Hey How_R_U,

Again, nice work! Though now i got a bit more remarks about the convo's, so lets break them down and see where we get.

But first, i'd like to come back to the post of RR:
Hehehe, i like that one
and that one as well.

But... and this is actually a remark towards How_R_U as well: this is not really direct anymore. This is more like cocky funny with balls. Although you want this in your interaction, it is not direct IMO. But more of this when i get to the convo's.

The conversations:

In general i can say that again that what you say is not really congruent with what you want (or want to say). You are talking around the bush (or how goess that saying again?)

First converstation: I tihnk this is a nice opening, but you arent really interested in what she is going to buy. She cant really show herself in a unique way either.
You want to tell her that you think she looks hot and you want to do stuff together.

But instead, you do ask more about the makeup. She kinda knows you arent there for the makeup. So what are you hiding?

Better might have been (and yes, i know, its easy saying from behind my computer ):
you: Hey, in case... too often.
Her: okay (laughs, bit shocked)
You: (what you want now is to look her in the eyes, so if she is not facing you anymore, you just say:) Hey.... (she looks at you)... you are actually very pretty. Why would you need make up? (here, you really need to shut up. dont let her off the hook. You are making a statement, and you are man enough to take whatever she answers. It needs to show you are that confident).
she:... well... you know, i need to look good and all the women do it.
you: Hah, yeah, all the women do it. But i like natural girls more. Most beautiful girls wear make up to hide their personality. (again, silence )
she: (this can go both ways here as you are quite firm and seriously qualifying.) *bitch reply*: yeah well whatever
you: hmm, i see now why you need make up.
*not bitch reply*: oh, but i am an interesting girl (smiles)
you: really? well, lets find out then! Tomorrow, 7 pm, lets go for a quick dinner and a drink

second convo: this has happened to me often enough. Good looking from far away, but far from good looking. Exit asap .
One thing though: you talk about transitioning. FUCK TRANSITIONS. Be aware of the context of the interaction, but fuck transitions. State what you want and say what you want to say. Transitions are usually an excuse for not saying what is on your mind. You keep on looking for the good opportunity to say what you want to say, but there is no better time like now.

Third convo: nothing to say . She didnt want to reply apparently.
Fourth convo: if she stops walking but just says thanks, you should keep on going.
if she didnt stop, you could say hey wait! and then be super direct. But the fact that she kept on walking should already tell you enough.

Fifth conversation: I can understand you felt kinda set back by the boyfriend reply. But you can work with it. its not because she has a boyfriend that she isnt available. And another thing i want to say first is, again, you didnt really say what you want to say. you arent really honest nor direct here. I know you know that the weather subject was not that good of topic , but it is because you are not telling what you want to say that you end up in these weird 'shit test like' situations. It feels like you get slapped in the face by sheer logics. 'Well move back then'. sheer logic. If you were really honest with her, and not set back by her boyfriend reply, you would not have any trouble with this question. I hope i make sense here, but if not, ask .

Ok, i would have done the following:

you: so where are you going?
her: to my boyfriend
you: oh, that is too bad. Wel for me anyway, as i think you are cute and i actually want to get to know you. I was going to take you out for a drink .

You answer here with plain honesty. its a smacker for her. if she really got a boyfriend, she will say i am sorry, but i cant. Then you know she really got a boyfriend or she really isnt attracted to you.
If she does say ok, where and when, dont say anything about the boyfriend. Ask her when you see her again. you will get an honest reply then.

Through experience, i know this works way better then C&F replies. Yes, there you are, naked and ready to get gunned down, but it takes a lot of balls to go like this and most girls will instantly respect you because of your honesty. I like the reply examples of RR, but they only give the girl an impression of your intentions and of what you really want. Which puts them on alertmode, they are cautious and sometimes not at ease.

Every once and a while, you will be very open and honest, and the girl still will not be at ease. Never mind that, go with her emotional situation and show understanding, like: hey, i know this is kinda awkward, but if you saw an opportunity for something you really want to do, and the next second it would be gone, wouuldn't you mind the awkwardness?

something like that .

You are doing good. be pride my man, because you are walking the path! Its the best way of learning and the most fun!

Also, i know the kicks in the nuts hurt. And actually, i am happy you received this kind of kick while you are doing just an approach and not yet fully direct. You need to get used to these kicks. its always better to get the kick and now it aint gonna happen then walk past by her and always wonder how she would have reacted.

