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 Post subject: New school, new rules
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:27 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:34 am
Posts: 6
I am a virgin. For the longest time, I've told myself that it's because I have standards and I'm not interested in drunk women at parties who I've never met. While this is true, it's no excuse for my continued and complete failure with all women. I cannot even get dates, it is miserable. (Yes, I literally get turned down on asking girls out 100% of the time. I've had two dates in the last 5 years, and both of them asked me.)

I recently started college and I think that there has come a point where I just need to get laid. I still want to avoid the random drunk chick scenario, because I want to be with someone I at least know slightly and/or trust to an extent. (Or at very least, I want to feel like I earned it. This is also what has prevented me buying a prostitute.)

I live with a female roommate who I find very attractive and have grown very close to very quickly, but I followed my normal pattern of landing in the friend zone. At this point I have also realized that she needs to be off my radar simply because she is not interested.

I have also always had a moral objection to pick up artists and this kind of behavior. Generally, I feel like "playing the game" is wrong and I should be able to find someone by being myself and being friendly. Obviously this is untrue. In addition, after reading some of what is posted on this forum, I am rethinking my opinion. I still hate that we live in a world where I have to play a game in order to establish any kind of a real relationship, but most of you guys seem like genuine real guys. It seems like playing the game is just a tool in order to establish the real relationship. As much as I dislike it, I think it's time I learn to play. (Small aside, I still might need convincing on the value of "negs". It seems like an awful trick to make someone feel bad in order to manipulate them.)

My skills:
-I am very social and I have practiced hard to be able to avoid awkwardness in any conversation. I can speak about anything with anyone and make them feel absolutely comfortable, even in a first conversation usually.
-I have excellent leadership skills. I am able to convince people of many things fairly easily.
-I have supreme confidence in my own ability to achieve anything I believe in. Sometimes this comes in short bursts, but it's there when I need it.
-I am always open to changing myself. One of my core values is that I can always change anything I dislike about myself and become a stronger/better person by doing so.
-I have practice in business type situations where I have to rapidly meet lots of people and immediately sell them things.
-I am a potent public speaker. I am able to speak easily in front of groups, and just in general present myself well as someone leading a group.
-In a 1on1 conversation, I have a unique ability to make people trust me and gain access to their deepest secrets and etc. I have tried and tested the following: I can walk up to any stranger and learn anything about them within three hours of conversation.
-I learn very quickly and I love games. I think if I view this as a game and play it accordingly, I will be able to acquire skills.

My weaknesses:
-I lack confidence when trying to attract women. (Obviously, or I probably wouldn't be here.)
-I tend to ask for approval instead of demanding respect.
-I fear insulting women that I am interested in.
-I am only moderately attractive and only moderately willing to change. (I will change my behaviors, but I won't devote my life to working out or switch to contacts or etc. I also cannot afford to buy new clothes, although I think the ones I have are good.) I would rate myself a 6/10 - basically an average nerdy guy, but not disgusting or off-putting.
-I completely fail to understand group social dynamics. Whenever confronted with multiple people at once, I have no idea how to interact and I cannot keep a decent conversation thread going. If I'm the center of attention, it's fine and I can enthrall a group with funny stories or entertaining anecdotes. But trying to blend into a party or other group frustrates and confuses me.
-I get uncomfortable when I drink significantly. I am not opposed to alcohol, but I tend to stop drinking after 3-5 drinks. When I get light headed and/or sick to my stomach, I just don't want to drink any more. Consequently, I haven't ever been actually drunk. I just get a good buzz going and then tend to be the sober guy in the group who drives everyone home later.
-People can sense that I'm a virgin at a mile distance, I have no idea how and it pisses me off. Many women immediately turn away from me as soon as someone tells them as well.


My Goals:
-I want to have sex. I do not know the best way to go about this or what I should expect from a first experience. Ideally, I would rather have sex with someone I trust and who can teach me how to be the best lover I can be. (I actually have some friends who have shown me quite a bit, and I feel like I would be excellent for a first timer, but I still imagine a scenario where I'm with an understanding girl who can show/tell me what she wants.)
-I would love to have a caring relationship. I don't really want to find "the one", but I would like to have someone to share with in the short term and a consistent sexual partner. Most of the girls who have shown interest in me lately are the virgin girls who don't even understand their own sexuality or what they want. Also, the shy or damaged girls who just want someone strong to hold onto. Both of these archetypes disgust me.
-I want to gain confidence in dealing with women. (Note: As long as I'm not actively trying to attract a woman, I am absolutely fine. I can easily become interact with and become friends with a variety of women, and I also do very well at selling them things. I spent the last year working a job in sales where I sold things to primarily women very successfully.)
-I do NOT want to have sex with a Cougar. Many people have suggested that I accept the invitation of one of the local "man-makers" who have shown interest in me or that I just need to do what it takes to not be a virgin so that I can start attracting women for real. I find older women rather disgusting and I want to find someone close to my own age. (Up to 30 is probably fine, it's the 35-45 year olds that really turn me off.)

The Plan:
I plan to start by completing a modified version of the Newbie Mission. Instead of going to a mall, I plan to simply spend time at my college campus. Instead of just saying "hi" to women, I plan to begin conversations with literally everyone that passes. (I'm in a new place and could use some friends anyway.) Do you think this is acceptable, or do I need to avoid my college campus? Although in reality, I don't think there is anywhere in a college town that I could avoid the same set of girls.

I also welcome any and all advice on how best to proceed. I am too old and too skilled to continue being so inept. I want females to recognize how amazing I am, and I am finally willing to change myself in order to make that happen. Please help me if you can. I need the full tutorial from the very beginning.


