, and of no cost to HER. You hate it, you toiled over it, worried over it, and invested in it, now it's in your fucking way! AND to top it off OOPS!?! all the other dicks are on her side of the WALL! WTF!?!

Overcoming the WALL, Options are;

1. Going around it. Simplest method. Ignore the wall, leave her as a friend, pursue other women, causing attraction and hopefully she will meet up with you on the other side. (Requiring you to man-up, and consider other options.)

2. Demolition. Shock and awe. Make it clear by all actions, you cannot be friends with someone behind such a wall. Your interest and intention is to have sex with her, and that it is her fault for being so sexy, you cannot be anything else to her. (risking the platonic relationship.) But so fucking what if you have on interest in that.

3. Ninja style. Use the friendship sociably as network, to secure other female interest. Blatantly drawing attention from her, and all the other beautiful woman that notice your good taste in women.

4. Deer in the headlights. The most popularly used method. Stand there and throw $MONEY$, Flowers, Dinners, and Favors at the wall hoping that one day it will things will change in your favor. (ALWAYS, and I mean always, you end up with the worst case of oneitis, and dry dick, blistered from your own callused hand, for the rest of your retched life!)

To quote Ninja "It's possible to get out of the friend zone, but you never know for sure until you try. You can't wait for her to come around and start liking you again."

A truer statement not often heard. Seldom carried out.

I don't think your issue is this extreme, but it doesn't take long to get there once the foundation has been laid!

Heywood.

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They call me the cat whisperer, cause I know exactly what the pussy needs.

You're going on holiday, right? Hopefully someplace warm with women in bikinis. Get your picture taken with as many hot girls as possible, even if you have to round them up like cattle for a photo op. Put the pics all over your facebook or whatever. Let your target see you having fun and living it up with a bunch of beautiful women. Then when you get back ask the girl on another date to the museum or whatever. And tell her about how much fun you had and say it with energy and excitement. Then be like "You know, before I never realized how cute you actually are."

This strategy is good to do in and of itself. But it's especially useful if you are trying to get out of the friendzone. The reason is because you presented this lame-ass needy version of yourself the first time you went out. But now you are showing her this all new side of you, which is hot, intriguing, confident, etc. She'll be thinking in her head, "Maybe I was wrong about this guy after all. He seems pretty decent."

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“Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!” ~Audrey Hepburn

thanks for the info guys. it'll really help me.

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Dubli

Thank you for good communication.

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Dubli

@Puaninja and Heywood, thanks for this. This is the sort of actionable advice I am looking at it. I don't mind ruining a non-existent friendship. To be honest, I'd rather not be friends with her. My goal is to use this turn the tables in the next meet if possible.

I am going to a hot country, and will try to take as many pics with bikini clad girls as possible. I'm also going to go see the blue whales and try to snorkel with them. She said she wanted to see the blue whale pics when I get back, so what I could do is go out and hand her my phone with nothing on there but blue whale pics and pics of me having fun with girls in bikinis (if I can find them. Haha! Where I am going they may be more scarce than blue whales. But I will try my best at rounding them up.) That would be a nonchalant way of showing her. And then I'll DHV and try to act like I am interested in other girls to the max.

I like the idea of coming round after all that and saying, "I can't believe I never noticed how cute you were". The positive thing is, there is at least one tiny thing that I did by the playbook: I haven't complimented her looks so far, so it might come off as genuine?

I'm reading Doc Strangelove's the System right now and anything I can get off the Internet. I should be able to get some solid practice in on the girls I'm seeing before I fly, and perhaps while I'm there. Can you recommend anything else to me on this front? Is the System a good series for Pua or is there much better material? I'd like to follow one coherent system. This would be less confusing for me at this stage. I don't want to be overwhelmed with a plethora of PUA advice. While they tend to agree on the core stuff, I find that they sometimes contradict themselves.

I did read some material on the kiss close with the triangle look for seduction. Had I read that before our date I would have 100% executed it. A pity.

I just have one question. Why should I talk about 1 hot black girl and 1 white girl with big boobs. Is there some psychological reason for that particular pick?

this happend to me once with a perfect 10... i messed up & learnt a lesson.

DO NOT REACT when she says just be friends, if you game her hard, or openly try make her jealous it may seem like your bitter about her wanting to be friends, or you are socially retarded and cant take a hint.

so do some DHV, flirt slightly with waitress etc, and FLIP THE SCRIPT. shes playing hard to get because she really must want you but doesnt wanna seem like a slut, shes not adventurous enough for you anyway, you like women who arent timid. ask her to help you find someone more adventurous.... then over time you go "maybie your more sexy/fun than i thought"

but because you dont wanna be friends you can go hard, burn the bridge and learn a lesson like me if you want.

i don't know how i stumbled across this because i have no interest in this community any more. but in a bored moment now that my bike ride for the day has been cancelled due to weather...