When you go fully direct, more in the direction like in my examples, be prepared for kicks that seem much more painful. Its is because the nuts are larger (figurally speaking). Honesty is great seductive weapon, but it cuts on both sides.

good luck mate!

_________________
"Stop being a fucking vagina and escalate" - CaptainJackHarkness

Like the naked leads the blind.
I know I'm selfish, I'm unkind.
Sucker love I always find,
Someone to bruise and leave behind.
placebo - every me, every you

That's a pretty big generalization of my game, dude... Don't do that. Your providing opinions based on your own hypothesis - which isn't MY fact. It's like me saying that when you tell a woman "I was going to take you to _________" is rather AFC as most women will tune you out for telling her about a 'pretend date'. But that's MY opinion and does nothing for the thread - see? It's also confusing to the OP.

To the OP - ALL of this is opinion - OUR opinions. What you need to learn to do is read the opinions and filter out which ones fit YOUR personality/style/character. What one PUA does will be vastly different than another...

My game isn't perfect. I won't say it is - there is NO perfect game. But, being 45, and fucking almost 40 women since this new year began.... my game works for me - damned well.

Additionally, don't get bogged down in titles. Direct/indirect.... NONE of that matters. What matters is if you achieve your goals. Fucking a chick being indirect where you wanted to be direct isn't failure. Opening indirect and transitioning back to direct because you somehow feel like you have to - and then NOT fucking her - isn't success either.

Find what works for you.

Best,

RR

_________________
Women are like ceramic tile.... if you do the prep work, and lay them properly the first time...you can walk all over them for years to come.

thanks a lot guys. You both got some valid points and I appreciate that y'all went out of your way to give me advice. I'm busy now but I got a long reply coming up, I will have it up here soon. Once again, thanks for sharing your experiences and opinions.

Hey.
I did not intend to generalize your game nor downgrade it. But you do make a valid point, as my personal opinion on your examples dont really matter in general. Still, in order to be clear about how i would do it, i need to tell why i would do it the way i do it. A discussion is not really worth it and also not very helpful towards the OP. I just want to make clear i dont mean any offense.
Yeah, i agree here. These are indeed our opinions and our own interpretations of how things should be done.

You also make a good point about the titles. it doesnt really matter how you call it. hell, it might be called Smurph, it doesnt matter. But i do rather give it a name, because i find it easier to talk about.

All we can do is give examples of how we would deal with it. And motivate the man to continue what he is doing, as many of the other posters here havent even gone that far.

cheers!

_________________
"Stop being a fucking vagina and escalate" - CaptainJackHarkness

Like the naked leads the blind.
I know I'm selfish, I'm unkind.
Sucker love I always find,
Someone to bruise and leave behind.
placebo - every me, every you

Alright guys I got some time now. I'll try to reply to your posts as well as possible, and I try to mix in some of my opinions to filter out what I could try.

I know talking about the weather is horrible. I was desperate. I had never complimented a girl like that and I didn't know what to say. I mean I was honest with them, I really did like their clothes, but being this direct was completely new. What I definitely can't see myself doing, is going for comfort right after the opener. RR, i really like how your suggestion reads, but this would not be me. It would be incongruent as fuck. I couldn't say this to a girl with a straight face after I just met her and I don't even know if she's just courteous or interested.

Being honest like that just isn't in my toolbox yet. Same thing with telling the make up girl she's real pretty, I just couldn't pull it off. I know I haven't really found my game yet. But when I look at my best efforts (the blonde at the airport, HB8 looking at cardgames) so far, it was always a spontaneous conversation with a good deal of playfulness and teasing. I damn near pulled the same thing off with the make up girl but I just had no idea where to carry the convo. I just love making people laugh. So I just wanted to try if direct could work with this style.

My verdict: the problem was just me not having anything to say. Delivering the opener was easier than expected, the responses were much more polite than I had imagined. But after that, I just got stuck. It was very hard to go to a normal convo after complimenting. Like I said, rejection and approaching -> no problem.

To fix this, I looked up one or two routines that might work. I thought they were interesting and funny and I could see myself pulling that kinda stuff off. Plus, I'm gonna stick with what worked before. Just playful small talk. When I start seeing IOIs I will go all in for the instant date. If not, I at least want a number. I just have to settle down, calm my nerves and go with what worked in the past.

What do you say?

LD - much respect.


