Hey there my name is Steve and I've known about pickup for quite a few years. I used to do some sarging a few years ago but more recently have been preoccupied with other ares of life improvement. It's something I've been meaning to get into and I pretty much know how to refresh my skills, but I'm posting here about a specific question.

I am bisexual and have sarged both guys and girls in the past and I'm still pretty fresh on all the theory that revolves around meeting strangers; however this question applies to a friend of mine that I've known for maybe a little over a year but just in the past few months we've become closer.

Usually when I find myself attracted to one of my guy friends I pop the question about his sexuality and let him know that I'm interested. Usually he is straight and takes the question as a compliment and politely declines the offer. This time however I'm dealing with a friend who is a lot more shy and easily "tripped out" by a lot of things and upon speaking to some of his closest friends about my feelings toward him I've been aptly recommended against bringing up the question with him directly.

He's invited me over for a swim tomorrow (or later today depending on your time zone I guess... I mean it's about 10 minutes to 5am over here) and I'm getting tired of my hormones going nuts whenever I'm around him and I'd just like to find out for sure whether or not he's gay so I can pursue the relationship or move on.

My question for you guys would be, how would be the best way to go about doing this? I haven't been able to find very many forums or information specifically tailored to guy on guy pickup and a lot of the theory regarding picking up strangers doesn't apply. My best guest as to what I should is to try do some flirt-neutral attraction builders to see if he bites at any of the bait and maybe some research on gay community forums as to how different people have had success in probing to see if their friends were gay.

If anyone has any experience with this or suggestions I would be very grateful if you could share. Also if anyone can think of (or link to) any specific routines they think might be really good to try in this type of situation I would again be appreciative and will likely give them a try tomorrow (I'm still saying tomorrow because I'm about to go to bed).

Lastly I noticed that in the last couple of weeks he's been trying to make an effort to hang out with just the two of us as opposed to having any of our other guy friends around so I figure if he is gay/bi then he's probably doing (I guess) his closest equivalent of making a move (again he's a really shy guy, so I know that even if he was gay he would NEVER make the first move; I just don't want to freak him out by asking him directly as several of his closest friends have warned me against that; and I definitely don't want to hit on him to bluntly and make him uncomfortable) and I don't want to fall into a permanent friend zone.... although I'm wondering if it works the same way for guy-on-guy as it does for guy-on-girl? A lot of the gay couples I know were friends for a long time before they started dating....


Thanks for taking the time to read guys and gals and I really sincerely appreciate your help. If this isn't the right place to ask this kind of stuff, I'm sorry and if anyone can point me in the right direction I'd be happy to look there. Sadly, whenever I've asked any type of question like this outside of a pickup community, everyone seems to be completely clueless as to any of the theory involved in attraction or otherwise related (and I don't expect to gain much insight from researching people's success with probing their friend's sexuality).

Not to bump the topic, but is it that no one really knows how to suggest help in this situation or just that people are generally disinterested because it's guy-on-guy pickup?

I can't speak exactly, because I've never been in a similar situation, but I would suggest talking to him about girls. Any regular guy chatter: them being attractive, who you would bang, about previous bangs. Maybe go to a bar with him (casual scene) and put alcohol into equation. See if he reacts to any girls there.

Him trying to hang out with just you isn't too atypical. I have a couple guy friends who I occasionally prefer to spend time with without other friends. Just a manly exchange of energy

Do your mutual friends have no idea about his preferences? I live in a very liberal city so here it's pretty normal to question sexuality directly. In my opinion, however, shouldn't there be some clues- physical, verbal, behavioral- to whether he's interested in men?

_________________
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I also live in a very liberal city where it's a normal question to ask directly, and in the past that's always how I've addressed the issue. And I would do the same in this case if I had not been so heavily warned by more than a few of his closest friends.

I realize wanting to hang out with a certain guy friend one on one is not atypical. What I was thinking is, if he's straight it obviously means nothing; if he ISN'T straight, he might be trying to hint at something. I will definitely do what you were suggesting about getting into girl chatter with him. That sounds like a good way to get closer towards that subject of discussion and maybe the subject will come up organically. I don't think I would need to completely avoid asking the question but I definitely can't bring it up out of the blue.

Yeah I definitely agree with you.

While you're there escalating toward the question, I would also create a situational frame of being nonjudgmental, trusting, and understanding. That if he IS attracted to men, he can trust to tell you and that you will understand and won't judge him for it (not saying you would or that you aren't those things, but to just put things into that frame). Perhaps tell him some stories (true or not) where you showed those qualities.
Maybe tell him something personal (can also make this up) to show that you trust him and push him towards trusting you.

I would also consider, when the situation feels right and there is enough rapport, to hint at you being attracted to men. If he is also attracted to men, he will say so. If he's not, he won't think that you had the intent of seducing him, and will just take it as a fact about you. After this, you can show that you're not attracted to him as a sexual partner but rather as a friend, and all is well. Nothing much to lose either way. You popping the question would result in him knowing that you had the sexual intent toward him and could freak him out.

_________________
A morning of awkwardness is far better than a night of loneliness.

18 Body Language Mistakes I Bet You're Making

Thanks. This was really quite helpful and exactly what I was looking for in terms of advice. The plan to go swimming ended up flopping on account of him having to help some relatives move, but this gave me a really good basis to work off of and addressed the elements that I needed the most help with.

Wow... actually looking over that again I'm really impressed that all came from one person. I was expecting to kind of have to dig something like that out from a bunch of different posts. Thanks again.