Fake IoI's



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:31 am 
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Here I got a great example of why I hate IOIs, this is everything a Hair Preen can be.

A hair preen
1. Attraction
2. Arousal
3. Hair in face
4. Lying
5. Bluffing in Poker(Lying)
6. Idiosyncratic Behavior
7. Mirroing
8. Insecurity
9. Discomfort/Pacifying


That is off the top of my head what a hair preen can be from. Seriously one signal means shit. The combination of the eye contact, preen, smile, look down, is the story. Never base attraction off of an IOI but the complete body language involved.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:41 am 
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OHHHHHH. And IOI;s are in the books about body language, sooooo they teach about them in the books, stop arguing for sake of arguing. They in fact do write books about IOI's

If U looked over your posts you would see you didnt know about IOI, you thought they were just body language.

So instead of trying to come off as an expert, learn something.

You didnt know, now you are more educated. There are more IOI's than body language
LOL you said SCIENTISTS write books on IOIs that is bull shit. They don't, they write books on the nonverbal behavior of courtship. This includes signs of attraction and steps in the attraction process. You need to figure this shit out dude. You aren't that smart. You don't know your shit.

Look over my posts? Have you looked over them? Did you read my nearly 900 posts? Another 80 videos plus my blog? Hell just watch my body language videos, read my one thread, and my blog. Let me know what you think of my knowledge. And my knowledge is much larger since the thread.

Come off as an expert? LOL I've read more on subject of body language then you've like read in the last 5 years. I'm going to for the very first time refer to myself as a Body Language Expert. Around the forum I am considered the local Body Language Expert. They referred to me as such not me, but as I am getting considered one by many more than myself. (Always improving my body language reading)

Now young man if you would like to learn something about body language, ask I can teach you. IOI pick up term, not a scientific term. IOI is one signal. Body Language is the whole picture. If you'd like I can teach you but need to learn to open up buddy.(yes I do mean to be condescending you)

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Last edited by poeticlyskuac on Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:46 am 
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OHHHHHH. And IOI;s are in the books about body language, sooooo they teach about them in the books, stop arguing for sake of arguing. They in fact do write books about IOI's

If U looked over your posts you would see you didnt know about IOI, you thought they were just body language.

So instead of trying to come off as an expert, learn something.

You didnt know, now you are more educated. There are more IOI's than body language
LOL you said SCIENTISTS write books on IOIs that is bull shit. They don't, they write books on the nonverbal behavior of courtship. This includes signs of attraction and steps in the attraction process. You need to figure this shit out dude. You aren't that smart. You don't know your shit.

Look over my posts? Have you looked over them? Did you read my nearly 900 posts? Another 80 videos plus my blog? Hell just watch my body language videos, read my one thread, and my blog. Let me know what you think of my knowledge. And my knowledge is much bigger since the thread.

Come off as an expert? LOL I've read more on subject of body language then you've like read in the last 5 years. I'm going to for the very first time refer to myself as a Body Language Expert. Around the forum I am considered the local Body Language Expert. They referred to me as such not me, but as I am getting considered one by many more than myself. (Always improving my body language reading)

Now young man if you would like to learn something about body language, ask I can teach you. IOI pick up term, not a scientific term. IOI is one signal. Body Language is the whole picture. If you'd like I can teach you but need to learn to open up buddy.(yes I do mean to be condescending you)
You were schooled, IOI's are not restricted to body language.

You are twisting words to appear smart. They have chapters on IOI in books they write.

But you wont admit to being wrong.

Body language can be just as fucked up to figure out as IOI's. Ive you ever watched body language experts on FOX News or something, two experts disagree most of the time.

But Im glad we were able to educate you a bit.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:00 am 
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LOL

I'll put it to you like this I won my first poker tournament off of body language. I've won several tournaments based on solely body language(learned to the science of poker probably after I won5 tournaments). You are going to compare some people that made it on fox? Hell I went on some guys blog today and corrected his "Expert Body Language" blog. Experts I've come across don't read as much as I do so they don't draw from nearly as many sources. Most hit a ceiling and quit studying, I've yet to quit learning MORE.