Last edited by PicklesNFish on Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:20 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:34 am
Posts: 6
I'm having great success meeting people, but I don't know when it's appropriate to ask for phone numbers or etc.


Last edited by PicklesNFish on Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I need help.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:09 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:37 am
Posts: 3276
Quote:
I am a virgin. For the longest time, I've told myself that it's because I have standards and I'm not interested in drunk women at parties who I've never met. While this is true, it's no excuse for my continued and complete failure with all women. I cannot even get dates, it is miserable. (Yes, I literally get turned down on asking girls out 100% of the time. I've had two dates in the last 5 years, and both of them asked me.)
hey dude,
you say you can not get dates?
how many women have you asked out?, how did you do it?, what happened as a result?
Quote:
I recently started college and I think that there has come a point where I just need to get laid. I still want to avoid the random drunk chick scenario, because I want to be with someone I at least know slightly and/or trust to an extent. (Or at very least, I want to feel like I earned it. This is also what has prevented me buying a prostitute.)
how often are you meeting women, and getting to know them to the point where you trust them? you have to be open to letting new people into your life if you want to accomplish this, if you have less then 5 girls that you regularily talk to while being single, then you are obviously not open to new women getting to know you, or allowing yourself to become vulnerable
Quote:
I live with a female roommate who I find very attractive and have grown very close to very quickly, but I followed my normal pattern of landing in the friend zone. At this point I have also realized that she needs to be off my radar simply because she is not interested.
have you ever explained your situation, or asked her for help or asked her to wing you or anything?
Quote:
I have also always had a moral objection to pick up artists and this kind of behavior. Generally, I feel like "playing the game" is wrong and I should be able to find someone by being myself and being friendly. Obviously this is untrue. In addition, after reading some of what is posted on this forum, I am rethinking my opinion. I still hate that we live in a world where I have to play a game in order to establish any kind of a real relationship, but most of you guys seem like genuine real guys. It seems like playing the game is just a tool in order to establish the real relationship. As much as I dislike it, I think it's time I learn to play. (Small aside, I still might need convincing on the value of "negs". It seems like an awful trick to make someone feel bad in order to manipulate them.)
well, this is sort of a problem, a negative judgemental view on sex, often leads to a negative closed off sex life, sex is a natural thing, both guys and girls are compelled to get laid, it's part of our biology, the sooner you can accept that both men and women enjoy sex, and it isn't a big deal, the sooner you can get away from this whole, ''having sex is wrong!!'' paradigm,

you say you want to get girls by being yourself and being friendly, and that you think this isn't possible... but let me ask you this, are you truly being yourself?, are you truly exposing who you are to women in your life? or are you hiding behind friendly small talk and closing off from your ability to express yourself, hoping some girl makes herself vulnerable for you, so that you don't have to make yourself vulnerable for her, so that you can judge and be safe inside your comfort zone, and not have to risk being judged by others because of how you feel, how many women that you have had interest towards in the past have been well aware of this interest because you expressed this clear as day to them?, if that is who you are on the inside, you must learn to express this outwardly to the outside, or else you are not ''being yourself'' you are hiding yourself due to a fear of being judged once you make yourself vulnerable, you have to put yourself out there and take risks to get some form of reward, no risk = no reward, and girls tend to play it safe (at least the ones you probably want because they have plenty of guys willing to express themselves and take that risk and have no need to take any risks themselves)


I don't quite understand what the fascination is with negs, they are not a magic tool to get girls to like you, a neg is just a dis-qualifier to get a girl you don't know, to invest in talking with you, when she is trying to blow you off, or be rude, it is simply a dis-qualifier and has nothing to do with making girls feel bad, it is to challenge their ego so they question their own state of self esteem, nothing more

if you walk up to a girl, and her perception is, ''I'm too hot for this guy, he wants to sleep with me'' that is her ego talking, if you toss a neg at her such as ''hey, you're really cute, too bad I'm gay, or you'd so be my type'' it challenges her ego, and gives you a chance to talk to her, all of a sudden ''I'm too hot for this guy, he wants to sleep with me'' has be dis-qualified, she has no grounds to think this anymore, and it can shift her self esteem, from ''I'm so hot every guy wants me here'' to ''This guy isn't after me, why not?''

a neg is not a magic ticket to pussy, nor is the mystery method, getting that pussy comes from her liking you, and you having the courage to make yourself vulnerable and express your feelings, with your words and actions, and move things forward towards sex, a neg doesn't do this for you, and you will see failure more then success when putting it on the line at first, you must learn to deal with this, and not take it personally or as some indicator of self worth

you have said your standards are high, if you want high quality vagina, then you must be high quality yourself, or at least willing to go to the ends of the earth to find a high quality vagina that has interest in you, until you have full belief that belief that you are high quality, and the outside is in alignment with the inside, feeling high quality on the inside with low quality on the outside is just having a high self esteem with dillusions of a skill set that you do not possess, and having high quality on the outside, while possesing low self esteem on the inside, will lead you to feel un-entitled and lacking, you will lack the ability to lead things or believe that you could lead things, also leaving you high and dry for the most part

both the inner and the outer aspects of your self and your life can be improved
Quote:
My skills:
-I am very social and I have practiced hard to be able to avoid awkwardness in any conversation. I can speak about anything with anyone and make them feel absolutely comfortable, even in a first conversation usually.
-I have excellent leadership skills. I am able to convince people of many things fairly easily.
-I have supreme confidence in my own ability to achieve anything I believe in. Sometimes this comes in short bursts, but it's there when I need it.
-I am always open to changing myself. One of my core values is that I can always change anything I dislike about myself and become a stronger/better person by doing so.
-I have practice in business type situations where I have to rapidly meet lots of people and immediately sell them things.
-I am a potent public speaker. I am able to speak easily in front of groups, and just in general present myself well as someone leading a group.
-In a 1on1 conversation, I have a unique ability to make people trust me and gain access to their deepest secrets and etc. I have tried and tested the following: I can walk up to any stranger and learn anything about them within three hours of conversation.
-I learn very quickly and I love games. I think if I view this as a game and play it accordingly, I will be able to acquire skills.

