Now before I get started, let me state that when I get involved with any woman, I look for her to have at least one or two close friendships with another woman. A woman with ZERO female friends is a big red flag, and is rarely good for more than a pump and dump. However, especially in college, women with a vast majority of straight male friends is quite common.

So enter S, my current #1. S (who also happens to be bisexual) was a girl I actually dated for a short time earlier this year, but was long distance and she put on a good front. Now, for the last two months, she's actually been going to the same school as me, and I've gotten to meet most of her "friends". Her two "Best friends", W and D, are two guys that share an apartment together, and are her stoner buddies (I don't smoke pot). Her other best friend is a girl, J. When S and I first started fucking again, I asked about W&D and why she always goes there "to cuddle" and she said "it's not like that with them, they're my best friends". She also remarked the day she got back "You and A (good friend of mine that fucked her years ago) are in the friendzone" well the day after that comment I blew that away... then a week later so did he after I shunned her for a date with a different girl. Fast forward to last weekend, where I managed to coax out of her that she DID actually fuck W&D on separate occasions, and she talked about how sex with D "was lousy, and only happened once" while mentioning nothing of W. So, whatever, a single girl can do what she wants right? Nothing wrong with giving guys a chance to break the friendzone. I know for a FACT that I give her better sex than any of these guys, which is why she's always coming to my place and fucking me on those lonely nights. Why do I care about the beta orbiters?

Well, here's the shit that bothers me. When I am hanging out with her and W/D/A are around, she is basically all over THEM. Flirting with them, trying to get their attention, tickling, touching, playing, etc. Now part of our FWB agreement is keeping it hush-hush, but she's not even like this with me when it's just the two of us. It's like she does it to piss me off, or make me jealous. W&D especially she is almost always hanging out with, and she even said "I can snap my fingers and make those boys do whatever I want". I don't really complain about a woman with a lot of guy friends, as in college it's very common. But doesn't this sound very insecure to you guys? She befriended W's romantic partner and has brought her over to my place more than once.

For example, just tonight she was supposed to come over about 9. Right before that, my (female) friend asked me to hang out later tonight, so I told S to hurry up because my other friend was coming over later. About 20 minutes later she cancels because now her and D are doing hw together.

See, it's really strange. I mean... she gets really jealous of my friendships with other girls, asks about who I'm involved with constantly... yet continues to bait her orbiters on as well. How am I supposed to believe that when she hangs out with them that nothing happens? She lied about the friendzone and her friendship with W&D right off the bat, and now that I've gotten her to trust me more she's revealed that she did fuck them. And she DOES have a couple girlfriends, but are they nothing more than pushovers? Shit, I did get into a threesome with her and J a week or so ago... and while I was fucking J, S went into a little ball admitting that she was uncomfortable later. I want to believe she's falling for me again, that she does like me, but this flirty / leading on orbiters behavior is really unattractive. Her and I do all kinds of couple-type shit together, and I admit I definitely have feelings for her / falling for her again. So do I stick it out, or is this just a trainwreck waiting to happen?

"I can snap my fingers and make those boys do whatever I want"? What a manipulative bitch.

This is deeper than her best friends being guys. They are guys who have fucked her. She lied about it and came clean about it later. What else do you think she's lying about and will fess up to later?

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"Let me ask you something. If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?"

This is all about frame control my friend. Your reality has to win here or yes, it will end in a trainwreck. That is if you think this girl is worth the hassle. She doesn't sound like quality.


For example:
The current girl I am dating has orbiters but she does not say shit like that to me. She has mentioned she had options and I just changed the subject because it was uninteresting to me. So in the end, go for it if you know what you are doing, if not, you will be back on these forums in a bad way.

but honestly, I would say go for it, an alpha male is adaptable and you might get a learning experience from all of this.

What about plain and simple telling what you feel? wouldnt that be the bomb. the best way to know, straightforward.

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"Stop being a fucking vagina and escalate" - CaptainJackHarkness

Like the naked leads the blind.
I know I'm selfish, I'm unkind.
Sucker love I always find,
Someone to bruise and leave behind.
placebo - every me, every you

This. Forget about her satellites and just end the game one way or another. The important thing is not the outcome, but that you showed her you can put your foot down and make a decision. If she goes with it, great, if not, that's awesome too. The important thing is not to lose your respect.

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The Epic Way to Find Things To Do | http://kokohub.com

To be honest, it seems like she's really in to you, but she's got her game all messed up.