Body language is definitely easy to get wrong, but that is why I hate IOIs so much they lie more than they tell the truth. Learn to read body language, not recognize 20 different IOIs.

Twisting words to appear intelligent would be how you'd like to put it. I won't admit to being wrong because when you read a book by a biologist, anthropologist, or zoologist they talk about signals, and courtship signals NOT IOIs. Am I basing my shit off of scientific readings? Yes, are you? NO. I've read shit that got men PHDs on courtship, you are just some guy who thinks he knows his shit another narcissistic gentlemen teaching poor thoughts.

Signals all add up to a message. Body language is all of these signals. An IOI- Indicator of Interest NOT BODY LANGUAGE. It can be a body language signal but body language is not one signal. You seem to think it is. A signal changes based off of idiosyncratic behaviors, context, consistency, congruency, base lining, clusters, and timing. Body language isn't limited you to one meaning, it never will be.

I like how you try and undervalue expert now that I called myself one, trying to undermine my credibility. LOL Sucks losing when you talk shit doesn't it?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:19 am 
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Quote:
LOL

I'll put it to you like this I won my first poker tournament off of body language. I've won several tournaments based on solely body language(learned to the science of poker probably after I won5 tournaments). You are going to compare some people that made it on fox? Hell I went on some guys blog today and corrected his "Expert Body Language" blog. Experts I've come across don't read as much as I do so they don't draw from nearly as many sources. Most hit a ceiling and quit studying, I've yet to quit learning MORE.

Body language is definitely easy to get wrong, but that is why I hate IOIs so much they lie more than they tell the truth. Learn to read body language, not recognize 20 different IOIs.

Twisting words to appear intelligent would be how you'd like to put it. I won't admit to being wrong because when you read a book by a biologist, anthropologist, or zoologist they talk about signals, and courtship signals NOT IOIs. Am I basing my shit off of scientific readings? Yes, are you? NO. I've read shit that got men PHDs on courtship, you are just some guy who thinks he knows his shit another narcissistic gentlemen teaching poor thoughts.

Signals all add up to a message. Body language is all of these signals. An IOI- Indicator of Interest NOT BODY LANGUAGE. It can be a body language signal but body language is not one signal. You seem to think it is. A signal changes based off of idiosyncratic behaviors, context, consistency, congruency, base lining, clusters, and timing. Body language isn't limited you to one meaning, it never will be.

I like how you try and undervalue expert now that I called myself one, trying to undermine my credibility. LOL Sucks losing when you talk shit doesn't it?
Oh really, so you should be able to beat me in Poker hey?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:19 am 
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@OP

There is no such things as a fake IOI just mis-interpretations by the observer.

All women love to give off attraction cue's in fact the better they look the more they will do it, a lot are actually unconscious mannerisms, but don't get me wrong, they also do quite a bit of them consciously, especially if they are in fact interested.

Even when a stripper is trying to fill her nightly quota of lap dances, she is giving off IOI's but they are not fake, she may not want to fuck you, but she still has an interest. ( her own interest) Such is the same with attractive women that spent 2 hours looking good. To be efficient in pick up, you must dictate her reaction of your own actions.

This does not make it an open invitation to approach. An approach invitation will usually always weigh heavy on eye contact. and an accumulation of a group or set of IOI's as well as many other aspects to consider. One of the most important things to consider is her entire body position as well as your present elements. If she is sitting there dressed to kill, sipping on a glass of wine and looks like there is no way she should be alone, there is usually a reason for it.(waiting for a man)

If you are an educated man within the art of seduction and wondering if you should approach, you should be observing everything. Not just some silly little typical mannerisms that most women do to gain attention.

