Gun here,

This threads been getting on my nerves since I seen it. As per posting guidelines: "If you have been reading a lot of the threads here and find a really old thread that you REALLY think should be revived, revive it with a post that offers a lot of value and insight not already covered in the other posts" . So I am going to go in depth value wise here and explain not only how my method fits in for use with others, but what problems I always had with elements of MM, especially for beginners from way back.

First off,


The misconception is that GWM is AT ALL a verbal method. While Mystery is almost all verbal. In my experience what I said, as long as the conversation was flowing, meant diddly shit. So I never wrote at length about it, beyond how to naturally have flowing conversation. That is in daygame at that, in club game verbals are even less important so I never understood the hyper focus
on verbal methods for a primarily club thing in MM.

A real life example of verbals being a huge fucking problem in pure MM vs calculated frame and state control:

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You see a chick, you read in to the situation:

She is about 27-32. GREAT skin. 300 dollar hair. Top of the line makeup. She is wearing low cut jeans with a little bit of thong showing and high heels. She has also obvious fake tits, big fake white teeth and a small ankle tat.

Ok it's an obvious white trashy stripper or stripper emulator. But you're a fucking great when it comes to the game, you know better than to judge a book by its cover.

You open you get locked in, you are throwing pebbles, you have light DHVs going you are eliciting some obvious values from her.

She is a huge football fan. She is embarrassed because her dad got a DUII last weekend and her favorite TV show is True Blood (to keep it current the real example was even trashier). This has gone on long enough, you think you've got her pegged. She asks about the scar on your forearm.

You throw a MM style routine her way at this point because you've got her all figure dout she is a fucking white trash stripper.

"This scar, it's a crazy story, I got shot in the arm right there. I was dating this girl who was a dancer, she had this creepy guy who had been coming around the club getting forceful with her to come home with him and the security couldn't do much about him. So I confronted him about it. Anyway we threw down and I punched him out. This guy claimed he was with some drug dealers or some shit though and get this, I noticed him follow me home in my rear view. Anyway I rounded up a couple of my boys and we did a sit in and drank all night waiting for this fucker to show up with his connections of his or whatever. The yard fills with cars all of a sudden. We are all hunched down with pistols going ahhhh here it comes this is gonna get ugly. No one seems to be shooting or yelling or anything though, so I go to the door with a sawed off shotgun behind my back, and a guy gets out of the car and goes "is this the party at Scotts?" haha. It was a party caravan.

"It all blows over, my boys go home, and 5 minutes later the dude comes around the corner of my house and starts shooting at me through my open door, I start shooting back and he hit me in the forearm as he was running off. The doctors said it was either a 38/9mm/40 caliber, they couldn't tell because it was a lead bullet that squished out against the forearm as it broke."

I notice her glazing over around the sawed off shotgun part, that usually gets an IOI from these stripper types (they like to think you're willing to break
the law and go to prison to protect them, because they're fucking stupid), but I finish my story, mellowing it out vs the original version I was about to tell.

Things don't go well, I later on get that she is a fucking born and bred rich girl, father was a wealthy local business owner in that town (talking fuckin huge), mother is a trophy wife former Miss something, both brothers are in college a world away, she is upper crust, she would never date a guy who admits (or convincingly makes up) to getting in fucking gunfights as some sort of machismo gang battle feature of his life.

She just happened to give all the values of a white trash early on, so I hit her with my white trashiest DHV story that usually melts a dummy with a dolphin on her ankle in seconds.

Vs the real story of the bullet wound in the arm which is way less white trash, and can even work as a great DHV on upper scale women to put out the core "MM concepts", leader of men, protector. pre-selected by hot women, yada yada yada.

However there are better ones pre lay for the upper crust girl than it even of course lol. A "dancer" isn't "pre selected by hot women" to a trust fund
baby, as one signifigant alteration lol. Remember folks, to a rich girl with any class a stripper is what a bum is to you or I social proof wise.

Again, differences of perception and socioeconomic factors fucking with verbals.
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What GWM does is keep the frying pan on the back burner hot so you don't rush through eliciting values, DHVS, rapport assumption, nlp patterns that won't fit her, or using cocky and funny where it isn't appropriate (about 95% of cases, it's just taught as a holy grail because its easy to teach) etc etc etc. Using GWM in the above example one would never need to escalate with such strong DHV spikes that could bore or scare depending on the chick and the story/routine/behavior. One would be working frame control in the midst of all of it to keep her hooked/fixed so she doesn't get bored (without the risky dhv spikes).

