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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:50 pm 
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I hear a lot about this and I'm beginning to think its bullshit. Personally, I find when I roll out with girls, I'm less likely to open random birds and hence less likely to pump my state. I also find that birds in the club DON'T GIVE A SHIT that you are already with girls, I've NEVER been opened cause I was having a friendly conversation with a girl I knew.

Oddly enough, I heard Tyler in one of his rsdfreetour vids saying that he "doesn't really believe in social proof, cause everyone is in their own little world anyway". This really struck a chord with me. I'd love to hear some counter examples.

AFCadam if you're listening, I'm calling bullshit.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:14 pm 
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I hear a lot about this and I'm beginning to think its bullshit. Personally, I find when I roll out with girls, I'm less likely to open random birds and hence less likely to pump my state. I also find that birds in the club DON'T GIVE A SHIT that you are already with girls, I've NEVER been opened cause I was having a friendly conversation with a girl I knew.

Oddly enough, I heard Tyler in one of his rsdfreetour vids saying that he "doesn't really believe in social proof, cause everyone is in their own little world anyway". This really struck a chord with me. I'd love to hear some counter examples.

AFCadam if you're listening, I'm calling bullshit.

Being with women give you an advantage, abundance stuff, i do not like going out with women, i have female friends at the club, does it give you an advantage? yes and no... Yes: helps you with social proof and women like to compete...

No: you have more pressure, cause if you get blown out, your friends saw the incident... and when you approach that can ad to your approach anxiety...

what is the pump on my state: you do not need to pump up your state, that is mental masturbation... Just go to the club relax, do not put pressure on yourself to open... Relax let shit flow... don't try hard...

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:39 pm 
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You can practice indirect rejection free game skills. Go up joke around (not over responsively hit on them), become attractive, build a connection, escalate building sexual tension. 1-2-3.

I prefer to go out with friends but, I also don't stay with the group. This does two things: Grants social proof and creates a safe home.

So if shit sucks you have somewhere to go and that's back to your group. Plus it puts me in a social mood and I can socialize with more people easier. I'm usually the center of attention in my group so everyone looks to me anyways. After this happen everyone outside the group looks at me as well (people tend to wonder why). It's a pretty good tactic. I prefer groups of 3, that way I can disappear on my friends and they have each other for company. Any bigger a group and I'm usually just a acquaintance (happens with frequency), I just come and go as I please.

Friends won't talk shit to you if you get blown out. Good friends might joke but it won't be something that changes their value of you. We've all failed, anyone who says they haven't is lying, so if they blow you out who cares, I know I wouldn't change my opinion of anyone if they got blown out, Mystery, Style, SA, Chief, Gambit, everyone has been blown out. Who cares.

The blow out is only made big by your mind, you have the power to make it a blow out or a who the fuck cares rejection. I'm not embarrassed to fail, I'm embarrassed to never try, that should be your exact mindset.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:07 pm 
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Social proofing only works to an extent. Like the preveious poster put. Its more of a safehome then anything. relying on it along will not get you no where. It can also create or break the mood depending on who you are with. Yes everyone is in there own little world, you have to make it so that they want to become in "your" own little world. Make it so that there little world seem like shit compared to yours.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:34 pm 
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social proof tends to be more useful if you already have investment from a bunch of girls, if you open up about 4 girls or more and keep moving on and opening more in their area just flirting around but only being social they will be more likely to pay attention if you did something they found interesting when you opened, if you continue to leave good impressions on the people you are talking to it will warm a re-approach and in some cases can start to make girls jealous depending on your game

also if you are really close and opening/merging people together running around in a giant bar cluster fuck, talking to people, if you can stealthily get in with a few people in the bar and others see you talking in a small vicinity to other people and those people responding well, it is human nature, monkey see, monkey do, how ever it is pretty reasonable that in some club settings social proof is diminished in certain areas, someone has to actually see the proof

proof is just all about social perception, if you see a homeless guy covered in pee on the street when long greasy tangled hair and smells like booze and piss, you probably wouldn't want to hang out with him and go clubbing as much as the multi billionaire dude that picks you up in his Ferrari to go to the club where hes going to park out front and have the bouncers watching it for him, no line no cover,

^ this is social proof, there are varying degrees, think of it as the exact same for you as it is for a girl, if you meet a guy, lets see he is ugly, but dressed well, now, hes with these two girls who are your friends, the one girl brought him along as her date, these chicks vanish for like 30 minutes taking a group shit or something, having a long girl talk, who knows, so anyways you have to get to know this guy, now this chick with the guy who you are talking to, think about talking with him if his date weighed 400lbs and was 50 years old sagging down to the knees, now think if his date was your idea of perfection, does all of a sudden your social perception of him change? if he was rich vs poor, does your social perception change?

social proof can just be that minor little wedge in your gold club bag, it just gives you a slight advantage, if you are already perceived slightly positive, bonus points on open, if people are coming up to you all the time and you look cool, then your time is valuable people will respect it more, it is all social perception


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:59 pm 
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social proof can just be that minor little wedge in your gold club bag, it just gives you a slight advantage
My experience in the real world has been exactly this, but I'd also argue that a lot of the time it can be big disadvantage, because it makes you lazy.