I have approached thousands of women in my lifetime. I have never once encountered what you speak of. If you are skilled enough you learn to send your own micro-approaches before you even approach. ( a simple smile, a head nod, a wink....anything to get into her reality) You need to make her react to you, rather then you reacting to her. You must dictate your interaction, not assume.

Wait for an approach cue, if it doesn't happen, you don't approach. Especially a well dressed woman sitting alone probably in the early hours of an evening. Your current setting and probability should always factor into your observations.

With all this being said, rather then blaming the woman on giving you false IOI's I'd suggest learning to dictate the situation, seek specific cue's by creating them yourself, get her to react to you. Not the other way around. If she reacts the way you were hoping or expecting, and your intuition tells you to go for it. THEN GO FOR IT.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:21 am 
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Quote:
LOL

I'll put it to you like this I won my first poker tournament off of body language. I've won several tournaments based on solely body language(learned to the science of poker probably after I won5 tournaments). You are going to compare some people that made it on fox? Hell I went on some guys blog today and corrected his "Expert Body Language" blog. Experts I've come across don't read as much as I do so they don't draw from nearly as many sources. Most hit a ceiling and quit studying, I've yet to quit learning MORE.

Body language is definitely easy to get wrong, but that is why I hate IOIs so much they lie more than they tell the truth. Learn to read body language, not recognize 20 different IOIs.

Twisting words to appear intelligent would be how you'd like to put it. I won't admit to being wrong because when you read a book by a biologist, anthropologist, or zoologist they talk about signals, and courtship signals NOT IOIs. Am I basing my shit off of scientific readings? Yes, are you? NO. I've read shit that got men PHDs on courtship, you are just some guy who thinks he knows his shit another narcissistic gentlemen teaching poor thoughts.

Signals all add up to a message. Body language is all of these signals. An IOI- Indicator of Interest NOT BODY LANGUAGE. It can be a body language signal but body language is not one signal. You seem to think it is. A signal changes based off of idiosyncratic behaviors, context, consistency, congruency, base lining, clusters, and timing. Body language isn't limited you to one meaning, it never will be.

I like how you try and undervalue expert now that I called myself one, trying to undermine my credibility. LOL Sucks losing when you talk shit doesn't it?
Oh really, so you should be able to beat me in Poker hey?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:23 am 
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Quote:
LOL

I'll put it to you like this I won my first poker tournament off of body language. I've won several tournaments based on solely body language(learned to the science of poker probably after I won5 tournaments). You are going to compare some people that made it on fox? Hell I went on some guys blog today and corrected his "Expert Body Language" blog. Experts I've come across don't read as much as I do so they don't draw from nearly as many sources. Most hit a ceiling and quit studying, I've yet to quit learning MORE.

Body language is definitely easy to get wrong, but that is why I hate IOIs so much they lie more than they tell the truth. Learn to read body language, not recognize 20 different IOIs.

Twisting words to appear intelligent would be how you'd like to put it. I won't admit to being wrong because when you read a book by a biologist, anthropologist, or zoologist they talk about signals, and courtship signals NOT IOIs. Am I basing my shit off of scientific readings? Yes, are you? NO. I've read shit that got men PHDs on courtship, you are just some guy who thinks he knows his shit another narcissistic gentlemen teaching poor thoughts.

Signals all add up to a message. Body language is all of these signals. An IOI- Indicator of Interest NOT BODY LANGUAGE. It can be a body language signal but body language is not one signal. You seem to think it is. A signal changes based off of idiosyncratic behaviors, context, consistency, congruency, base lining, clusters, and timing. Body language isn't limited you to one meaning, it never will be.

I like how you try and undervalue expert now that I called myself one, trying to undermine my credibility. LOL Sucks losing when you talk shit doesn't it?
Oh really, so you should be able to beat me in Poker hey?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:29 am 
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Quote:
@OP

There is no such things as a fake IOI just mis-interpretations by the observer.