My weaknesses:
-I lack confidence when trying to attract women. (Obviously, or I probably wouldn't be here.)
-I tend to ask for approval instead of demanding respect.
-I fear insulting women that I am interested in.
-I am only moderately attractive and only moderately willing to change. (I will change my behaviors, but I won't devote my life to working out or switch to contacts or etc. I also cannot afford to buy new clothes, although I think the ones I have are good.) I would rate myself a 6/10 - basically an average nerdy guy, but not disgusting or off-putting.
-I completely fail to understand group social dynamics. Whenever confronted with multiple people at once, I have no idea how to interact and I cannot keep a decent conversation thread going. If I'm the center of attention, it's fine and I can enthrall a group with funny stories or entertaining anecdotes. But trying to blend into a party or other group frustrates and confuses me.
-I get uncomfortable when I drink significantly. I am not opposed to alcohol, but I tend to stop drinking after 3-5 drinks. When I get light headed and/or sick to my stomach, I just don't want to drink any more. Consequently, I haven't ever been actually drunk. I just get a good buzz going and then tend to be the sober guy in the group who drives everyone home later.
-People can sense that I'm a virgin at a mile distance, I have no idea how and it pisses me off. Many women immediately turn away from me as soon as someone tells them as well.


My Goals:
-I want to have sex. I do not know the best way to go about this or what I should expect from a first experience. Ideally, I would rather have sex with someone I trust and who can teach me how to be the best lover I can be. (I actually have some friends who have shown me quite a bit, and I feel like I would be excellent for a first timer, but I still imagine a scenario where I'm with an understanding girl who can show/tell me what she wants.)
-I would love to have a caring relationship. I don't really want to find "the one", but I would like to have someone to share with in the short term and a consistent sexual partner. Most of the girls who have shown interest in me lately are the virgin girls who don't even understand their own sexuality or what they want. Also, the shy or damaged girls who just want someone strong to hold onto. Both of these archetypes disgust me.
-I want to gain confidence in dealing with women. (Note: As long as I'm not actively trying to attract a woman, I am absolutely fine. I can easily become interact with and become friends with a variety of women, and I also do very well at selling them things. I spent the last year working a job in sales where I sold things to primarily women very successfully.)
-I do NOT want to have sex with a Cougar. Many people have suggested that I accept the invitation of one of the local "man-makers" who have shown interest in me or that I just need to do what it takes to not be a virgin so that I can start attracting women for real. I find older women rather disgusting and I want to find someone close to my own age. (Up to 30 is probably fine, it's the 35-45 year olds that really turn me off.)

The Plan:
I plan to start by completing a modified version of the Newbie Mission. Instead of going to a mall, I plan to simply spend time at my college campus. Instead of just saying "hi" to women, I plan to begin conversations with literally everyone that passes. (I'm in a new place and could use some friends anyway.) Do you think this is acceptable, or do I need to avoid my college campus? Although in reality, I don't think there is anywhere in a college town that I could avoid the same set of girls.
talking to new people is a good start, and you don't have to do anything you don't want, but if you are expecting to fuck some perfect 10, with a personality of gold, when you realistically consider yourself a 6, and have trouble meeting new people and connecting with them, it could be a very long time before you lose your virginity unless you grow your skillsets at a rapid rate, and for that to happen, you seriously have to challenge your current belief system and step outside of what is comfortable for you, I get the vibe that your expectations for different results seem rather high, when your willingness to change seems rather low (willing to change as long as it is within the confines of your comfort zone)

it's madness to repeat the same task over and over again, and expect a different result, change has to occur, for something different to happen
Quote:
I also welcome any and all advice on how best to proceed. I am too old and too skilled to continue being so inept. I want females to recognize how amazing I am, and I am finally willing to change myself in order to make that happen. Please help me if you can. I need the full tutorial from the very beginning.
you already have an idea of what you want, you already have a plan for how to get it, give it a shot and take it one day at a time, see if you can reach your short term goals, check back in as you make progress to see if you can get some feedback/ideas on how you could speed things up

GOOD LUCK


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 Post subject: Re: I need help.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:34 am
Posts: 6
Quote:
hey dude,
you say you can not get dates?
how many women have you asked out?, how did you do it?, what happened as a result?
I've tried a few different approaches. I've tried meeting an interesting girl and immediately asking her out at the end of our first conversation.

I've tried hanging out with her for a while and being friendly before telling her I was interested and asking her out.

One girl I met at a charity auction. (She worked at the art gallery.) She posted on Facebook that she really wanted some silly cheap toy and would love anyone who brought her one. I came in to where she worked with said toy and asked her out after some flirting and etc.