When you hear the "worlds greatest pickup artist" claiming that social proof is the golden ticket that is somehow going to turn you into a pimp, you really have to wonder about the guy. You also have to wonder about whoever the hell has been voting him "the worlds greatest pickup artist".


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:09 pm 
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social proof can just be that minor little wedge in your gold club bag, it just gives you a slight advantage
My experience in the real world has been exactly this, but I'd also argue that a lot of the time it can be big disadvantage, because it makes you lazy.

When you hear the "worlds greatest pickup artist" claiming that social proof is the golden ticket that is somehow going to turn you into a pimp, you really have to wonder about the guy. You also have to wonder about whoever the hell has been voting him "the worlds greatest pickup artist".
well if you think about it, social proof has the potential to take you extremely far,

just think gene simmons, he has claimed to have slept with 2000 women, you can bet gene has quite a bit of social proof involved in his game


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:27 pm 
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social proof can just be that minor little wedge in your gold club bag, it just gives you a slight advantage
My experience in the real world has been exactly this, but I'd also argue that a lot of the time it can be big disadvantage, because it makes you lazy.

When you hear the "worlds greatest pickup artist" claiming that social proof is the golden ticket that is somehow going to turn you into a pimp, you really have to wonder about the guy. You also have to wonder about whoever the hell has been voting him "the worlds greatest pickup artist".
well if you think about it, social proof has the potential to take you extremely far,

just think gene simmons, he has claimed to have slept with 2000 women, you can bet gene has quite a bit of social proof involved in his game

Gene semmons is famous and rich... nothing to do with social proof, the dude is a Rock Start...

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:06 pm 
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Quote:
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social proof can just be that minor little wedge in your gold club bag, it just gives you a slight advantage
My experience in the real world has been exactly this, but I'd also argue that a lot of the time it can be big disadvantage, because it makes you lazy.

When you hear the "worlds greatest pickup artist" claiming that social proof is the golden ticket that is somehow going to turn you into a pimp, you really have to wonder about the guy. You also have to wonder about whoever the hell has been voting him "the worlds greatest pickup artist".
well if you think about it, social proof has the potential to take you extremely far,

just think gene simmons, he has claimed to have slept with 2000 women, you can bet gene has quite a bit of social proof involved in his game
I think that having a gold wedge or Ferrari is more having economic value that social proof. Economic value is when you drop your SPAM receipt and she sees you have 100k in the bank. It's the Gucci shit you are wearing. These all represent high economic value, in some areas they would hurt your social proof. If you hung with hipsters sporting Gucci they'd consider you low value a lot of times. So you are right it can end up social proof as well but the way you explain it is showing economic value.

Social proof is when you walk in shaking the bouncers hand with a group, then go up and say high to 5 people then hug the cute bar tender and get a drink discount. People know you, you have social value, proof of your value by your social life alone. I have a high social proof most places I go (I know a shit load of people).

They are separate forms of attraction is how I see it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:07 pm 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_proof

monkey see, monkey do, you see a person wearing expensive clothing you will treat him the way you perceive him, you see a guy with two hotties on his arms, both trying to make out with him, you will treat him the way you perceive him, if you see a guy that looks homeless you will treat him like he is homeless, if you see lots of people talking to one person you will have formed either a negative positive or neutral assumption of the person based on the way they are treated, good looking people also tend to be treated better on average, every bit of proof towards your social status or ''social value'' being higher you want to raise that proof, be seen in the club, proof yourself, positive perception grows and you can bring people together and more fun times will be had by all and eventually you become popular... and if your proof goes to insane levels, you become famous, or infamous

that is the point of social proof

a girl walks in a sees brad pitt after he got famous might treat the situation a bit different then before he got famous