How_r_u: Smart move. Go with what fits you. That's the whole deal. I would caution you to think about this: When you way "I'll stick with what works"... Define that for yourself. What 'worked'? Was getting a number the success, was fucking her the success, was simply talking to her effortlessly the part where you said "it's working"? That's key. For me: Success means I fucked her - nothing short of that (vice reaching the hook point and just losing interest for another). You seem to have the ability to think 'in the moment'. Use that. Cold read the chick prior to approach and inject that into the conversation... "I can tell from ______ that you ______" make it something abstract. Her glasses could indicate a career path based on shape. Her attire could indicate a ball-breaking attorney. Her demeanor could indicate someone with the world on their shoulders - TELL her. It's conversation - regardless of if you're right. That's not the point. You're building rapport/guaging interest the whole time you're in set. Such cold read techniques merely keep you in set.

Best,

RR

_________________
Women are like ceramic tile.... if you do the prep work, and lay them properly the first time...you can walk all over them for years to come.

Alright guys, it's been a while but I've been pretty busy. I had a breakthrough in my new class, I don't feel like the new kid anymore. I'm pretty sure PU helped me be more sociable and open! I did get an approach today though, let me share it with you.

This morning I had a hair appointment. Afterwards, I just walked around town for a while. It was hot as hell so there weren't that many people around and I knew I wasn't gonna spend much time in the heat either. The weirdest part was the absence of hot girls, it's like they all went on some sort of HB field trip lol. I noticed a cute HB8, pretty clothes. Definitely interesting enough for an approach.

Me: Hey, I gotta tell you something!
Her: kinda confused look
Me: I noticed you over there, and I really like the way you dress.
Her: Thank you
Me: So what's your name?
Her: I got a BF?
Me: And he stole your name or something? (smile)
Her: Okay, my name is
Me: Wow, you look so awesome but you've got such a lame name! (this sounds pretty weird if translated. It's got a better sound to it in my native language)
Her: ....
Me: So where are you going?
Her. I'm going to [some college in my town]
Me: Why, that your school?
Her: No, I'm just meeting a friend who studies there and we're gonna grab some coffee.
Me: Yeah, I've been debating whether I wanna go to that school here, but probably not. So do you study at all or do you just sit at home all day? (smile)
Her: No, I'm working at a lawyer's office. I gotta take a right here, bye!
Me: Bye!

I don't really know what to make of this. Her answers were a bit longer than what I usually hear, to me that's an IOI. At least she's willing to have a convo. But then again the opener was the most awkward part. I gotta switch to something else. I think most girls are creeped out by it. I just have no idea how to change that! I mean I gave her the best delivery I had. I'm working on my looks, new haircut, prescription for my acne. I just really hate the opening part. Once I'm in, I feel no real pressure at all. I got pretty good at just talking and shit. But opening up a convo is hard. What I completely forgot, was the whole statement-thing..cold reads instead of questions. I read that from you, RR, and in Gambler's book. Oh well, I'll try it next time.


Looking at the big picture, I'm getting frustrated....this is my 16th approach and I still haven't got a number. Once, I coulda got one but I messed up and didn't ask for it. I got this weird feeling that I come across kinda creepy, I'm tired of not being taken seriously by my targets.

The only thing pushing me right now is that I'm just 18, and one day I will be really good with girls because of all the effort and rejection I'm going through right now.

How_r_u...

You're doing FINE.

Seriously.

Let's back up and ask this question: Have you approached 10x people a day for at least 2 weeks?

If not - you're doing fantastic opening - but you're diminishing your law of return without first being comfortable. When you approached this chick - did you have this little voice in the back of your head that said "Oh shit, what the fuck am I doing?"

If so, slow down, don't try to 'get a number'. That's not the goal right now. The goal now is to get you COMFORTABLE approaching anyone anytime.

There's an old saying "If I knew then what I know now..." You, my young friend, are in the position to soon say "Yes, I know NOW."

The crawling stage sucks, there's no other way around it... but it's progress - every time.

Mega-props for the BF stealing her name line. That was fucking genius! Thanks, I'm stealing that.

RR

_________________
Women are like ceramic tile.... if you do the prep work, and lay them properly the first time...you can walk all over them for years to come.

Focus on your vibe, not words

Come across as open - develop your social skills

Keep talking to more people and you'll understand how to open every convo more easily

Thanks for the feedback guys...I'm much more motivated than I was Saturday.

RR, I didn't approach that many girls because I'm from a small town. I'm havin a hard time finding HBs. I do go to Munich sometimes though so I'll do tons of approaches over there, HBs everywhere. I feel pretty comfortable in a convo, but opening is the worst part, indirect feels fake, direct creeps girls our and situational is rare. I guess I gotta work on my delivery and appearance.

