i've dabbled in pua and heard tons of shitty advice in my life. It all reminds me of Tekken and Soul Calibur series as well as kicking a soccer ball. Anything where natural skill and learned skill can make a difference makes a decent analogy.

First, bruce lee quoting a swordsman. Not word for word, my memory is foggy and the exact quote isn't needed, just the idea.
"When you pick of a stick and fight it's all natural. Every move you do is thoughtless and fluid, like water. Then when you learn swordplay you think and this causes a delay. thinking before you act causes you to be at a disadvantage. It's cause the techniques learned are fresh in your mind and you have to think of them before you act. These become ingrained in your mind, 2nd nature, and you no longer think. You are what you once were only better."

In tekken I never learned the correct set of combos or even the moveset of any character. Nothing I do is thought out in that game, everything is natural instinct. However my ingrained knowledge is low, very very low. So I tend to fail quite a bit. I lose matches to a professional. Someone in training or of lesser strategic ingrained memories I defeat regularly. We both know nothing, but I have other mental skill sets that can be applied.
Tekken is something I have no interest in learning. It's not a fun game to me. I have little interest in learning more. There is little reward to learning it also [other than money in a tourney].

Soul Calibur. I started off with no knowledge of the game. Playing against two people who also had nothing but were naturals. I got my ass kicked, but loved the game. I would win on occasion due to the natural playing I had going on. Then I learned the different attacks and a few bits of the move list. Nightmares and Links mostly. I was a bit off because i was thinking of what move to do.

Then I had Nightmares movelist ingrained in my head from studying over and over and doing over and over. There was never any thought about what input did what move or what moves I had to offer and I won more. Everything was natural again. I still lost a few matches.

I studied combos and tech traps. Same process, initially worst because I was thinking about it all. Then it came fluently and natural. I knew all the combo's and tech traps and didn't have to think about them. I still lost a few matches [less than before though. Improvement was there].

I started learning mix-ups, set ups, footsies, block streams, safe on block moves, move properties, etc. Each their own category like movelist, combo's and tech traps. Each a new aspect to playing nightmare. I learned match-ups for each character [which meant studying all of the above regarding said character and how they fare against nightmare].
All of these resulted in the same theme: Worse at first because I had to think, then natural. This is learning something new that can be applied to life.


Soul cal can be isolated for the most part. You still need to play smarter players in order to gain skill and must seek them out.


Soccer best represents how girls are for me.
I had the worst shot on the team. Everyone on the team seemed to have a different concept of how one should kick the ball. Jeff: use the side of your foot, you're new and it's a beginners shot.
Jake: Use the instep of your foot, the side is for passing. Instep for a powerful and more accurate shot. Side gives more control, less speed, and slightly less accuracy.
coach: I'm bussy, ask your teammates.
Adam: Just not your toes man.
Jake: I use my toes fuck it.
So I tried all i was told. But when you're new to something it aint gonna work right away. I was told so many different things and none of them worked initially. I get it, practice practice practice.

But what if I'm doing it wrong. Like practicing the perfect flowers to give a girl. Or the perfect way to make sure I pay for everything. Or the perfect apology for when she thinks I'm in the wrong. Or the perfect friendship when she says "let's just be friends." All wrong. wrong wrong wrong. So wrong.

Well, I had no luck. Luck is what one needs with things like this. I had none at all that first season and practiced and WORKED HARD. Hard work is mandatory but luck is needed. Like in tennis that moment when the ball hits the net and you don't know which side it will land on. It's luck, no player predicts or hits accurately enough for it to be anything else. Hard work was mandatory to be on par with the toughest opponent but luck mattered during that point when the ball hit the net.

In soccer my luck was one day at the library. I sat at a computer and some girl was selfish and stupid. She kept saying things. Some guy was making fun of her. She said something selfish. I made fun of her. She said something stupid. His turn. back and forth we tag teamed her.

I left. I read a comic book. That guy came up to me and thought I was cool and started bsing with me. turns out he was really good at soccer and watched vids of how the pros did shit as well as went to soccer camp. He taught me how to kick correctly: with the instep. He showed me drills. I went through soul cal phase: Natural toe ball shots that're subpar, but natural. Instep shots where I think about it and am worse than the toeball shots. Increases skill and knowledge and less thinking and better than before. Enlightenment where I know enough to add to it all in the form of right and left curve balls. topspin, backspin, knuckle balls. A crazy slider effect. I researched baseball pitches and the spin on the ball as well as skateboarding flips and learned prototype kicks.