I probably am not asking people out enough in general, but I don't find many women that are interesting to me in my every day life. It's better at my new location and I'm meeting a lot of new interesting people. All told though, I probably asked out less than two dozen girls in the last few years.
Quote:
how often are you meeting women, and getting to know them to the point where you trust them? you have to be open to letting new people into your life if you want to accomplish this, if you have less then 5 girls that you regularily talk to while being single, then you are obviously not open to new women getting to know you, or allowing yourself to become vulnerable
I have shit-tons of friends. Especially female friends. I have all kinds of conversations with all kinds of women and I have a few friends that I open up to when I need someone to talk to. (One in particular is an interesting situation. She and I actually really like each other and want to be together, but she is engaged. She really loves the guy she is engaged to and he's a nice guy. Even so, we almost had sex one time anyway. I just couldn't ruin a relationship for her though when she is so happy with him. We still talk all the time and she says things like "If I hadn't met [fiance] we would be together instead." She's a good friend though and I'm ok with that.)
Quote:
have you ever explained your situation, or asked her for help or asked her to wing you or anything?
Yes actually, and I think she is going to start winging for me. This arrangement should be profitable. I've also gotten over my "crush" on her. (Although I would still probably fuck her if the opportunity arose.)
Quote:
well, this is sort of a problem, a negative judgemental view on sex, often leads to a negative closed off sex life, sex is a natural thing, both guys and girls are compelled to get laid, it's part of our biology, the sooner you can accept that both men and women enjoy sex, and it isn't a big deal, the sooner you can get away from this whole, ''having sex is wrong!!'' paradigm,
I think you misunderstand. I don't have anything against sex and I agree that it's completely natural. I'm actually very open minded to many sexual things and differences of opinion. My problem is with "the game". I don't like that I have to play a stupid game and deceive women to get sex. I think that any two consenting adults who trust each other, care about each other, and both get horny, could have sex without regrets. It frustrates me that women who trust me implicitly and are single are horrified by the idea of having sex with me because "it would be wrong" and that I am going to have to learn to play games and trick them if I want to stop that from happening. (Because yes, I have asked most of my close female friends for sex at one point or another. I feel like two people who care about each other and are both horny should take care of each other's needs.)
Quote:
you say you want to get girls by being yourself and being friendly, and that you think this isn't possible... but let me ask you this, are you truly being yourself?, are you truly exposing who you are to women in your life? or are you hiding behind friendly small talk and closing off from your ability to express yourself, hoping some girl makes herself vulnerable for you, so that you don't have to make yourself vulnerable for her, so that you can judge and be safe inside your comfort zone, and not have to risk being judged by others because of how you feel, how many women that you have had interest towards in the past have been well aware of this interest because you expressed this clear as day to them?, if that is who you are on the inside, you must learn to express this outwardly to the outside, or else you are not ''being yourself'' you are hiding yourself due to a fear of being judged once you make yourself vulnerable, you have to put yourself out there and take risks to get some form of reward, no risk = no reward, and girls tend to play it safe (at least the ones you probably want because they have plenty of guys willing to express themselves and take that risk and have no need to take any risks themselves)
This is not the problem. I have no problem opening myself up to others and getting them to do the same.

Quote:
I don't quite understand what the fascination is with negs, they are not a magic tool to get girls to like you, a neg is just a dis-qualifier to get a girl you don't know, to invest in talking with you, when she is trying to blow you off, or be rude, it is simply a dis-qualifier and has nothing to do with making girls feel bad, it is to challenge their ego so they question their own state of self esteem, nothing more

if you walk up to a girl, and her perception is, ''I'm too hot for this guy, he wants to sleep with me'' that is her ego talking, if you toss a neg at her such as ''hey, you're really cute, too bad I'm gay, or you'd so be my type'' it challenges her ego, and gives you a chance to talk to her, all of a sudden ''I'm too hot for this guy, he wants to sleep with me'' has be dis-qualified, she has no grounds to think this anymore, and it can shift her self esteem, from ''I'm so hot every guy wants me here'' to ''This guy isn't after me, why not?''

a neg is not a magic ticket to pussy, nor is the mystery method, getting that pussy comes from her liking you, and you having the courage to make yourself vulnerable and express your feelings, with your words and actions, and move things forward towards sex, a neg doesn't do this for you, and you will see failure more then success when putting it on the line at first, you must learn to deal with this, and not take it personally or as some indicator of self worth
I'm still learning about negs and how that really works. I'll continue experimenting.
Quote:
you have said your standards are high, if you want high quality vagina, then you must be high quality yourself, or at least willing to go to the ends of the earth to find a high quality vagina that has interest in you, until you have full belief that belief that you are high quality, and the outside is in alignment with the inside, feeling high quality on the inside with low quality on the outside is just having a high self esteem with dillusions of a skill set that you do not possess, and having high quality on the outside, while possesing low self esteem on the inside, will lead you to feel un-entitled and lacking, you will lack the ability to lead things or believe that you could lead things, also leaving you high and dry for the most part
I'm learning the skills. Was there a purpose to this paragraph besides to attempt to insult me?
Quote:
both the inner and the outer aspects of your self and your life can be improved
This one aspect of my life needs work. Other aspects are developed as needed. I am very happy with the person that I am and I don't feel great need for improvement beyond in this area. (Which doesn't mean I won't continue to learn and grow in many areas, just that I'm quite happy with the person that I am now.)