I'll keep on hustlin' lol. Sooner or later I'll get there. What matters is I'm still having fun and I'm learning. Right now I wanna focus on just being relaxed and correcting my mistakes. Different openers, more chatting, teasing etc. The opener really is the hardest part.

Open everybody. Change your daily routine to go somewhere different everyday. A different store, restaurant, gas station, grocery store, newspaper stand - always vary your routine and open everyone you see, especially those who work there. You'll start getting so comfortable you don't even think about opening a hot chick vice opening a dude - it'll be natural regardless.

_________________
Women are like ceramic tile.... if you do the prep work, and lay them properly the first time...you can walk all over them for years to come.

I did another two approaches on my way home from school today, I have a total 20 (I didn't all write them down here because they're kinda similar, I just picked the ones that stood out).

This one today was kinda memorable:
I see this girl walking out of a clothing store...prior to her (she's about an I hadn't approached in about 3 days. That was my longest dry spell since I started PU two weeks ago, so yeah, I was nervous. She has these shiny, leather-ish jeans on. Alas, a situational opener!

Me: Hey, I gotta tell you something!
Her: ... (I've become more persistent and ignoring me isn't gonna help her lol)
Me: I really like your jeans!
Her: Thank you...
Me: So what are they, leather or something?
Her: No, they're just really shiny denim.
Me: Cool, so where you going?
Her: Going in right here (store to our right), to get something to drink
Me: You gonna get me something too?
Her: nervous laugh

It's like most of my approaches...can't really start up a conversation. I can do it with classmates and stuff but strangers are just hard to handle. Girls become creeped out bla. I didn't think of any routines to memorize because I'm trying to focus on honesty instead of canned material, no good experiences with that. Also, I heard if you freestyle now, it will pay off in the long run. I wanna become better with people in general, so that sounds like a plan to me.

My 'verdict' after 20 approaches: it's time for a break. Something about my appearance must be creeping girls out. I know that I'm not completely happy either: I'm 18, so I still have acne (used to be worse) and I got some new prescription stuff that should help. I definitely wanna have clean skin before I continue, it WILL improve my chances. Plus, I'm like 20 pounds overweight. That doesn't bother me much, but who wouldn't like to get lean? I could combine that with improving my social skills by joining a sports club, probably kickboxing. I always wanted to do that. I figure I gotta 'max out' in general before I start approaching.

Because when I'm honest, out of all 20 approaches, only 4 or so really hooked. Adding to that, I'm not happy with my looks and I could use some conversational skills, so I guess that's where I'll be going. Of course, if I see a cute girl by herself somewhere and she seems approachable, I'll do it, but no more 2h sarging tours for now.

What do you guys think about what I wrote? Is it smart to take a break until I max out? What about the transition after a direct opener? I chat away but the girls just don't "take the bait"... I try to just have fun and be outcome independent, but like 16 failed approaches kinda give you this feeling "why try?".

Just writing this, I notice I sound like a whiny bitch lol.

Yeah, you do....

Dude, giving up right now will haunt you.

You made 16 approaches? That's a drop in the bucket! That's seriously NOTHING in the scheme of things. I've been flat-rejected by at least 16 women this year alone. So what? I've fucked almost 40 - so it balances out.

You need to focus on the goal - not the outcome of an opener.

Right now, your goal isn't to open a great set, get a number, escalate and F-close.... You're not ready for that - and you'll get frustrated.

Your goal right now is to become COMFORTABLE in set. That's it! There's ONLY one way to do that - and that's to engage people and simply converse - - - THEN you advance the set.

Giving up won't help. You've seen behind the wizard's curtain - you know it's out there, and you'll be pissed for walking away from it.

RR

_________________
Women are like ceramic tile.... if you do the prep work, and lay them properly the first time...you can walk all over them for years to come.

Thanks dude, that and me having this awesome convo with my perfect 10 after class really kicked my ass.

I kinda had an epiphany today...I was reading this blog entry by Nick Hoss and he said the opener was just an excuse for a convo. It hit me like a brick shit house! I had been pussying on about the opener so much but what comes afterwards truly matters. I'm trying to rebuild the whole situation of me seeing the cute blonde in the games department...that was by far my best effort.

I know where my mistakes are, I know where I need to improve. So I guess it's back to square one, only this time I'm smarter. I'll do maxing out on the side. I'm just 18, but I ain't got time to waste