i loved how the advice developed. "be a man, stop being needy" etc... great, very good, general stuff. i thought harsh but fair critique. but then when asked for specifics, the guy gets "stand around with bimbos in bikinis, boast about such things", and generally lie and manipulate. hmm.

you see i don't see how for a second the first piece of advice leads to the second. there is nothing impressive or manly in the 2nd set of actions. it's just adolescent and trivial. you think that a woman wants a guy capable of acting that way for the father of her children?

the guy meets a girl he really fancies. but let's face it, she doesn't fancy him but more importantly they probably don't have common shared interests/values. he interprets her rejection as a comment on her looks but it's not. it's just that he didn't inspire her with his vision, his drive. and that is the end of the story. not every girl will be inspired by you values; move on and find a girl who is.

the problem with how this scenario develops is that the guy ultimately has no value in her eyes as a leader, as a tough guy, as her boss. the game will tell him to create such value artificially by posing and showing off and covering his rather bland cake in sweet, sickly icing. but no matter how much icing you put on, it's still a bland cake underneath and she will find it.

the game is about one thing: being a man and not caring about women, or more accurately individual women. you build a life of substance and purpose and you allow a lucky woman to inhabit that world on your terms. you don't go chasing any pretty face.

so my advice is simple: get a life! show purpose and direction. this woman will either follow or not get you; it's a no lose situation. but don't go chasing her because she scores an arbitrary 9 on your scale. do you realise how sad that would sound to her?

Thanks for the advice, kbird. Good to get as much input on this as possible. I'm formulating a game plan from all this and should see it in action when I get back. Did you manage to get the HB10 or did you burn that bridge learning what you learnt? Do you really think this bit is true? "shes playing hard to get because she really must want you but doesnt wanna seem like a slut" ... I'd like to believe that but I don't want to bullshit myself and I think she friendzoned me rather than is playing hard to get.

I have more of a life than most people. I work extremely hard, and am extremely ambitious, have lots of fun and successful friends, and get to do a lot of fun activities. I've achieved a crap load for my years. I don't have any misgivings about who I am in terms of everyday life, but just being all that isn't enough by itself. In fact, you could have none of those things and still do great by being in sync with women's feelings.

I am not chasing after her just because she's a 9. She's got a great personality and is in general the type of giving, honest girl that I like. But "being yourself" is shitty Oprah Winfrey advice, and doesn't work to better your odds. You don't need to be fake. You just need to present the best version of yourself. You know you're great for her, but it's not easy to convince the lady in a matter of hours of that fact until you draw her into your life and show her. But to be given the chance to draw her, you need to keep drawing her in bit by bit. In Silicon Valley and other tech hubs there is an analogue between this and entrepreneur-investor relationships, and to create exactly this dynamic, they have come up with concepts such as the tweetable pitch, the elevator pitch, etc. The goal of those meetings is very similar to dating. You're not trying to convince the investor to back your startup. You're giving them just enough so that they keep coming back wanting to know more. The reason: often what you do is too complicated to get out in one meeting without killing their interest.

Since that last date I went out with another one last night, and this time I did follow the game, and we both had a better night. I felt, through it, I was able to better project who I was. And the fact that she gravitated towards me was very positive. While I like her, the first one fits the type of girl I want much better. I'm either going to cross that bridge with the first one, or burn it trying. In the meantime I can keeping looking. The pool is big.

well, if she really is a great catch beyond her looks, then that's a start.

sure, we all hate the moment someone tells us to just be yourself. it feels like bland, useless advice. but that's life. no-one else can tell you who you are or who you can be. the advice might feel worthless, but that's because you need to work hard to become the best you. the game in the form discussed here is just one solution; not the solution. the true game tells you to fill your life with substance, be confident, lead people and don't be deflected from your path by the fact that not every girl out there will want you.

i have no doubt you're successful; and not in need of generic lifestyle advice. but do you not, as someone who has substance in his life, think that chasing women with these tactics is a touch juvenile? would you not be better of pursuing actual value in your life, not packaging existing value? the ratio of substance to style in this world is about a million to 1. does the world need more PR or more value? cutting through the bullshit; that's a man's job. not perpetuating it.

the game in its limited form is for the vacuous and superficial; no-one who actually aspires to achieve great things should delude themselves that they will do so through gaming. it adds no value pure and simple! it maximises what you have sure, but it is at the expense of others. ultimately, it is narrowly materialistic and a symptom of a world that prides itself on instant gratification and consumption.

you won't become a leader through this game. you need to live in the real world of substance and start spreading your values and moulding the world in your image. all that you're doing right now is allowing the values of others to permeate your world. what do you love doing? do it, encourage others to do it, add value to the world.

this woman you've met; prove your worth to her; fight the long game if she's worth it. be friends for 6 months. do what it takes to keep the conversation going; don't bow to her or prostrate yourself, but show you recognise her worth as a human being. and dazzle her with your worth and your purpose.