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:03 am 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_proof

monkey see, monkey do, you see a person wearing expensive clothing you will treat him the way you perceive him, you see a guy with two hotties on his arms, both trying to make out with him, you will treat him the way you perceive him, if you see a guy that looks homeless you will treat him like he is homeless, if you see lots of people talking to one person you will have formed either a negative positive or neutral assumption of the person based on the way they are treated, good looking people also tend to be treated better on average, every bit of proof towards your social status or ''social value'' being higher you want to raise that proof, be seen in the club, proof yourself, positive perception grows and you can bring people together and more fun times will be had by all and eventually you become popular... and if your proof goes to insane levels, you become famous, or infamous

that is the point of social proof

a girl walks in a sees brad pitt after he got famous might treat the situation a bit different then before he got famous
Based off what I just read (your link), social proof isn't something you want in pick up. You don't want to fit in, forget that. Fitting in is overrated, I'd prefer to be a trend setter not a trend follower. I never want someone to think "I qualify with their style", I'm me, nobody else. Why on earth would I want that kind of social proof? Individuality is the new social proof (you can get custom ANYTHING), wearing the same as someone else is unacceptable. Now of course I also understand there are boundaries, wearing a tux to the pub may be over kill.

You also proved my other point about social proof with your statement you roll up to some spots in a Ferrari or with a set of leather kicks on you are fucked, that isn't social proof you are some dude that kills the world for a cool car or a douche who skinned an animal for a pair of kicks. Social proof isn't just about gold, money, cars, it's about fitting in with the people you are with now.

Edit:

Just thought of a great example My uncle is a very good well known Dr. through out So Cal. My Dad is a carpenter, a very good carpenter at that, been the foreman on schools, Disneyland, and California Adventures.

Now if my Uncle went into my Dad's world he wouldn't have the same social proof even though he makes probably over 10 times what my Dad makes. If he tried to work on a job site they'd laugh him off of it. My Uncle would have HORRIBLE social proof even with all the money he makes.

At the same time if my Dad went and worked with my Uncle or tried to help he would likely be laughed out the office, he wouldn't have any social proof even though he is a very well respected carpenter through So Cal.

A businessman has very little social proof among surfers even with a better income(in most cases).

A Surfer has very little (if any) social proof with businessman even though he can do shit most businessmen could never do.

Social Proof is not related to economic value but to the culture at hand. It is being accepted and praised by your CURRENT peers. This can be related to economic value but certainly not always.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:07 pm 
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Based off what I just read (your link), social proof isn't something you want in pick up. You don't want to fit in, forget that. Fitting in is overrated, I'd prefer to be a trend setter not a trend follower. I never want someone to think "I qualify with their style", I'm me, nobody else. Why on earth would I want that kind of social proof? Individuality is the new social proof (you can get custom ANYTHING), wearing the same as someone else is unacceptable. Now of course I also understand there are boundaries, wearing a tux to the pub may be over kill.

You also proved my other point about social proof with your statement you roll up to some spots in a Ferrari or with a set of leather kicks on you are fucked, that isn't social proof you are some dude that kills the world for a cool car or a douche who skinned an animal for a pair of kicks. Social proof isn't just about gold, money, cars, it's about fitting in with the people you are with now.

Edit:

Just thought of a great example My uncle is a very good well known Dr. through out So Cal. My Dad is a carpenter, a very good carpenter at that, been the foreman on schools, Disneyland, and California Adventures.

Now if my Uncle went into my Dad's world he wouldn't have the same social proof even though he makes probably over 10 times what my Dad makes. If he tried to work on a job site they'd laugh him off of it. My Uncle would have HORRIBLE social proof even with all the money he makes.

At the same time if my Dad went and worked with my Uncle or tried to help he would likely be laughed out the office, he wouldn't have any social proof even though he is a very well respected carpenter through So Cal.

A businessman has very little social proof among surfers even with a better income(in most cases).

A Surfer has very little (if any) social proof with businessman even though he can do shit most businessmen could never do.

Social Proof is not related to economic value but to the culture at hand. It is being accepted and praised by your CURRENT peers. This can be related to economic value but certainly not always.
social proof has nothing to do with being forced to fit in, rather exploiting the phenomenon that is ''group think'', if you are seen dressed as ''punk rocker'' you will be treated by others how the perceive they should treat a ''punk rocker'' due to ''group think''

you absolutely do not have to start changing who you are to get a girl, that was not really the point of my post, the point was if you are into emo girls, being emo yourself, or someone who appeals to a certain niche or stereotype by fitting a niche or stereotype will be able to game their targets easier due to being ''socially proofed'' before entering set, will help raise your value through social proof, it is just setting a preconceived perception of yourself, if you like what you see before you talk with it, you will respond better, and how ever you perceive a person will effect how you interact with them

as for a difference between financial status and social status, you are right, they are not the same thing, but financial status directly correlates to a persons social status and has a direct immediate effect on a person's ability shape their lifestyle/image

social proof can be thought of as the ''proof'' of your social status, and social status can be thought of as a combination of health/wealth/interpersonal relationships, the more you have of these things, the more you can generate ''proof'' around that, more women on your arms, more friends, better dressed, more money, looking more ripped


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:56 am 
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I was referring to my style when I was talking about changing. I don't discriminate against women, style means no matter as long as they meet my standards(emotionally, physically, and mentally). Your style should never cap off your ability to build attraction with any style of woman, though it may limit your initial attraction. Either you got the skills to build attraction or you don't, this is my own personal experience.