Some of what I learned for the prototype shots were practical [topspin, the late curve, a slider, etc..]. Some took a great deal of skill but were impractical [backspin shot and all it's forms. Backspin pass is okay, just not the shot]. Even with the impractical shots they proved practical when applied other places in the game.


Dating/sex/girls.
I here a variety of advice. A wide stream of different things. I don't know which is right, which is wrong. I can try it all I want and get frustrated and quite when it doesn't work. It's like soccer that first year. Just cause it didn't work doesn't mean it wont. Just that I didn't do it right and haven't practiced. But how will I know which is right and which is wrong? Some learning curves are harder than others.

I want to go into RAGE mode like I do in soul cal [rage mode is something I named. It's applied to fighting games but can represent anything learned.]. Rage mode is, in soul cal and other fighting games, when you've ingrained knowledge that pertains to movelist, move properties, combos, footsies, getting in, spacing, zoning, and other aspects of how to play well in the game and you don't think. You act over and over unpredictably in a fit of rage.

This works well in everything I've learned. If you succumb to the "rage" and act while you're well informed with ingrained learned knowlegde you don't have to think about it ends in a higher chance of success.


So. With girls I don't know how what to learn or what's right. I know I need to learn the correct way [which ever is successful] and practice over and over. Till it's ingrained, then go into the field and practice a lot of field trials till I get it down and am enlightened by things I didn't see before.

I just don't have the luck to see the clear path or know what path is correct.

_________________
I feel like the point of a community is to help where/when/however u can.
-Aceospades12

I'm not going to go into everything you discussed but I will tell you something about me.

When I was about 13 I was terrible at 'soccer'. One of the worst at my school.

Then one day I decided it was something I really wanted to get better at. So I bought a 'soccer' ball and just went onto the field where I lived, by myself, early in the morning and I didn't go home until it got to dark. Some people used to laugh at me because I was always out by myself with just a ball for company.

I had that ball at my feet everyday. I became one of the best 'soccer' players in my school and I represented my country at under-age level when I was 16.

And when I wasn't on the field with a ball, I was at my computer learning all the techniques.

Do you want to be as good with girls as you are with Tekken? Then put just as much time into it!

This is restating what I already said and offers nothing new to the conversation.
Tekken... yeah I don't give a shit so I don't try so I suck at it [and the games sucks ass anyway].

Girls I give a shit and try to learn and actively read about girls and put in time and effort and still fail.

Soccer I did the same shit. I was out in a park with just a basketball doing what you were doing. Just practicing. I was practicing the wrong way. I was perfecting my toe balls and kicking the ball with the sole of my foot. I was reinforcing within myself that this is how to play soccer.

Then I went to high school and everyone said it was wrong but no one offered to sit down and show me the right way. Not till I met charles who taught me the right way and did drills with me. I practiced every day perfecting my shot and dribbling. I had access to the internet then [but not before... I'm 29, access to the net wasn't exactly there when I was younger than 14]. So now I was able to look for tips, I had found no videos [cause the internet sucked in the early 2000's/late 90's.].

Charles had a few tapes. VHS tapes he lent me. There was one in the library that didn't teach but was just a documentary on soccer. I would watch and rewatch it and slow it down and watch carefully at what the players did. Then try it and so one and so on.


Hard work paid off and I was the starter of my highschool team, mvp, and most improved player. Then I didn't care in college just wanted to play was all and in college I didn't have to join the team to play.



Girls, it's different. It's like early in my soccer career. I don't know what the hell I'm doing wrong or right. The opinions vary greatly. There isn't a clear cut path.


What you said, is of little use to me. You just restated what I said [Why? I don't know? Did you think you were being helpful? I'm a bit confused with your post].

_________________
I feel like the point of a community is to help where/when/however u can.
-Aceospades12

Lol, are you like for reals?

There is no instructions to the game called life. There really isn't a set of rules that gets you to your first lay. Every situation and every woman is different. You can't just practice shooting the soccer ball into the goal like you do with a woman. Sometimes you even got to do hail marys, and hope the receiver at the end catches the ball.

There are many people like you who think there is a predetermined sequence of "combos" you can perform in order to get a woman in bed. Most of them pay money to go to workshops held by PUA gurus. I'm not saying that it's not worth the money, but I want to clarify that they don't give you the secret recipe to making the ultimate weapon in the game.

What they teach you is advice and tips. Sort of like a personal trainer at the gym. Whether or not you get that six pack is still up to you. Same thing in PUA, YOU are the determining factor in whether or not you're getting laid tonight. The way you look, the personality you portray yourself, the things you say in response to what she tells you.