Quote:
talking to new people is a good start, and you don't have to do anything you don't want, but if you are expecting to fuck some perfect 10, with a personality of gold, when you realistically consider yourself a 6, and have trouble meeting new people and connecting with them, it could be a very long time before you lose your virginity unless you grow your skillsets at a rapid rate, and for that to happen, you seriously have to challenge your current belief system and step outside of what is comfortable for you, I get the vibe that your expectations for different results seem rather high, when your willingness to change seems rather low (willing to change as long as it is within the confines of your comfort zone)
I don't care about getting a perfect 10. When I say I have high standards, I mean emotionally. I want to find a girl that I have some amount of trust for and/or one who has at least two brain cells to rub together. My roommate is probably a 6 (saggy boobs and slightly overweight). My friend who is engaged is probably a 5. (A bit overweight and not a very pretty face.) Although the engaged friend always looks like a 9 when I'm around here because her personality is so amazing and overwhelming, she seems more attractive than she is.

My point is, I want an intelligent girl or someone who I trust or care about. Physical attractiveness is less important to me in comparison.
Quote:
it's madness to repeat the same task over and over again, and expect a different result, change has to occur, for something different to happen
I agree, which is why I'm here.
Quote:
you already have an idea of what you want, you already have a plan for how to get it, give it a shot and take it one day at a time, see if you can reach your short term goals, check back in as you make progress to see if you can get some feedback/ideas on how you could speed things up

GOOD LUCK
I've got some results to report and some more questions actually. I've been meeting people around campus and I went to a party and met more people. All of my results have been positive and I've had no problem walking up to strangers and introducing myself and having conversations. However, I don't know how to proceed after chatting for a while. How do I advance the situation? How do I close? What kind of close should I be going for? Not knowing how to proceed, I've basically just left with first names when it was time for class. (And again, the responses have been positive and I'm sure I could resume communication with these women at a later time.)

Some examples:
-At lunch I sat down at a table with five girls and asked "is this seat taken?" I proceeded to talk to them and eat for 45 minutes and they invited me to each with them in the future. The one I was sitting next to was interesting to me and I would like to get somewhere with her, but I don't really know how to proceed. I kept them laughing at lunch and I'm sure that they will be happy to see me again.

-At another lunch, I sat down with one girl by herself. We had a few common interest and talked about college stuff. She told me about a game of Humans vs Zombies that will be starting soon. However, I ran out of topics and got a bit flustered. (Pretty uncommon for me, I'm not really sure what happened. Although she was quite hot.) She seemed bored and left "to go to class". I hope to see her again at the game, but this was by far my most negative experience of the week. I doubt I could salvage this one into anything more than casual friends.

-I have a class with a Chinese exchange student. She doesn't know anyone. I talked to her or a few minutes before class and she asked me to sit with her in the rest of the classes because she wants to be near someone she knows. This girl isn't seriously my type, but I am willing to pursue it for experience purposes. How should I proceed from the friend she is clinging to, to some kind of more physical relationship?

Best for last:
-I had dinner with some friends and met a girl there. (Gonna call her Girl X) We chatted for a while in the group setting and I got a few IoIs from her. (Some touches and looks. Girl X walked up behind me at one point and hugged my arm to her chest while she talked to me.) Then she and my friends smoked some pot before leaving for a party. (I don't partake, so I played a video game with another guy while they smoked.) When they came back, Girl X seemed more interested in me. She tried on a bunch of different outfits for the part and I flirted while giving her opinions of her outfits. Before we left, she asked if I was single. (I assume that's a very large IoI.) She also pointed out to all of us that she was going to the party in a short dress and leaving her underwear behind.

So then at the party things didn't go as well. Girl X was off getting drunk and I lost track of her. Other guys were also all over her and I didn't really have a chance to talk to her much. I dominated at beer pong and met some friends. (No interesting women though.) One of the people I went with hit his head and had to go to the hospital, the others went with him except for Girl X and I. By this point though, she was being "guarded" by a guy who was interested in her and who she seemed to like. She also seemed to be having some kind of problem and was crying at one point. (I don't know what was wrong, my other friends who knew her apparently were in the know, but I was not informed.)

I caught back up to her at the end of the night and talked for a few minutes, but at that point she just wanted to go home. I offered to give her a ride, but she wanted to wait for the other guys. (Who were still at the hospital.) I ended up leaving without even getting her number. After the crying and the interference from the other dude, I didn't really know what to do with her at that point or how to proceed. (Especially since I had spent very little time with her at the party.) I ended up leaving.

That party happens every week. I can't go this week, but I imagine I'll see her next week at the party. How should I proceed when I see her again? (Two weeks after first meeting with no contact in between.) How should I proceed if I run into her in the meantime? (It could happen, all the friends she was hanging with are my next door neighbors.)


I have also had numerous brief encounters with people I meet while studying or walking between classes. I've just been introducing myself and talking for a few minutes before leaving, because I don't know how to close or when it's appropriate to close.


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 Post subject: Re: I need help.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:06 pm 
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hey dude,
you say you can not get dates?
how many women have you asked out?, how did you do it?, what happened as a result?
I've tried a few different approaches. I've tried meeting an interesting girl and immediately asking her out at the end of our first conversation.

I've tried hanging out with her for a while and being friendly before telling her I was interested and asking her out.

One girl I met at a charity auction. (She worked at the art gallery.) She posted on Facebook that she really wanted some silly cheap toy and would love anyone who brought her one. I came in to where she worked with said toy and asked her out after some flirting and etc.