Your approval of the herd is very contextual to the herd you are dealing with. A wildebeest doesn't fit in with cows, horses wouldn't herd with giraffes, your herd is very contextual. What's with this forum and ignoring context? IOIs, Social Proof, Everything is contextual.

A millionaire is rich but among billionaires is he? Hell in the neighborhood I work 100k is considered rich. In one neighborhood you are poor in the next you are the wealthiest. Everything needs to put into context, this is really my argument. Wealth doesn't give you nearly as high of a social status as having built a ton of great relationship.

Here is how I illustrate my social proof I walk in happen to know a bit of the staff, shake some of their hands and socialize with them. I say hi to the 3 or 4 other people I know as well. I show my social approval to the "herd" with me knowing everyone. "Who is that guy?" "Why do all these people know him?"

Financial status does NOT correlate with social status. I completely disagree. My social status is far higher than my financial status. I joke around that "I'm fucken famous!" because I know so many people. My social skills are phenomenal and my body language great, I can get into so many clubs free off of just my social status, not my financial status. Social status has everything to do with your ability to build relationships where ever you go, life is all about building relationships.

I know some extremely wealthy people that have zero social status, hell I know a guy that makes millions of dollars with no worries, if you met him you'd see he has ZERO social skills, if you see him at the bar you'd say he had no low social status. I did meet him at the bar, I wasn't impressed. I thought he was some low class poorer man. Social status literally has zero to do with it, social skills on the other hand have everything to do with social status.

Your social status directly relates to your social skills and your ability to build relationship.

Your social status need to be put into the context of your current peers.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:44 pm 
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I was referring to my style when I was talking about changing. I don't discriminate against women, style means no matter as long as they meet my standards(emotionally, physically, and mentally). Your style should never cap off your ability to build attraction with any style of woman, though it may limit your initial attraction. Either you got the skills to build attraction or you don't, this is my own personal experience.

Your approval of the herd is very contextual to the herd you are dealing with. A wildebeest doesn't fit in with cows, horses wouldn't herd with giraffes, your herd is very contextual. What's with this forum and ignoring context? IOIs, Social Proof, Everything is contextual.

A millionaire is rich but among billionaires is he? Hell in the neighborhood I work 100k is considered rich. In one neighborhood you are poor in the next you are the wealthiest. Everything needs to put into context, this is really my argument. Wealth doesn't give you nearly as high of a social status as having built a ton of great relationship.

Here is how I illustrate my social proof I walk in happen to know a bit of the staff, shake some of their hands and socialize with them. I say hi to the 3 or 4 other people I know as well. I show my social approval to the "herd" with me knowing everyone. "Who is that guy?" "Why do all these people know him?"

Financial status does NOT correlate with social status. I completely disagree. My social status is far higher than my financial status. I joke around that "I'm fucken famous!" because I know so many people. My social skills are phenomenal and my body language great, I can get into so many clubs free off of just my social status, not my financial status. Social status has everything to do with your ability to build relationships where ever you go, life is all about building relationships.

I know some extremely wealthy people that have zero social status, hell I know a guy that makes millions of dollars with no worries, if you met him you'd see he has ZERO social skills, if you see him at the bar you'd say he had no low social status. I did meet him at the bar, I wasn't impressed. I thought he was some low class poorer man. Social status literally has zero to do with it, social skills on the other hand have everything to do with social status.

Your social status directly relates to your social skills and your ability to build relationship.

Your social status need to be put into the context of your current peers.

^ Very good poetic, i did a post on the subject:

the-lifestyle-game-bullshit-vt134071.html?highlight=



Anyways back to the entourage game, having women as wing helps tons if they are hot, my point is it MAY make you comfortable and hesitate in some instance(kind of approach anxiety) you may think "if i get blown out they may see the incident" , the probability of getting blown out, is almost none existent if you are with hot women, if you open just in a i am just a social guy, being social frame... But back to the main point, you do not need it, it does help but is as op intended to illustrate a bit overrated... As i have been saying the best thing is "cold approaching" a step above that is (warm approaching)"solo sarging" but knowing and being social with everybody in the venue...If you do have friends "awesome" just drive in separate cars..

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:11 pm 
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any type of game will work - even AFC game works

its all about vibe and being validated. If you have that as the basis, and can keep a conversation with a chick, anything is possible.


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