I'm not some dingus who never bothered to test MM. I did, extensively as it was developed, right as I developed GWM back in the old community. I can probably do MM (and SS I might add) better than all but 100 people on the fucking planet. I am a master of influence and psychology, my Way of Gun course works better as a whole than these systems in my experience and opinion, and is laid out to learn easier and more coherently than other systems. The original GWM however is an essential supplement to even be able to use the other methods out there properly. The last sentence isn't just an opinion. Hell GWM is worked in to most rehash/mixed systems to this day because it is essential.

(Bitter old communitty guy rant one: I want royalties I came up with it first!!!! Jokes aside though I don't expect anyone to check dates and mentally give me credit for what principles I championed in the community and made "common sense duh" principles, that were before me crippling guys. I am just glad they are helping guys out. I do wish people would shut their fucking traps and/or know the timeline when it comes to saying my stuff "isn't original" cause they got it from some course that was written a month ago, before they start getting trollish about it though.)

That said one can easily do both MM and GWM, and most rewrites of mystery method by other people (called their own systems by whatever name) will include
parts of poorly understood GWM. They have to, it is base psychology for dynamics between a man and a woman. I know that sounds like a bad book title but it "is what it is".

My authority frames in to to sexual state matching and rapport assumption are the essentials that "naturally" happen during a solid seduction. Unless you are good looking that is, then you can just do a little volume game until you hook up with your "equal" looks wise.

I am talking out of weight class beatdown taking a 10 home when you are a 5, not Jersey shore beautiful idiot hookup shit.

Think: good looking guy whos smoking hot wife is sleeping with some ugly fat little cop because her husband is a wanna be Dwight Shrute badge kisser and was his bitch in front of her ("daddy how do you throw a proper punch"....) one too many times. Real life guy there, it was so gross and the chick was so hot I almost started fucking her just to get her away from the cop, but the guy was a friend so I bit my tongue and watched this Jabba and Leia- esque love affair play itself out.

Anyhow THAT is the "induction of" GWM, or replications of that process of authority frames in to sexual arousal through various techniques. Not "be horny" lol. MM is hit or miss elicitation of what a genuine DHV is, for her specific, based on everything from childhood triggers to socioeconomic dispositions about class and dating. Or with new crappy guys MM can even be random DHV spikes in canned routines, even worse.

In a nutt shell if you are gonna do MM you need to do it WAY slower than most guys attempt it, so as to not put your foot in your mouth as above. Where GWM uses neutral talkand frame/state controls to work.

I'm not just being biased because I wrote GWM (1-3) and Way of Gun etc but really my stuff is better for a virgin or a new guy by a MILE. The focus is in
the right place, foundations of strong game, understanding of psychology at an interaction level, not a large evolutionary survival concept level.

Where a more advanced guy could grab the snippets of verbal and interaction game from MM and use them. A beginner can't even fucking relax around
women or be masculine in any way in the first place. Much less come up with his own DHV routines, instead of nervously delivering stuff he memorized
from whatever version of MM he read, then with no acting ability delivering it.

(Bitter old community guy rant two: That was always my biggest argument against MM was that most guys have no acting ability, hell watch the dvs of guys delivering this shit at seminars (even most instructors) they are so canned it'll tip
the chick off and she will see the DHV as a big brag.... ugh. It's not that the principles are completely useless, it's that guys can't deliver them congruently without sounding like a rambling Derek Jeeter on saturday night live! Rant off.)

Come on, Mystery would tell you GWM is better at least in this case, if he was on truth serum. Better overall for anyone? That is up for debate between those who
have only read my free stuff, people who are part of the new idiocracy level intelligence that is the internet, those who can't grasp psychological principles, latent types who go on the look of the guru for their favorite (like action figures), collect materials and don't use them, are too dumb/misanthropic to get ANY material to work at all so they hate on all systems and the entire industry, etc etc etc. I grew tired of all that crap years ago. But on this specific question there is no real debate.Which is why I wanted to chime in this specific thread, because I think there is a misconception going on here of "the virgin can just do a routine and get laid/mm" vs "act horny and be seen as an AFC doing GWM". This threads result has been annoying me since I seen it a while back.

Anyone who understands the systems would clearly see the answer as obvious. But hell there are probably people voting who don't know real GWM or MM at all just the stereotypes, so I figured I would try to educate some of them, or at least give food for thought on poorly done routines and DHVs that seem super common (even more than years back!) amongst so called pure "MM practitioners" who while I ain't Mystery, I can say are even doing MM wrong, because they aren't working any control of the frame, and are blabbing out inappropriately timed and delivered DHVs instead.

Gun