This is something that has always been in the community, probably always will, I just wanted to point it out now, and hopefully someone out there will "get it."

I was at work today, and helped this smoking hot girl. Super banging Asian girl, that had it ALL together. Looks, personality, everything. We hit it off, and in fact planned a date next week. My coworker came up to me, and started practically jumping up and down and going: "Dude, she was totally like a 10 or 11!!!"

And I was shocked, because I would have rated her a 7-8 by body, 8.5 with personality. And I see tons of my other guy friends rating girls who didn't look or act half as good as this chick as 9s or 10s.

As a community, we actually have 2 problems:

1. Low Standards. Most of us come from situations where women were "scarce" in our past, due to being uncomfortable with asking them out, or with sex, etc. So we shot super low. Now, we got PU, and we still are stuck in the same habits of looking towards the same fat, ugly bitches that we couldn't score then, and could pull easy now. In fact, we often shoot a little higher. A little. And get (truthfully) average girls. There's nothing wrong with that. But open your eyes. These are not dimes.

2. Defensive Rating. Look on the forum, and you will probably not see one post for anything other than a 8, 9, 10. The problems these people have with these girls are often easily solved, and I usually have a hard time believing a real 9-10, like a playboy model, is actually dating this dude. The dude knows this isn't a 10, but doesn't want to seem like a loser, so he posts her a higher number. This is a community that helps people become better, but we want the truth. If you go to a doctor, and the doctor asks you what health problems you have, and you tell him you're perfect, even when you have had a bad stomach ache for weeks, just so you impress him, don't be upset when you die the next day of internal bleeding. Of course he couldn't help you! A huge part of PU, I've found, is the realization that you don't have to front on people all the time. You are awesome intrinsically. You just need a way for people to see it. Cool. So don't try to front on us here at the forum.

I wanted to take this opportunity to admit that I've dated 2s, I've dated 4s, I've dated 8s, and it is my goal to some day date a real dime.

Now imagine just how much we can change this forum for the better if we stop trying to just impress each other, and simply have some real talk.

If people want, I'd be happy to start a discussion in this post on what constitutes real 8s, 9s, and 10s, so that we may all benefit from a little truth.

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Jazzy Jeff: "My love for you is like a river,
Like a summer breeze that makes my soul shiver,
One look from you is more precious than gold,
Let's grab some BBQ and go get busy!"

It is all about perception my boy! I have dated "My 10", my "Perfect Girl" and she is the only person I have ever even considered to be close to a True 10. Other guys might only rate her a 8 based on looks alone, but she was "My 10" so I didn't fucking care! Now have I dated more physically attractive girls? The short answer is NO, not because I have not, but rather that I never see them beyond "My 10". I understand what you are getting at with your post, but the reality is that each individual sees something different in every girl.

If we took a poll on the "Hottest Woman in the World" we would literally get 1000's of answers! Why? Because everyone has their own perception!


Peace...

_________________
Crypto...
______________________________________
All girl's are Freaks...It is your job to bring it out in them! - Crypto

You need to stop bending over and letting her ass fuck your brain! - Heywood

Congratulations! And I'm not trying to diss your 10 at all! I totally agree that attractiveness is highly subjective (both looks and personality), but I still believe we fall victim to the above two errors consistently. You have your 10, now, but even you said that this is the closest to a "True 10" you've dated. Like I said, most people on the forum are practically calling every girl they walk into on the street a 9 or 10. And that, I highly doubt.

Also, what people prefer is not necessarily what the community should call a ten. Personally, I think a little imperfection is cute, so if I was going to wife some girl up, I would probably be looking for a nine, not the perfect swimsuit model.

I short, I agree with you that rating is highly subjective. But if you're going to HONEST with yourself, I don't think most people here really believe that every girl they get with is exactly what they're looking for, like they say they are. And that internal dishonesty can seriously hurt game, and hinder us on the forum to help that person.

Thanks for the reply, Crypto! Definitely some good points that others may want to comment on.

By the way, shout out to some guy in another post on here (I forget whom). Said he was dating some stripper (a bad idea in my opinion), but was honest here and let everyone know she was a 7.5. If she was attractive enough to be a stripper, I'll believe she was around a 7.5. Kudos! That's the kind of integrity I'm talking about.

