I'm on the verge of having group sex (MMFF) with my partner (exgf/fwb/bi) and another couple who is in an open relationship. As an rAFC, I want to know some alpha guidelines for this situation. My partner seems VERY interested in the other guy, and she's (IMO) the clearly more attractive of the two girls. Not sure if the other girl is into me, either. I'm the leader in this situation - my idea, my place, the other couple was my choice, etc. As my relationship with my partner is pretty unstable at the moment, I'd like to know any advice or tips to make sure that the end result of this isn't me losing my partner to the other couple completely. I feel a bit jealous/insecure when my partner fawns over the other guy.

All the other cards play out right logistically. All four of us are comparably attractive, not in closed relationships, enough strangers in case of weird shit. Probably the big problem is that my partner/exgf "isn't supposed to be alone with me" cause she's in a pseudo-LTR with a guy who hates me. Her and I have been fwb for the last 5 weeks or so off and on, and she feels guilty a lot of the time for having casual sex, especially with me. Her way around this? Group sex, possibly BDSM. The other couple has been together for about 8 months and seem quite happy, but like I said open relationship. Bunch of dirty hippies, all of us

WTF?

The only thing I can really say is that A) this sounds kind of hot actually, and B) it's probably a bad idea.

_________________
“Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!” ~Audrey Hepburn

Probably a bad idea, but you should definitely do it.

My buddy did a MMFF fourway once. And the other couple was less attractive and they became extremely clingy, to the point of not wanting to leave. How awkward is that?

_________________
“Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!” ~Audrey Hepburn

Don't listen to these haters. Group sex is awesome. It also provides a great way to 1) fulfill one of your girl's fantasies and 2) DHV yourself by being able to handle the situation in an alpha manner.

Now, first, does the other couple know the deal? Do they swing together often? It will make your job much easier if that's the case. Second, do you ever have problems getting / keeping it up? The one biggest issue I see with new guys in a swinger situation is that they can't perform with another guy in the area. If you think this might be an issue, then scrap the idea immediately.

Mindset: Sex is a fun activity, everybody enjoys having sex with new partners.. the whole point of this is for your girl to enjoy herself. You are providing this experience for her. Her happiness directly benefits you. That being said, don't be surprised if she REALLY enjoys herself. Having multiple partners at the same time is a huge turn on for most people.

Mindset about the other guy: You two are on a team and your goal is to give these girls as many orgasms as possible. Don't be afraid to work in tandem or take the lead now and then to make suggestions and reposition people. Have fun. Stop every once in awhile to give each other high fives!

Lastly, make a point to stay connected with your girl throughout the experience. Don't just swap partners. Interact with her as much as you can during the experience. When your having sex with the other girl, make a point to make out with your girlfriend, or to fondle her in some way (depending on positioning). If your girlfriend is out of reach, then repositioning yourself. Swinging is all about having sexy fun AS A COUPLE.

Anyway, I hope some of that helps.

-Wolf

_________________
Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html

Logistical question. Can you get the girls to double up on you threesome-style? Or does the other dude have to be involved the whole time too? I assume it would be mainly watching the girls lesbo out on each other, then switching off and fucking each girl separately. I somehow doubt that you'd be dp'ing the girls, meaning no mmf action, since that is mainly done in porn.

_________________
“Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!” ~Audrey Hepburn

As far as the problems getting/keeping it up, I do have a couple "enhancement supplements" in case of that scenario. I actually made a topic about my performance anxiety. Personally, I've done MF/MF same room before, and live porn is really hot. I've also fantasized about watching my girl (and my ex's before her) get slammed, but not sure how it would feel to watch it happen. I asked her "How would it feel to watch me fuck (other girl)?" "I wouldn't watch... lol". Speaking of my girl, she's done FFM a few times, and MF/MF same room as I have. Right now she's mostly excited about getting attention from multiple partners, since her threesomes before mainly involved straight girls that she and her partner would entertain or they both please the guy. Once or twice, her guy would focus too much on the third girl and leave his girl upset/left out. That's part of the reason I set this up, is the DHV aspect - while partly I'm a little jealous of her guy crush, ultimately she should understand I'm the one making this happen and bringing her pleasure. I've also done a shitload of homework on group sex over the years, and have an understand what to do and not to do (like keeping contact with your main partner). I told her that I'm okay with an MMF threesome (with the DP option open) but I MUST get my FFM first. Don't want to risk my first threesome (in case shit gets weird) being an MMF. She agreed, and said she's not okay with full MMF with the other guy yet anyways - totally understandable.

As far as the other guy, I only spoke to him briefly in private. I mentioned that this arrangement if done correctly, we would each also do threesomes while someone took a break. He mentioned he'd talk to his girl about it (pretty sure they haven't swung before, maybe FFM though) and he definitely seemed interested. I know he's been eyeing my girl around campus for awhile now. The other night when they were over, I led the interaction with a sort of couples massage thing to help break the ice. The only concern really at this point is his girlfriend - she seems to be the "timid one" in this situation.

For the guys saying it's a bad idea, yeah you're probably right. However, I see it as everything to gain, at the risk of losing my partner. Who isn't even "mine" to begin with. That's the big discrepancy here; exgf/fwb isn't the same status as open relationship. I technically already lost her when she broke up with me months ago and started talking to her LDR ex again. This guy fucked up his last FFM with her (she ended up crying in the shower), and actually left her to date the other girl! Either way, this will be another secret she has to keep from him, and (as you may have guessed) she keeps going back to her exLDR because he's given her the "best sex she's ever had"... even though when they met she "taught him everything he knows".