I probably am not asking people out enough in general, but I don't find many women that are interesting to me in my every day life. It's better at my new location and I'm meeting a lot of new interesting people. All told though, I probably asked out less than two dozen girls in the last few years.
well here is your main issue, start practicing and testing your ideas on a good sample size of women
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have you ever explained your situation, or asked her for help or asked her to wing you or anything?
Yes actually, and I think she is going to start winging for me. This arrangement should be profitable. I've also gotten over my "crush" on her. (Although I would still probably fuck her if the opportunity arose.)
cool

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I'm actually very open minded to many sexual things and differences of opinion. My problem is with "the game". I don't like that I have to play a stupid game and deceive women to get sex. I think that any two consenting adults who trust each other, care about each other, and both get horny, could have sex without regrets. It frustrates me that women who trust me implicitly and are single are horrified by the idea of having sex with me because "it would be wrong" and that I am going to have to learn to play games and trick them if I want to stop that from happening. (Because yes, I have asked most of my close female friends for sex at one point or another. I feel like two people who care about each other and are both horny should take care of each other's needs.)
also, you seem to have some sort of misconception about game (assuming you are speaking about the mystery method in particular), it's more or less just a guide to flirting for guys that are clueless, it has nothing really to do with tricking anyone, if a girl is not interested in having sex with you, trust me, she won't have sex with you

if girls are telling you they don't want to have sex with you because ''it would be wrong'' then they are simply lieing to you, most girls have trouble using the magic word... ''no'', they just can't say it for what ever reason, they would rather dodge that and give an excuse remaining passive, rather then just coming out and being honest and straight forward about it, in my opinion it's because they like to rationalize that they are not hurting a guys feelings by giving him a reason that is not ''I don't like you''

some girls have chatted with me about it and the way I have had it explained to me is, they just feel it is ''mean'', and they don't want to be ''mean'', sometimes they like a guy but just not enough to want to take it further then flirting, so they just keep flirting but don't let it get further, so they just don't cut it off at any point so that the guy doesn't hate them (or at least that seems to be the female goal), but realistically I don't like it, if you don't already recognize this pattern of behavior it can be confusing and some guys can get lead on easily thinking a girl likes them, cause the girl keeps saying so and keep giving them false hope cause she doesn't want to be ''mean'' instead of just telling the truth so he could use his time more efficiently to meet other women, I like to call these girls ''time wasters''
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This is not the problem. I have no problem opening myself up to others and getting them to do the same.
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All told though, I probably asked out less than two dozen girls in the last few years.
these ^ 2, don't add up, your post suggests you are a social guy and have that aspect down, but I get the sense that you are not quite pro-actively expressing how you feel to every girl you come into contact with that interests you, from start to finish girls should feel that you like them and find them attractive, and either overtly or covertly you should be flirting with them and moving things more towards sex if that is your short term goal, both logistically and compliance wise
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I'm learning the skills. Was there a purpose to this paragraph besides to attempt to insult me?
do I seem like I am trying to attack you, or help you?, there is more to getting girls then just social skills, social skills are a large part of meeting the girl, making a connection, and closing the deal without cock blocking yourself, but looks, your actual social status, and your lifestyle all effect how much women will actually be interested in you, obviously I could be wrong since I have very little to base this on besides a cold read off your post, but I get the vibe you are very picky about the way a girl looks, wanting high quality girls that every other guy and his dog also want, yet you are not willing to work on anything besides your social skills, there is more to it then that, attractive girls tend to have more male options then unattractive girls and you can bet they could get laid at anytime, if you want that to be you laying the pipe then you should be in the top of the line of her picking order and since you have stated that in the past few years you have probably asked out less then two dozen women, this makes your goal (if it is to score a mega hottie) even more seemingly unrealistic, in my opinion a guy who is absolutely on top of his shit, who can sleep with 1 out of 4 women who are realistically physically attractive, has an amazing game, and social skills are only a piece to the whole orchestra that is the game you play, everything matters, girls are picky and guys who claim to do better then 1 out of 2 are most likely either terribly insecure and lieing to try to impress people or make money, or simply not sleeping with women that are that sought after, and personally It is my opinion that holding some sort of superficial success rate is irrelevant, getting the kind of quality girls you want and having the sort of sex life you want, outweighs how many girls you fuck out of how many girls you talk to, if you simply want to up that success ratio, go bang fatties galore and you'll be a huge fatty pimp, however if you want high quality girls you should be willing to do what it takes, do as many as it takes to reach your goals, and become as high quality yourself as possible in every aspect of your life possible, not just social skills, get your game to a 10, get your looks to a 10, get your finances to a 10, get your popularity to a 10, get the amount of options you have to sleep with to a 10, get your whole life to a 10, not just one aspect, become as high quality as you possibly can achieve
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both the inner and the outer aspects of your self and your life can be improved
This one aspect of my life needs work. Other aspects are developed as needed. I am very happy with the person that I am and I don't feel great need for improvement beyond in this area. (Which doesn't mean I won't continue to learn and grow in many areas, just that I'm quite happy with the person that I am now.)
this is what I am talking about, there is more to women then just your social skills, you either become a dime piece to get dime pieces with less effort, or you have to approach alot more dime pieces and develop an efficient way to screen them, and put in more effort, if your life is a 10, and your game is a 10, you will get 10s, if you game is a 10, and your life is a 10, you can get tens, but it won't be as easy or as consistent