PUA helps fix a lot of things I just listed but by no means does it give you the key into heaven. Learn to dress better, work on your inner game. Build an attractive personality.

What I said was a true story but it was also a metaphor for learning something new but if you want me to be 'factual', that is even better.

What have you learnt so far about picking up women? i.e what things have you implemented so far?

Should be any easy question to answer, especially for someone who has put time and effort into it.

Okay, what you said assumes a lot about me that's not actually there. And then after you've made you're assumptions and accepted them as fact you go on to give advice based on our assumptions, not what I actually said.

Somewhere in there I mentioned that in something like Soul Cal, soccer, or pretty much anything you can learn a variety of skill sets but these do not mean you're going to succeed. I just means you have tools to help you succeed.

You can practice till you're the best shot in the world and fail horribly because you can't dribble the ball, can't shoot off the dribble, can't get open, don't know where to place yourself on the field, etc. etc.. But you still have a good shot, which is more useful than not having one.

I never said there's any set combination of words and actions that work on everyone. You've just assumed this and what you've said is pretty useless. You're telling me what I already know.

What you said brought nothing to the table.
You said to do what my first post said to do.
what follows after i.e. is a clarification and the ONLY options. what follows after e.g. is a list of options as examples.

Answering your question serves little purpose, especially since you're insinuating that I don't have an answer and being confrontational about it. Why would I care to give you an answer?

What is the point of your question?

_________________
I feel like the point of a community is to help where/when/however u can.
-Aceospades12

This is your problem. There's no such thing as failure. "I put in the time and effort and still fail" What a weak mentality. You thought this was going to be easy? I'm sorry mate, 95% of guys in the community fail. How long and how much pain can you take before becoming good is a choice that YOU have to make. Not me, not the guys on this forum.

This forum or anyone else cannot provide you a book with clear steps that you need to take in order to get good. We cannot give you a manual on how to create your life. You know what you want? (getting good with girls) Than go after it like there's no tomorrow. "There isn't a clear cut path" Actually there is one path that leads to success: ACTION. Combined with enough time invested, you'll become good.

You say you do a lot of effort, putting effort is not reading about seduction, watching videos or posting on the forum. The effort takes place in the field. Are you reading more than you're out? Than you're not putting the right amount of effort. Take action, stop reading different pick-up conflicting theories about what's right or wrong and go out to find out what works for you.
You can't see the path because you haven't failed hundreds and hundreds of times. You're not going out..you're reading seduction material. Are you talking to 40 girls every week? Are you going out and pushing every set to the limit? Probably not. Failing is learning what not to do and see the path that is correct.


FlaiR

Ok.

Summarise: You want help with attracting girls?

That's the reason we are all here. Your just saying that you are currently at your lowest point and don't know where to start.

Have you got your basics down before you even approach another girl i.e. fashion, grooming, body language?

How is this stuff going?

By the way, I am being friendly, not hateful.

It seems to me you're trying to find a "clear path" aka the right combination into the safe filled with pussy.
You're right. I did assume. I assumed based on what you told me. FlaiR made a more direct post. Stop thinking about all the theoretical crap, just go out and try. Experience is key to learning. With women, you need to keep trying until you find success. You can't study women like you do for a test.

No, this isn't the problem.
Why you feel a need to insinuated how difficult I thought something was or wasn't is pointless.
The reason I fail is I don't say the correct things or I say the wrong things and am unaware of it. In some cases I am aware of where I went wrong e.g. Bitching about how much my day sucks to a girl and then seeing her noticeably less invested in me leads me to believe she was less invested because of the bitching.

Other times I don't get it. It's not a weak mentality either to be aware of what's actually happening. Failure is not getting laid or finding a girlfriend. Everyone fails. I'm not stupid. Now consistently not getting those things is what I was talking about, since you seem to need it spelled out to you.

And you place assumptions that I'm not going out and talking to women and this is why I don't have women. This is silly. The whole point of this topic was that I WAS doing just that and still having no success because I didn't know what the fuck I was doing wrong or right. The point was that I'm on a college campus talking to girls, then at the fucking bar, then at a house party, then walking around town, and everywhere I'm not succeeding and I don't understand what I do right and what I do wrong.

That's what the soccer analogy was for. I used to kick a ball around the wrong way all day everyday and learned how to kick a fucked up shot. Till someone helped me learn a more effective way to kick it. I'd been doing it wrong over and over and over and over and wasn't even close to doing it correct.