Um, okay, that's sounds a little better. You at least have a grasp of all the variables and are taking some control. The other girl is just timid and needs to be led into it. It's not that she doesn't want to do it.

The insecurities will destroy the whole thing, so as the leader, you need to be mindful of that and stomp out those fires as soon as they appear. Don't let anyone sit on the sidelines too long, even if they say they want to. Women will get emotional about shit, and she'll step out for a second, then before you know it she doesn't come back and you find her crying in the shower.

I really hate saying this, but involve alcohol in this scenario. I'm sure you guys are already stoners, but you need to get these girls a little tipsy because it will make things a lot smoother. This isn't a crutch because this isn't pick up at this point. It's just fucking. Get them drunk, but not too drunk.

_________________
“Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!” ~Audrey Hepburn

Involving alcohol was a given. I personally don't drink or smoke, but I know a drink or two can help loosen inhibitions as long as nobody actually drunk.

Keep in mind here, "my girl" is my ex girlfriend and we fuck in secret. She swears up and down to people that we aren't fucking anymore, then this kind of shit happens.

Funny you mention the sidelines thing... because the craziest thing happened last night. See if you can make sense of this. I was hanging out with my girl and her chick friend J last night, and my girl asked me to give them both massages. I started on my girl, but she was tired and insisted I massage J. We were all in the same room. Well things got heavy with J and I, she was DTF but I told her "not yet" as I wanted to make sure my girl was okay with it, and had her shot first (I'd rather fuck my girl anyways). At this point, I asked my girl if she was still awake and said it was her turn to be massaged. After massaging my girl for awhile and realizing she wasn't DTF (attributing this to her period) I whispered in her ear "You mind if I fuck J?" "That's up to her". I went ahead and fucked J for a bit, and my girl basically curled into a ball but didn't say anything. Afterwards, I laid down between them and was playing with both, and J started sucking my dick to get me hard again. I insisted it was my girl's turn, but she refused again. As soon as J got on top of me, my girl turned away and said "no, you're busy now" - I protested this for awhile, but decided to just fuck the crap out of J for the next hour. The whole time, my girl just laid there in silence under the blankets. At the end of it (about 3am), I cuddled up against my girl and trying playing with her again but we just went to sleep. When I woke up (around 6am) I started playing with my girl again and she got pretty turned on. When she noticed J had went to sleep in another room, foreplay got heavy and she got up to take her tampon out, then we fucked for a little while. She was absolutely loving it. After I came, we got up and found J and all three of us were cuddling/playing for a bit, and J got up to get in the shower. I pinned my girl facedown and after a short massage I started fucking her from behind, but this only lasted a minute because J opened the bathroom door and my girl quickly pushed me off. My girl got in the shower with J and that was the end of it.

This was really strange to me. Probably the closest to a threesome I've had yet... but does it really count? I wanted to involve them both at the same time, but it seemed like my girl didn't want her friend to know that her and I were fucking at all. J even talked about how hot it would be if I was going between the both of them (a la porn style). And as soon as I was fucking J, my girl went into a little cocoon. She chalked this up to thinking about her exLTR guy, who had been in my shoes in the past with these two girls.

MOST importantly, I wonder if this is a predictor of problems to come should the four-way happen. For some reason, it seems my girl can't separate sex and relationships or something. Do you think me fucking J next to her actually bothered her? What puaninja said about women getting emotional made me think. So confusing. J told me later that when they did this before with exLTR, she didn't actually fuck him cause it got weird how that guy was focusing more on J than my girl.

NICE! I think you are fine. The fact that she didn't cause any REAL drama over you having sex with J is a great indicator that things will be fine. Your girl probably needs to sort out her own issues/emotions regarding fucking around (I'm sure being on her period didn't help this), but I think you handled the situation as well as can be expected. You checked on her before and afterwards, and initiated sexual activity as soon as you had the chance. This kind of thing happens from time to time, even my girlfriend has done this too me before and she normally treats me like a king.

-Wolf

_________________
Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html

Good to know, I thought I handled myself the best I could. It was just strange that she seemed insistent on hiding us fucking from J. Oh well, girls and their secrets. Let's see how you do with the next chapter.

So basically now, not feeling too optimistic about the four way. Last night, hung out with my friend N (the other guy) and my girl. After a long one-on-one talk, N said that he didn't get a chance to talk to his girl yet and wasn't really cool with anything at this point. He didn't want to fuck up their relationship by doing anything without consent, and the "open" status had only lasted 3 weeks so far compared to the 8mo relationship. The gist of it sounded like he really loves his girlfriend, and didn't want to mess around with any other girl until she was back in town and gave the okay.

We also talked about the nature of my girl and I's "relationship" - see original post. Another point, it was pretty clear she was showing him a lot of interest. When the night was getting to a close, she insisted on me "showing N some massage techniques" but he declined, and offered to excuse himself so we could be alone. But rather, my girl insisted he walk her home. The next day, I asked him if anything happened and he denied, and said "I don't really want to fuck her, I got my girl you know? This girl sounds like she's making you miserable, you gotta drop that bitch" then proceeded to give a surprising quite insightful and honest opinion about her from what little he learned the night previously.

We'll see what happens, but I'm not getting my hopes up. At least I got a "threesome" (was it technically?) out of it.