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I don't care about getting a perfect 10. When I say I have high standards, I mean emotionally. I want to find a girl that I have some amount of trust for and/or one who has at least two brain cells to rub together. My roommate is probably a 6 (saggy boobs and slightly overweight). My friend who is engaged is probably a 5. (A bit overweight and not a very pretty face.) Although the engaged friend always looks like a 9 when I'm around here because her personality is so amazing and overwhelming, she seems more attractive than she is.
ok fair enough, figure out what your perfect 10 is anyways so you know what to look for in your ideal girl, both physically and personality/lifestyle wise, this is a good start for you to screen girls out more early that you are talking with for girls that are more likely to have chemistry with you, dis-guard the ones that don't show promise, do your best to get in and commit to running your game with the ones that do, and just because you should improve yourself in all possible ways, doesn't mean you should not approach the girls you deem the most attractive, always shoot for your ideal situation, always go for the gold, challenge yourself
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I've got some results to report and some more questions actually. I've been meeting people around campus and I went to a party and met more people. All of my results have been positive and I've had no problem walking up to strangers and introducing myself and having conversations. However, I don't know how to proceed after chatting for a while. How do I advance the situation? How do I close? What kind of close should I be going for? Not knowing how to proceed, I've basically just left with first names when it was time for class. (And again, the responses have been positive and I'm sure I could resume communication with these women at a later time.)
chiefs-guide-to-outer-game-vt75887.html

this ^ can help you with the basics, to advance it depends on the situation, it depends on how much compliance you are seeing, it depends on what you want to accomplish

closing mostly comes down to what you want in the situation, as well as logistics, if you are simply talking about numbers, you just ask when you think you have the compliance, if kissing, you simply kiss when you think you have the compliance, if sex, you simply have sex when you have the logistics and think you have the compliance

what kind of close, also depends on your logistics, and the level of compliance you believe she has, you should also be learning how to screen girls, screen girls for qualities that interest you, as well as for sexual interest

before you are taking them out it's useful to know if it is more possible then not to end in sex, and it is also useful to know if it is more possible then not that you and the person are really going to get along well if you do end up having sex, after the sex gets boring
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Some examples:
-At lunch I sat down at a table with five girls and asked "is this seat taken?" I proceeded to talk to them and eat for 45 minutes and they invited me to each with them in the future. The one I was sitting next to was interesting to me and I would like to get somewhere with her, but I don't really know how to proceed. I kept them laughing at lunch and I'm sure that they will be happy to see me again.
you want to get further with that one girl? ask her out to do something, what ever you feel comfortable doing while out with her, try to push yourself to go a little beyond that, work on building compliance, having a good time, and getting to know the person, seeing if they screen up well for you
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-At another lunch, I sat down with one girl by herself. We had a few common interest and talked about college stuff. She told me about a game of Humans vs Zombies that will be starting soon. However, I ran out of topics and got a bit flustered. (Pretty uncommon for me, I'm not really sure what happened. Although she was quite hot.) She seemed bored and left "to go to class". I hope to see her again at the game, but this was by far my most negative experience of the week. I doubt I could salvage this one into anything more than casual friends.
often I find when I am really nervous around a girl I find exceptionally hot, I get a bit self conscious, this forces me into introspective thinking mode, my mind starts thinking of what is the best thing to say here, what would get this girl to like me, then lots of things race through and sometimes I just blank out and can't think of anything, the truth is, there is no best thing to say, often just taking a deep breath, relaxing, focusing externally and just letting go helps alot, just lower the pressure you are putting on yourself, you don't have to get anything out of the girl, and you can talk about anything, as long as you are thinking from an extrospective point of view and you are feeling good, she will start to feel good also, the content of the words are not as relevant as the emotional content and body language of the exchange, if the actual threads you are choosing are not to her liking while you are doing this, chances are you don't share the same interests and as hot as she is, it would be a bad idea to hook up with her (but no worries, there are plenty more hotties out there to get to know as long as approaching doesn't bother you, and you enjoy the company of women)

also a nice little trick I use, is when I open a girl and I am really nervous and simply can't clear my mind and get back to that extrospective point of view and I litterally ''run out of things to say'', I just ask her out, even if it has gone shitty, I just tell her that she seems cool, or interesting, and I want to take her out, then you just see what she says, if she agrees, get her number, and you can contact her when ever you want to get to know her better and gauge her further for interest and chemistry
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-I have a class with a Chinese exchange student. She doesn't know anyone. I talked to her or a few minutes before class and she asked me to sit with her in the rest of the classes because she wants to be near someone she knows. This girl isn't seriously my type, but I am willing to pursue it for experience purposes. How should I proceed from the friend she is clinging to, to some kind of more physical relationship?
make your intentions more clear, let her know you find her attractive and ask her out to do something, if you want a more physical relationship, act like you two already have one, just assume the roll and see if she plays her part
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Best for last:
-I had dinner with some friends and met a girl there. (Gonna call her Girl X) We chatted for a while in the group setting and I got a few IoIs from her. (Some touches and looks. Girl X walked up behind me at one point and hugged my arm to her chest while she talked to me.) Then she and my friends smoked some pot before leaving for a party. (I don't partake, so I played a video game with another guy while they smoked.) When they came back, Girl X seemed more interested in me. She tried on a bunch of different outfits for the part and I flirted while giving her opinions of her outfits. Before we left, she asked if I was single. (I assume that's a very large IoI.) She also pointed out to all of us that she was going to the party in a short dress and leaving her underwear behind.

So then at the party things didn't go as well. Girl X was off getting drunk and I lost track of her. Other guys were also all over her and I didn't really have a chance to talk to her much. I dominated at beer pong and met some friends. (No interesting women though.) One of the people I went with hit his head and had to go to the hospital, the others went with him except for Girl X and I. By this point though, she was being "guarded" by a guy who was interested in her and who she seemed to like. She also seemed to be having some kind of problem and was crying at one point. (I don't know what was wrong, my other friends who knew her apparently were in the know, but I was not informed.)