It isn't that I don't try.

Okay, when you say i.e. do you mean "in general" or "that is"?
Anyway, fashion, eh, whatever. Don't care, but my friend Charles dresses like a slob and gets girls so I don't think it matters anyway. I match and have a utilitarian thing going on, only flashy point is my hair since it's long and curly and girls seem to like it.

Grooming, of course. It's irritating when I'm got messy hair, facial hair, etc..
Not sure what you mean by body language aside from don't stand like a slouch or cross our arms too much type of shit.

Saying you're being [insert something you claim to be] versus showing you're being that thing have different effects. One if a lot more convincing than the other
yeah... this is of little use.
A clear path isn't the right combination to everyone.
A clear path is more like learning how to shoot a soccer ball. It's a tool and skill you've learned that will now help you score a point in a game, but every teams defenses are different. Every player is different. Every field is different. and so on. Still knowing how to fucking shoot the ball is something that helps you get a goal and there are a variety of situations you'll learn from doing [as I mentioned in the first post when I'm describing how you read a book. Practice in isolation. then practice in something that's for real. then you've ingrained this in your head. Then something new pops up but the ingrained memories and skills can still be applied to the new situation and are enhanced by your creativity and problem solving skills].

Like openers. A lot of them will work on a variety of women. Personally i just say "Hi, I'm Nick." Or talking about whatever's going on. This only get's so far and doing it over and over doesn't let me learn something new to say. Just that it only get's so far.

Watching and listening to what someone else says who's getting a lot of success will be more useful. My friend charles for example will talk about tv, movies, sports, whatever and then give the girl a compliment usually spoken like this "You've got a great sense of humor I bet your boyfriend loves that." To which there are three responses generally "I don't have a boyfriend.", "He does blah blah blah.", and "No, he doesn't seem to appreciate it." If it's the first or last he hits on her more and gives her his number. If it's the middle one he continues talking but never gives away any phone number.


This was figured out by thinking. Not acting.
There is a time for both, at my state where I've been doing a lot of action and getting no results I know it's time for thinking. Not getting shut down more and more with no results and little being learned.

_________________
I feel like the point of a community is to help where/when/however u can.
-Aceospades12

I think what everyone here is trying to tell you is that no one knows for sure why you're not getting results. But what we can tell you is that there is no "correct" method for picking women. Just as every women says something different, some methods and routines work better for some guys. You have to keep trying until you find what works for you.

How do you find what works for you? Through more actions and failures. Learn from them and keep trying new things.

Wow, the way you responded to what I said is ridiculous. You're just doing this for kicks now.

I'm done with this thread, I would rather be helping someone else in the forum. Someone that is actually open to being helped.

All the best

Expand the "soccer" (football!) metaphor out a step. Look at all the different players and all the different styles. You've got little but quick wingers. Centre backs who might be well over 6 feet tall, slow, but great headers of the ball. Other centre backs who might be a bit shorter, less good in the air, but are super quick and read the game well and make quality interceptions. You've got box-to-box central midfielders who defend then get forward and attack with superb fitness. You've got limited defensive midfielders who have poor technique but can tackle well. You've got strikers who do nothing but poach goals and score from 6 yards out, and other strikers who drop deep, win the ball and set up others.

Now, yeah there are some basic skills that everyone in the team needs to learn - how to pass, how to tackle, having some tactical awareness helps, how to mark opposition players, things like that. But then each player and each position learns different things. I am one of the best amateur centre backs in my county. I can also play as a defensive midfielder quite well as the skills are similar.

But if you asked me to play on the wing, I wouldn't stand a chance because the skills I would have to learn to become a good winger would just be beyond my reach. I am never going to be naturally quick. I've not got a low centre of gravity so am not overly agile, and can't dribble very well as a result.

Turn that into a pick up metaphor. Everyone needs to learn some basics. You need to have some confidence. You need to have some basic social skills so that you don't go and just make people think you're a complete weirdo.

But after that, it's about finding what works for you. Footballers practice skills to improve THEIR game. They look at things that they're bad at and try to improve them, sure. BUT, if it's a striker, he doesn't go into training and think he needs to practice his tackling, or his shot stopping (goalkeeping practice), because although there's massive room for improvement, they simply aren't things he needs, and they aren't things that will help him succeed in achieving his goal.

So in pickup,once you've got a few basics, you need to have some idea of where you want to be. The thing is with pickup though, you don't get pigeon holed into one position. You can't say "I'm a striker, so I'm not going to practice goalkeeping drills". You have to find out what it is you need to practice another way. Some things obviously aren't going to be your style, so you disregard them immediately. Personally, I've never gone in for the more dramatic routines where you need props or the "game" type ones. Just seem unnatural to me. So I've never even bothered using them.