All women love to give off attraction cue's in fact the better they look the more they will do it, a lot are actually unconscious mannerisms, but don't get me wrong, they also do quite a bit of them consciously, especially if they are in fact interested.

Even when a stripper is trying to fill her nightly quota of lap dances, she is giving off IOI's but they are not fake, she may not want to fuck you, but she still has an interest. ( her own interest) Such is the same with attractive women that spent 2 hours looking good. To be efficient in pick up, you must dictate her reaction of your own actions.

This does not make it an open invitation to approach. An approach invitation will usually always weigh heavy on eye contact. and an accumulation of a group or set of IOI's as well as many other aspects to consider. One of the most important things to consider is her entire body position as well as your present elements. If she is sitting there dressed to kill, sipping on a glass of wine and looks like there is no way she should be alone, there is usually a reason for it.(waiting for a man)

If you are an educated man within the art of seduction and wondering if you should approach, you should be observing everything. Not just some silly little typical mannerisms that most women do to gain attention.

I have approached thousands of women in my lifetime. I have never once encountered what you speak of. If you are skilled enough you learn to send your own micro-approaches before you even approach. ( a simple smile, a head nod, a wink....anything to get into her reality) You need to make her react to you, rather then you reacting to her. You must dictate your interaction, not assume.

Wait for an approach cue, if it doesn't happen, you don't approach. Especially a well dressed woman sitting alone probably in the early hours of an evening. Your current setting and probability should always factor into your observations.

With all this being said, rather then blaming the woman on giving you false IOI's I'd suggest learning to dictate the situation, seek specific cue's by creating them yourself, get her to react to you. Not the other way around. If she reacts the way you were hoping or expecting, and your intuition tells you to go for it. THEN GO FOR IT.
all women have an interest for themselves.

Fake IOIS

Full Definition:

Women can sometimes give fake IOIs such as smiling, bantering, or flirting, in a way that implies that they are interested in a man, even when they aren’t– instead using their attention as a way to gain something from the man.

Hired guns such as store sales girls and waitresses will often flirt heavily with their customers, even going so far as to make them believe that they are genuinely interested in them, in order to receive big tips and other gifts from their customers. AFCs who are not properly calibrated may mistake such fake IOIs for genuine interest, and savvy hired guns will take advantage of the approval seeking behavior of AFCs for their own gain.

In the field, fake IOIs are often given by unscrupulous women looking for free drinks, who pretend to be interested in a man, just so that they can gain access to his wallet. The worst case of these are gold diggers, who get into relationships with wealthier men whom they are not interested in, just so that they can use his money.

PUAs should learn to become aware of fake IOIs through calibration and by using congruence tests to determine whether a woman is genuinely interested in them. When ferreting out fake IOIs, it is often helpful to examine the woman’s body language, as a woman might be willing to say anything to get what she wants, but her body will react unconsciously to the PUA’s advances, if she does not truly feel what she is saying.

Usage:

The waitress was just kino’ing you for a higher tip, those were fake IOIs.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:33 am 
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Oh really, so you should be able to beat me in Poker hey?
I am not terrified to face anyone in a poker tourney everyone gives off signs(when I watch pros I know), whether that is freeze or pacifying behaviors. Skin tone or pupil dilation. Blink rate or torso. Everyone gives off signals.

Could you win? Absolutely that's poker, I'd be a straight liar if I said I'll beat you every time, anyone would be. However when someone catches you lying, knows when your strong, knows when your weak, you tend to lose more often, especially heads up.

You learn to study poker behaviors, people are predictable, you don't find a rhythm you destroy theirs. I've called nut flushes on cards, boats, straights, sets, long story short I may not be the best poker player but I'm annoying on a poker table because I scrutinize your microexpressions, pacifying behaviors, breathing pattern, micro pacifying behaviors, shall I go on?