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Jazzy Jeff: "My love for you is like a river,
Like a summer breeze that makes my soul shiver,
One look from you is more precious than gold,
Let's grab some BBQ and go get busy!"

Nice question and I agree with Crypto. Playboy models are not my taste and I am not interested in that kind of women. For me my girlfriend is a 10. She's a natural being, fun as hell, intelligent as fuck and sexy as me. She's my 10, or 11 if we can make the scale bigger.

I understand that quote a log questions here about 7-8-9-10 ones, however now it is my question - from my perception, if there's something I really like about particular woman I just like her. I want her. She's my 10 at that moment. Shey may not be that hot, but she may be fun as hell, or she may not be so fun, but she can be hot as hell. As Crypto said, it's a perception and it's really true. What I find a mystery - how can you rate a girl like 7? Do we mean looks or so? I really have girls around who do not look like models, however they radiate fun, sexuality and girly behaviour, they get a lot of attention and no, they do not look like polished teenage playboy models.

So here I go again, with my rating system that solves ALL of these problems. It's simple, it's easy to understand and it will get rid of the problem of putting those "10s" on a pedestal. So here it is:

There are the girls I want to fuck.

And there are the girls I don't want to fuck.

This is just basically all that matters. If I want to fuck her, it doesn't matter shit to me that she's a bit less attractive than the other girl there who I also want to fuck. In fact if it doesn't work out with her I'll probably walk up to that other girl with the same genuine intent, without putting any pressure on myself that "oh she's even more attractive so if I failed with the last one I'm bound to be blown out by this one".

_________________
"Bros before hoes"

Relationship guide: extended-relationship-guide-vt170687.html

http://wayoftheplayer.com/become-a-player/instinct

Bravo, man. I love it. And you're right, that's what's important. Perhaps, best case would be if us as PUAs just did away with the rating system all together. It serves no purpose, and does really objectify women (something I've always had an issue with).

Plus that would solve the whole integrity issue that I believe holds us back. Thanks to everyone on great points that helped me clarify my own thoughts and give me a new perspective on the matter!

_________________
Jazzy Jeff: "My love for you is like a river,
Like a summer breeze that makes my soul shiver,
One look from you is more precious than gold,
Let's grab some BBQ and go get busy!"

The big issue with this also is when you distort the rating you get incorrect advice. I've seen way to many times were guys call a girl who is average or below average (5 or 4) an 8 or a 9. If your as charming, confident and hold the type of presence that works with 8/9/10 that will actually hinder you with a 4/5, it's like james bond hitting on an average girl, it looks suspicious because your out of her league.

Also it has another problem, it creates an artificial cap that limits the caliber of girl a guy can wrap his head around going after. A perfect example of this was some years ago at the first forum meet-up in nashville. One of the guys wasn't approaching any girls and I talked to him a bit and it turned out that the women at this bar we were at were intimidatingly hot to him, compared to what he thought were 8's and 9's back in the little town he came from in the midwest, he thought the average girl in this bar was off the charts and it caused a mental block for him. Ironically I wasn't much interested in most of the women there either because compared to where I live, the "hot" women at the club were 4's and 5's. That's the biggest issue I see with rating women higher then they should be, it limits the caliber of women you can envision yourself pursuing.

I'm with you on this one. One reason i think guys give out so many high numbers is because they're relating it to an educational type grading system rather than a percentage of society. A 7 is a C, 8 is a B, 9 is an A, 10 is an A+, so a 6 would be barely fuckable and no one's going to claim anything lower than a 7.

But frankly i think the american educational system is whack anyway and i prefer to just break up the female race into 10% chunks. 1 = ugliest 10%, 2 = next 10% and so on. And then once i get into the 8s and 9s i might even add a .5 or something. That leaves a whopping 5% of all women who are 10s. thats still one in 20, but imagine picking out the 5 hottest girls in a club full of 100 women. Hell, not even Hef is that picky. Theres plenty of 5s and 6s (by my rating) that are fuckable and i don't really NEED to have the hottest girl around to have a good time. At some point you just gotta ask yourself whether you're picking up girls to impress the guys around you or if you're picking up girls because its fun.