She is trying to create reactions from you by flirting with her orbiters, and make you jealous. She agrees to a threeway, but gets jealous during it (she did not plan for that) and curls up in a ball. Basically, she is trying too hard to create a frame of you being the one "chasing after" her, but you're still very much in control and she doesn't know how to handle it.

If you keep this up, there's no telling what she'll do to enhance her frame. Actually sitting down with her to discuss the relationship might be the best way to approach this.

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Alea iacta est - The die has been cast

Tend to find chicks with only guy friends are either sluts or mindfuckers. No F-close on first meet = no further contact.

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It came to me in a drreeeaaammmm

"Manipulative Bitch" was running through my mind already. I was involved with another girl like this over the summer, "I'm just a hopeless flirt" yet as soon as one of the guys in the group showed disinterest she was all over him. I was her main, yet her affection towards me (in public) was rather limited. "Guys are less drama" she claimed, seemingly unaware that most of these "guy friends" just wanted to get in her pants.

I'm a bit surprised that the majority advice is actually sitting down and talking about it. I did actually send her a text last night how what she said "snap my fingers" was unattractive, but didn't really get into it. Another element that complicates the situation, is that she's still talking to her #1 off/on ex boyfriend (who lives 10 hours away) so I feel like any real expresses of attention/affection or admitting her flirting with orbiters in front of me bothers me will be admitting that she's winning "the game". The only way I can "win" over the orbiters (I already have) but more importantly #1 ex is with incredible sex. When we dated, SHE broke up with me... so I don't want to express intentions of exclusivity or getting back together.

I agree with the observations Dice made about the frame. I can tell she's trying to frame control with the orbiters, because they are chasing after her like no other. I'm guessing the other women the orbiters are around see this and despise S for her behavior. I know my frame control is driving her crazy, and the only guy who has been able to do it better was #1 ex. So I think what I'll do soon is when I get good timing I'll discuss how unattractive I find her when she flirts with W/D/A in front of me, and if she keeps it up then I'm out. I actually am afraid to lose this girl, but I front otherwise pretty well. I've thought about it and I certainly enjoy the game... and if nothing else, she's keeping my dick busy until I manage to close something better.

I did take some advice and brought it up, although it was via text. To summary the actions of this week:

Tuesday she came over alone, long massage but no sex.

Wednesday I directly propositioned her - she agreed at first, but later cancelled.

Thursday, we had lunch. Nothing happened, but she was pretty high and there was some tension to conversation.

Later that day, we had an awkward phone call. I sent her a text after that apologizing if I came off as a jerk lately, saying she had been moody and distant this week. She sent me the following:

"We're friends, (Me). Not in a relationship. Your wants and wishes do not dictate my actions, nor the other way around. You're constantly pushing for more, whether it's time spent together or what. It bugs the hell out of me. And you keep calling me when you know I'd prefer a text, and that I usually prefer a warning text so I can get away from people and not be rude. You always want to know everything, and ask a million questions, and you're not satisfied and sound irritated when I don't have the answers, which pisses me off and makes me not want to talk to you at all. // You're like obsessing and its not fair. You wanted to hang out with me more, said I could bring my friends over. Then you complained about it. Nothing I do is ever the right thing, no matter what it is, and you're not the only stressor in my life"

My Reply:
"The calling thing, okay I'll just text. I ask questions mostly to have conversation... I don't need or want to know what you're doing all the time. I'm sorry that I make you feel that way, I really don't mean to. The only reason I don't like hanging out with you +D/W or even A is because it feels like you're trying to play us all against each other with the flirting and cuddling and whatnot. I know we're just friends... but as I've said before once you've slept with someone the dynamic of that friendship changes. I can tell it bothers you when I talk about or do things with women, that's why I don't flaunt it especially in front of you."

Her: "K. Well I'm busy now so ttyl"
Me (3 hours later): "Thank you for being honest with me. Would you like to talk about it later tonight?"
Her: "No."

I haven't contacted her today, nor vice versa. My gut is telling me to just stop contacting her, as I'm willing to bet that while I'm receiving mixed signals, we don't want the same thing. What do you guys think (I should do)?

get out early when you can, if she feels that you're making her uncomfortable it will just make it worse, truth is you already sound weak by your last message. I'd wait for her to contact first, otherwise any more pursuing the subject will push her away further and make you chase harder. look for something else.

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Inner game is ALL you need, then create your own routine

Thanks for the encouragement, I almost texted her today but stopped myself. It's a bitch. Wish I could stop caring about this girl and just see her as a sex object.