As I said not the best poker player but I'm scary on a table.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:39 am 
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All you keep proving is my point fuck learning IOIs learn to read actual body language. Your last source points at exactly what I mean, learn to read body language. Do you understand LEARN TO READ BODY LANGUAGE. Sheez it's like you can't figure out you are agreeing with my point. Don't read IOI learn to read body language. See how many times I said that? I wonder why.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:41 am 
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PUAs should learn to become aware of fake IOIs through calibration and by using congruence tests to determine whether a woman is genuinely interested in them. When ferreting out fake IOIs, it is often helpful to examine the woman’s body language, as a woman might be willing to say anything to get what she wants, but her body will react unconsciously to the PUA’s advances, if she does not truly feel what she is saying..
This is exactly my point. Where was this mentality within your initial post? Do you not see the irony here?

And as I said before, if they are doing it for their own interest, it is still a real IOI's. It's up to you as the observer to distinguish whether or not its for her self interest or interest in you.

I worked in the night club industry for over a decade including owning and operating my own night club, I am fully aware of the lure of women for profit. I also am pretty aware of how to distinguish the difference.

Perhaps rather then let your ego get the better of you in this situation, its best to listen up. You may just learn a thing or two. And please don't try the age card with me. I have been picking up women successfully for over 20 years.

You have some valid points, but they do contradict your initial post.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:40 am 
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Quote:
PUAs should learn to become aware of fake IOIs through calibration and by using congruence tests to determine whether a woman is genuinely interested in them. When ferreting out fake IOIs, it is often helpful to examine the woman’s body language, as a woman might be willing to say anything to get what she wants, but her body will react unconsciously to the PUA’s advances, if she does not truly feel what she is saying..
This is exactly my point. Where was this mentality within your initial post? Do you not see the irony here?

And as I said before, if they are doing it for their own interest, it is still a real IOI's. It's up to you as the observer to distinguish whether or not its for her self interest or interest in you.

I worked in the night club industry for over a decade including owning and operating my own night club, I am fully aware of the lure of women for profit. I also am pretty aware of how to distinguish the difference.

Perhaps rather then let your ego get the better of you in this situation, its best to listen up. You may just learn a thing or two. And please don't try the age card with me. I have been picking up women successfully for over 20 years.

You have some valid points, but they do contradict your initial post.
Again mincing words, Wheteher or not its for her is irrelavent. If shes signaling you to deceit you, it's a false IOI, she WASNT interested in you.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:45 am 
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Ones perception is in fact their own reality. This has become futile.

Good luck in your future approaches.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:50 am 
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Quote:
Oh really, so you should be able to beat me in Poker hey?
I am not terrified to face anyone in a poker tourney everyone gives off signs(when I watch pros I know), whether that is freeze or pacifying behaviors. Skin tone or pupil dilation. Blink rate or torso. Everyone gives off signals.

Could you win? Absolutely that's poker, I'd be a straight liar if I said I'll beat you every time, anyone would be. However when someone catches you lying, knows when your strong, knows when your weak, you tend to lose more often, especially heads up.

You learn to study poker behaviors, people are predictable, you don't find a rhythm you destroy theirs. I've called nut flushes on cards, boats, straights, sets, long story short I may not be the best poker player but I'm annoying on a poker table because I scrutinize your microexpressions, pacifying behaviors, breathing pattern, micro pacifying behaviors, shall I go on?

As I said not the best poker player but I'm scary on a table.
Well luck plays a role, no doubt, but if you think you;re going to win consistsently reading body language you are a noobie as they come.

Great poker players dont rely on "reading eyes" like kenny rogers the gambler. Poker is a game of numbers, the more cpacity you have to hold information and dissect probablities while sitting at a table playing, the better you will be.

Reading does not work on anybody that knows what they are doing, and I question if it works at all, if you wanna be good at poker be a good mathimatecian and play with zero emotional influences. The greats show no emotion. not because they dont want to be read, but because there is no room for emotion in a logical game


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