I caught back up to her at the end of the night and talked for a few minutes, but at that point she just wanted to go home. I offered to give her a ride, but she wanted to wait for the other guys. (Who were still at the hospital.) I ended up leaving without even getting her number. After the crying and the interference from the other dude, I didn't really know what to do with her at that point or how to proceed. (Especially since I had spent very little time with her at the party.) I ended up leaving.

That party happens every week. I can't go this week, but I imagine I'll see her next week at the party. How should I proceed when I see her again? (Two weeks after first meeting with no contact in between.) How should I proceed if I run into her in the meantime? (It could happen, all the friends she was hanging with are my next door neighbors.)
you should be more proactive in getting on top of what you want, set a short term goal that is related to the present moment in time, figure out what you want to accomplish, then set out to accomplish that in what is the best way in your opinion, then after your plan of action has been set in motion, reflect on the outcome and how you could improve the plan of action

in that particular situation, that girl was showing overt interest in you, the most common ioi's that are easy to pick apart are
-girl laughs at alot of the stuff you say, with little to no effort on your part
-girl trys to engage you in conversation on her own
-girl touches you
-girl follows you around

when you are seeing positive attention from women, test compliance and build it from what point you think you are at (see the link posted way above for the basics on compliance momentum, or a ''compliance ladder'')

also, when there are guys around, don't worry about them, most likely they don't fit into your short term goals you have set for yourself, don't focus so much on them, focus on the task at hand and pro-actively meeting that ends in the most efficient way possible, anything that is not conducive to your ends, should be disregarded, don't get distracted from the task at hand

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I have also had numerous brief encounters with people I meet while studying or walking between classes. I've just been introducing myself and talking for a few minutes before leaving, because I don't know how to close or when it's appropriate to close.
this is great, start asking for phone numbers and facebooks from people (assuming you have a phone and a facebook), ask both guys and girls, make friends, meet girls, meet guys, make social connections in general, the more the better, and practice your ability to do it with efficiency, focus on forming a deep meaningful connection with the actual kind of people that you seem to click well with, really get to know them as people

GOOD LUCK


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:22 am 
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Got a facebook and a phone number tonight while walking around campus and studying. Nothing huge, but it was nice to feel like I made progress. Let's see what I can do with these two.

On that note, how should I handle Day 2? I'm meeting one of the girls tomorrow to storm through some club and organization meetings ending with a swing dance organization later in the evening. Maybe invite her out somewhere after that? Depending on how it goes ask her home? I'm not really certain.

I'm meeting the other one in the afternoon to study. I legitimately need to study and so does she, so I'm not sure how best to proceed while still getting our work done.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:15 pm 
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Got a facebook and a phone number tonight while walking around campus and studying. Nothing huge, but it was nice to feel like I made progress. Let's see what I can do with these two.

On that note, how should I handle Day 2? I'm meeting one of the girls tomorrow to storm through some club and organization meetings ending with a swing dance organization later in the evening. Maybe invite her out somewhere after that? Depending on how it goes ask her home? I'm not really certain.

I'm meeting the other one in the afternoon to study. I legitimately need to study and so does she, so I'm not sure how best to proceed while still getting our work done.
1st of all, make sure the girl is aware of your intentions before meeting her up, make sure she knows this is a meetup because you are attracted to her, not a friendly little buddy meetup

don't get neurotic and start texting her a shit load of irrelevant shit to ''maintain the interest'' after she agrees to a date, just call her that day to meet her

try to pick a place for a date that minimizes the distance to your house, the closer the better, and if you are driving her to the date, just let her know you forgot something at your house (lucky hat, lucky penny, lucky what ever, if she asks you ''can't go on a date without it''), invite her in, let her know it will just be a second, get your irrelevant object and proceed to the date spot (this helps her rationalize later that nothing bad will happen at your house if she goes in initially)

have fun on the date, enjoy yourself, if you're enjoying your self and not too worried about how it is going, chances are she is enjoying herself, just don't put too much pressure on yourself

keep things flirty, hit on her a bit so that the interaction maintains a sexual frame (basically just act like you two already have sex together), if it's difficult for you to hold a sexual frame, there will be other girls, but if it helps you, just realize that she came out on the date when she knows your intentions, obviously she is interested, don't over think it, if she is in a bad mood, just keep yourself in a good mood and try to flip her, let her tell you about herself, let her talk, build compliance for a kiss and kiss her

try to keep your focus extrospective, if you can, don't think about what you're doing, don't think about XYZ pua move that will seal the deal, don't think about what's going to happen later, don't think about what she has done in the past, focus on the task at hand, just enjoying yourself, don't worry about her liking you, she already does, she showed up for a date, just don't do anything weird to cockblock yourself, less thinking, more just being happy and aware of your surroundings/how she feels and doing

so, when you are done your drink or what ever you take her to do, give her a reason to go back to your house, just make the choice for her, assume she wants to come and give her a reason that is non sexual so if her friends ask her how her date went, she can have a non-slutty answer ''lets get out of here and go get more drinks'', then take her to your house for a drink, get yourself into a horny mood, make out with her, feel her up, have sex with her, if she doesn't want to come then just set up another date

also along the way, don't fall for her ASD, what a girl does tells you more then what she says, if she starts feeding you lines like
-I don't kiss on first dates
-I never do this sort of thing
-we are not having sex
-it takes xyz time for guy to have sex with me
-I usually never give my number out
etc.

ignore that kind of thing, she just doesn't want you to think she is too easy, you can bet it is most likely a lie, don't misinterpret it as disinterest if she showed up and she is showing compliance

GOOD LUCK


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