I hope I can post this here. If not, mods feel free to remove this thread.

OK, so I've read a lot of PUA material. As I'm sure a lot of others have.

On the all time MUST READ list are:

1. The Game (obviously)
2. Mystery Method
3. Attraction Code
4. Gunwitch Method
5. 60 Years of Challenge (props to chief for bringing me to this)

Normally, a typical guys' journey seems to go like this:

Guy is frustrated -> Learns Pick-up -> Has a limited amount of success with women -> Still finds something is missing -> simplifies routines -> completely gets rid off routines -> works on inner game -> realises he never needed pick-up in the first place.

I guess it's all part of the philosophy K.I.S.S
I'm guilty of over thinking stuff. There's no denying it. How many times have we had a cute girl, the girl of our dreams interested in us and we still somehow to manage to let her get away?

Ring a bell?

Now someone pointed me to what I consider to be one of the very last bits of literature I'm EVER going to read on pick-up.

It's called 'End Game' by Logun.

Now when I first picked up this book, I thought to myself. OK, it's going to contain some specifics to help guys closing. Specifics such as... this is what you need to do to f-close or kiss close... Or even keep the girl of your dreams in that relationship you've always wanted.

But what I ended up reading was almost nothing at all to do with what I thought.

And at the same time it made sense.

Let's see...

I remember reading a thread once where some newbie asked... 'What's the difference between being in love and your oneitis?'

Chief summarized it pretty nicely actually. I kept reading it over again, although I didn't want to accept it I knew the profoundness of his statement.

I'm paraphrasing because I can't find be asked to find that thread but it went something like this...
Back to the point of this thread and that book...

Sometimes it is really simple. The PUA mentality teaches us to run routines and conveniently cover up our shortcoming with tricks and so on... But what is really going on here?

Sure we might get a number close or even a kiss close. But what happens when all the dust settles. Doesn't the girl eventually realise she's got a guy who actually doesn't have much to offer?

That's the truth isn't it? What happens if we concentrated on building that life so exciting instead of trying to SELL it that one special girl, she the one who wants to BUY in.

Its all about two concepts.

1. Getting.
2. Giving or Creating.

When we are motivated by GETTING our intentions are based on selfishness. We buy her flowers and run game on her because we want her to be our girlfriend. Or we might really like to FUCK her.

When we are motivated by GIVING or CREATING the mentality is completely different. We're offering something to her. When she buys into our lives she is getting something in return. Excitement, safety. This is the foundation for all relationships isn't?

Think about it... When have you been most successful? Is it when you've been GETTING or when you've been GIVING?

Ever wondered why that ugly girl who you never ran any game on wants to talk to you and buy into your life... Yet the cutie who you desperately tried EVERYTHING with ends up leaving you?

OK yeah maybe it's because the ugly girl doesn't have many options, but the real reason is you spoke to her without a GETTING mentality. And she assumed, because of this you are speaking to her with a GIVING mentality. And that is really why she wants to keep talking to you.

And this is exactly why the cutie who you've tried everything with DOESN'T want to keep talking to you. She knows you only want to take something from her and offer her nothing - and she probably did like you before she realised this...

I'll leave you with an excerpt from the book...
K.I.S.S

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*Justice renders the WEAK his due*
My Journal
here-vp445642.html#445642

Iiiiiii llike it. I think that giving mentality is one of the best ways to sleep with a girl. Iff you can read her well and understand why she's talking to you and what she needs it can be very powerful. It can make you a very important personn in her life other than the other average guyss who just want to blow there load on her face

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"The body and unconcious mind never lies"

Exactly.. and even on the initial approach, girls (and most people) can easily sense what your agenda is.. what you want.. what you are doing.

We all have been hit on by salesman when we aren't even in a store. Reminds me of the other day when this guy in a pick up truck follows me into an empty parking lot when I go to turn around. He first tells me "Nice car!", I say thanks. Obviously he wants something, he then asks if I want to buy home theater equipment.. I say "no thanks, I'm broke." He drives off. This is probably the equivalent of a guy hitting on a girl in a dark alleyway, but still, you can FEEL him wanting something from you.

It even comes down to your sub-communications. Are you saying something, then expecting an answer? This is why I find it best to start with statements and observations. It even helps to look away and observe people/things in the environment, this is least creepy and easiest for her to hook onto. I've been practicing this and it works wonders for the general vibe. Most guys will ASK questions, which can be brutal.
RSD tyler always talks about this in his free tour videos on youtube. Guy asks question, (then tyler makes hand gestures that signal "is it on between us? come onnnn, you like me, right?" where he moves both hands back and forth between himself and the other person). Often times the guy will want a positive reaction to pump his own state SOOO badly out of the girl that it's quite disgusting

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"going to workout and shit." -stunt101 (PUA chat)

I wouldn't agree with this. For an AFC with no natural game, pick up helps him with inner game by first using canned routines and memorising lines. But practising this develops inner game. Once this is developed you can go into a set so naturally it feels like you didn't game them at all. In a way you didn't, you weren't technically playing the pick up game, It's simply who you are and how you act around women.

Some guys don't need to learn pick up to get girls.
I've had moderate success before learning the game, but learning pick up really accelerates your inner game and increases your success rate. It's also a great way to boost your confidence which positively impacts all areas of your life

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Go forth and procreate, but don't forget to wear a condom.

feel you on the "giving vs. taking" mindset.

but we need to differentiate between love and sex, and different people have different objectives here.

if it's about getting as many girls as possible and/or generally improving your game no matter what, you are not looking for that sort of thing. if it happens, cool. if not, no problem.

but no matter the case, you're GIVING her more than she expects, hopefully.

many orgasms is something most women are very grateful for. they don't need to fall in love to feel that gratitude, man.

An interesting post that I've got a lot of time for.

I'm not entirely convinced with the usage of "giving", although this is more a semantic disagreement than disagreeing with the point you're making. I prefer the analogy of letting the girl buy into your life, or 'sharing', than giving. Giving, to me, suggests an element of neediness, almost like you're trying to force something upon her. Sharing, on the other hand, is exactly that. You're having a good time, other people see that you're having a good time, they want to become a part of your good time, so you then share it with them. As I say, entirely semantic, but it just seems like a better image to me than one of 'giving'.

Intrigue - I also agree with that. I think tweeby's time line is probably not a million miles off, but perhaps rather than having its own section, "works on inner game" is something that slowly happens throughout the whole process. At first, actually being able to go up to a girl and start a conversation with her, and try a few canned lines, can give you a massive confidence boost which then helps you on the way down the rest of the path that tweeby mentions. I do believe though that most people will eventually move away from a lot of the canned stuff towards "natural game", where things as 'simple' as confidence, personality and inner game are the main tools of the trade rather than routines. The canned lines can still have a place, but I do think they are more generally there to help you get to the point that tweeby concludes at.

i can agree with that.

Good topic Tweeby!

Giving takes away from wanting at all in the first place.

Do you want a girl?

Do you need a girl?

Do you just want to apply game to get a girl?

If someone means something to you, you should aim to never apply game in the first place and be yourself.

If Picking up is the only reason thats what the game is for!

So really can't keep giving if you aren't receiving at all!

And can't keep wanting if you don't really need it in the first place!

When in game mode only apply game.

When outside game mode be yourself.

Pickupz69

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Pickupz Lifestyle

Great Post. What really took my game to another level was when I stopped over complicating everything and kept things simple.Most men I discover tend to make picking up chicks more difficult than it really is

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRYNYb30nxU[/youtube]