I think it's intuitive math. A 10 should almost never exist. Only what we see on magazines and TV but again in real life, the subject of the rating should be relegated to a 9 in person.

A 9 should be a supermodel. Height of about 172cm+ due to her scarcity. Very thin. I'd say 1% of the population?

An 8 should be like a hot high school cheerleading girl.
5%?

A 7 should be someone within the 10-20th percentile. A physical flaw or two.
10% of the population?

A 6 should be a girl with many flaws. 2
20%?

Below a 5 would be undatable and not be worth anybody's time.

I don't really like these sort of posts, guys act like there is a different way to game a girl based on how she looks

first of all, how you much you value a girl's looks is completely subjective from guy to guy, every guy has different tastes

secondly it's the behavior you have to game, not the looks, a girl who you precieve as a 5 could have self esteem through the roof, while a girl who seems physically flawless to you could have low self esteem, just because you precieve her to be a dime piece, does not nessicarily mean that she precieves herself the same way

not only this, but congruence and confidence are a pretty huge factor in attracting women, as soon as you start doing weird needy/reaction seeking shit in order to game different according to looks, you are just simply putting that girl up on a pedastool

pay attention to the feelings and the behavior, not the looks, a scale of, would smash/10 or wouldn't smash/10 is probably the easiest to go by, and you will never truly know how a girl will actually react to you until you meet her, the meanest looking intimidating girl could be the easiest set of your life, and the nicest looking bland girl who's smiling at you and flipping her hair, could be the rudest most not down person you have met in a year

it's all in your head, if you want girls you precieve to be 10s, then go approach the 10s, it's only tougher in your mind because you place a higher value on her and defeat yourself before you even begin, your 10 is another man's 6, and his 10 is not your 10, theres no reason why you're not good enough to get any girl you approach, if you can get with one, you can potentially get with them all, you are as attractive as you are attractive

I either want to fuck her or I don't.

I like the Tucker Max scale.

People are right that the rating system is entirely relative to the PUA's perception of a girl. Everyone has different tastes etc. But FreshPrince has a pretty good point - there's a lot of guys talking about 10's and 9's they've met, but I don't think I've ever met or seen a 10 in my life; that would imply that they have 100% perfect and couldn't improve at all.

Pumpington is entirely right about behaviour; a lot of girls who people consider a 6 or 7 don't put as much effort into how they look because they're happy with themselves and have confidence. Whereas a 9 or 10 might very well put huge amounts of effort into how she looks (Which is why she's a 9 or 10 in the first place) because she's insecure about herself. Then there's other girls who are a 9 or 10 who know they're attractive and will act entirely differently. As a general rule of thumb I'd say most of the really attractive girls I've met are very aware of how attractive they are and the slightly less attractive ones are insecure because they feel like they aren't good enough. Obviously this varies greatly, so you just can't make assumptions and judge a book by its cover.

I think that the rating system has the potential to be harmful to ones own self confidence. If guys are trying to game what they think is a 6, doesn't that say that they don't think they're good enough for a far more attractive girl? This may very well show, as Pumpington said, when you're approaching a girl you think is a 9 or 10 because you're putting her on a pedestal.

Having a rating system out of 10 is probably a good benchmark for yourself, since successfully gaming what you think is a 9 or 10 is going to boost your confidence, and you can set standards for yourself by never going below what you think is a 6 or 7 or whatever, but everyone needs to realize that when someone posts telling us about this "HB9" they met, it's entirely relative.

Fuckable vs non fuckable, discrimination equals masturbation...


And what if you are with a 10 that just lay there like statute...Been there with couple of those...

What if you fuck a 6 that does anal, deep throat, do flips on your dick, is bi... After she is done with you she will be a 10 in your eyes...

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True Story,

really rating womens is just a preference of us men. If someone says I closed a HB10 it only means that the women was a 10 for that man. It doesnt mean we will rate her the same. Therefore I also dont mind it if others use ratings to describe women, I do the same and it only shows how I think about her.

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Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster -Sun Tzu