But as a general rule, you need to try new things, see which ones work for you and which ones don't. That's pretty much the only way you're going to be able to figure out what is and what isn't.

Why are you arguing with people who are genuinely trying to help you?. It is a weak mentality. It's a mentality I never adopted. You think i was aware of what was happening?? You think everyone who got good got good because they knew what they were doing? Please be serious..
How long have you been doing this? Have long have you been going out? You're not putting the effort..I bet you didn't went out at least 2 times every week for at least a year. Have you? I'm 95% sure already of the answer...

Solution? Take more action. Stop complaining, you will not find a map on how to be good. I'm just stating the truth here.

I guess.
I'd still rather not go back to another party, bar, or whatever not knowing a basic guideline for an opener and trying what works some of the time for me as far as opening a conversation.

So, what works for you?
Sure, you might say it only works for you and wont work for me or whatever. However I am pretty adaptable with things I've learned.

Also, here's a situation I'm confused about that was rather recent.
Meet some girl on the dance floor, we're dancing, we make out, exchanged numbers. I had to go find my brother cause he was drunk and lost out in the cold so I tell her I gotta find him. She says to text her. I do. She takes FOREVER to respond. When I reply to her response she doesn't reply back. It's been over a day since I've sent her the response to her reply.


I wouldn't say I'm doing this for kicks. I really don't know what you mean when you say i.e..
I did respond to what you asked about the basics and am interested in what you think about it.

Tell me some of the basics. Things that are what passing, shooting and dribbling are to soccer as they are to pick up. I personally play Center mid and blah blah blah.

In life I'm cold and calculating and very introverted. I like to have my space and territory undisturbed. I like to have a back-up plan in cause things fail. I look ahead and make plans as things are developing. e.g. Me and my brother walked out in the cold to go to a bar he wanted to go to. I was mindful of where we were going and aware of three other bars that most likely had something going on that night. We arrive at the bar he looked up and the cover was higher than expected [it was expected to be free, but was actually $20]. He thinks it's time to go home. NO. I tell him of the other bars [which I had no intention of speaking up about unless the current plan failed] and off we go.

While at the bar I keep in mind he's not from detroit and he likes to drink. A lot. And our ride might potentially be unable to pick us up. And my friend Harold would more than likely let us stay at his house. I'm peaceful and relaxed knowing that if shit goes wrong I have a plan. Shit goes wrong, I find him, call our ride, who doesn't answer. So I call Harold and we spend the night at his place.

Point is, I'm an INTJ and think and act like one. I get what you're saying. I'm not one for the show and dance routines they teach. It feels awkward and unnatural pretending to be and extrovert when I'm definitely not that guy.

I'm pointing out that having a mentality that you're failing when you are failing isn't weak. Having a mentality that you're succeeding while you're failing is delusional, and weak. It makes it more difficult to improve when you're not even aware you're not succeeding.

I disagree with what you were saying and stated I disagree. I appreciate you trying to help. However this is something I wont ever accept as correct.
Roughly a little more than 2 times a week. Some weeks 7 times, others about once. I make a point to go out and try to place myself in a social situation where I can meet girls.

I'm not here to complain. I just want to know the basics. I figure if I've been going out that much and not getting any success I'm doing something wrong and unable to pinpoint what it is. Within the past year I've been regularly going to the bar on fridays and saturdays and sometimes other days of the week. On wednesday I go to this bonfire thing. I try different bars and make sure I talk to women every time. I go to the college campus and so on and so one and have such a low success rate I'm fucking pissed off and frustrated because I've been doing this shit for over a year and having no success.

I'm clearly doing something wrong and I don't understand what it is. So here I am trying to figure it the fuck out. That is where I am at. I'm not here to complain and bitch.

I would like to know things like, what's a good opener?
Or hear of what someone did that DID work and see what I can learn from it. Cause when I go out and see guys pick up chicks I don't always know what the hell they did right.
When I'm talking to some cute chick for an hour about anime and comics and she's into all of it and I ask for her number and she gives it to me, then later while we're talking I ask her out and she says "I'm not looking for a relationship right now." Then starts fucking some dude the next day that she just met that day and starts dating him. I want to know what the hell went wrong.

It's not that I don't try. I just don't understand why I fail.

_________________
I feel like the point of a community is to help where/when/however u can.
-Aceospades12