When you say my last message, you mean the one thanking her for honesty? Because yeah, that did feel weak after I sent it. I didn't think there was anything wrong with the one before it, although it did reflect some insecurity and jealousy. If someone's my FWB, I really should have no say who else they sleep with, but I think that I do have some right to know IF... especially since we haven't been using condoms lately (yes, I know...). And for the record, me being uncomfortable with her flirting with other guys in front of me is a big sign that I have feelings isn't it?

So glad I figured out the power of "no contact". Fast forward to 12am last night, she messages me claiming I pocket dialed her (I did) then asks if she can come over and take a bath. Asks "can we have fun n relax without having 'fun'?" and I agree... yet come around 3am a sex marathon begins

So maybe less insisting on sex, and more just "letting it happen"? Question though... since I doubt she's going to stop flirting with her orbiters in front of me, how should I react when she does? Just pretend it doesn't bother me?

i didnt mean that you were weak because of your honesty, i should of said you appeared weak to me because of the way she responded how you always pursue her and raise the topic of whats going on between u two is making her uncomfortable and pushing her away, big turn off, I was in this situation before and never won the girl back but at the time I didn't realise, now its too late. thing is, when youre attached, which I was, and clearly you are the mind doesn't think straight and behave in a needy way which requires a higher emotional control. personally, in those situations im wise enough to just let my trusted experienced friends guide me coz i would give the same advice to someone in my situation having not being in the attachement. and see, how you didn't text her got her to reply and come over...you're redeeming youself, once you take away the attention they come running back if you fucked them before. if i was u, i would take the thought of relationship out of my head because that will make u chase her, focus on other girls and see how much more jealous and attention seeking she will be towards you, if she moves on...hey, well at least you're seeing other girls now, treat her differently, keep it pressure free with the texting, let her text u first, if u decide u wanna text her, dont be too pushy, no more than hi's hellos and take it easily for there, if she starts acting bitchy or in a way you don't like, you can simply say or u dont even have to but u can say "not looking to argue with you" or "u didnt need to give me that attitude" and just STOP, dont text her until she does, see if she dares do it again, when back in contact, dont raise the issue, just STOP again until she either doesnt talk again or stop it with the attitude....this way you will always be in control and your weakness will turn into strength, thats how she'd see u...which is ofcourse more attractive....but is it a relationship you're after or fuck buddies?

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Inner game is ALL you need, then create your own routine

ps. attachement is a bitch, i never let my self get attached, fuccckkk that, no doubt you're attached, just trust me, in situations like this if you can't control your emotions the best option is to get out, it won't get easier for you from here and when you do I will refuse to give you advice later, like my close friends did to me, I deserved it...I kept hurting myself and let people around me down....I personally don't think this girl is worth it, she clearly knows how you feel about her but doesn't care if you're hurt, sure she still likes you but don't expect her to be the good caring type....I don't blame you for caring about her, and glad for you you mentioned that you wish you didnt care so much means your heart is leading you one way but your brain is still functioning, always follow your brain....this girl seems like good for fucking only, she doesn't deserve any more better SPAM than the dick, look for other girls, now that you're getting laid, you have that subconcious confidence that will attract girls, just please please please please do manhood a favour and dont fall for this girl....i hate to watch a fellow dude suffer my pain, even though I don't personally know u

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Inner game is ALL you need, then create your own routine

I agree with your posts 100% Lava. I can tell I'm getting attached, and me acting jealous or complaining about her flirting with orbiters is just showing it. I'm trying to adopt this mentality:

"Do whatever you want. I'm the best you're going to get, both as a friend or in bed. You're not relationship material, so I don't care what happens as long as you don't give me an STD."

Right now I definitely like the getting laid part because it's certainly helping my confidence with other girls - I've been approaching like mad lately. Who cares if I get rejected? I can still fuck my ex. Live an learn. But like I said, I would say what do you when a girl (you like and/or are sexual with) gets heavy flirting with other guys? This isn't the first time it's happened with me, and I find a lot of these girls just like to validate their egos and love the attention... it makes them seem low quality when they do it. I know the "alpha thing" to do is just NOT REACT and not give a shit... but what specifically would an alpha do? Give attention elsewhere? Certainly not pay her or the other guy any attention right?

Developing that alpha mentality... I can tell that's the most important part of inner game, period. Simply, not giving a fuck when you know you shouldn't. After my last LTR ended in Feb, I didn't really give a shit or pursue relationships with any of the girls I subsequently slept with and guess what? They all wanted me to be their boyfriend at some point.