I read a lot of posts stating "when should I use direct game, when should I use indirect game. The fact of the matter their is no set or specific time to use either, it all depends on your target and current settings.

If I were to suggest one or the other, I would suggest indirect, as with indirect you can always still have the option to become direct, especially after some sort of comfort is established. But! if you crash and burn with direct, you are generally blown out and most likely will not be able to recover.

The idea behind this is, generally any approach is in essence a direct approach. Our body language usually dictates our physical interest. When men approach a good looking woman his attraction is usually implied( unconsciously) therefore there really isn't a need to be ultra direct.

As long as you imply your interest through out your conversation( conscious) it will have the same effect, but this way, you allow the woman more time to gauge you and come to terms with whether or not you are a creep or if she has interest, or that you jumped through her conscious self created hoops.

You also allow yourself the opportunity to change her initial perception. I have heard many women tell me after a seduction that at first they weren't really attracted to me, but after talking and laughing, etc etc, they became attracted, none of this would of been possible or at least much harder, if I went in ultra direct. This can also work in reverse, women love to hear that you find them more attractive now that you got to know them better, you can sometimes act as though you had no direct intentions until they intrigued you and now you are overwhelmingly attracted to them. This tends to give a woman a form of self validation and shows your attraction is not just skin deep.

Women have an automatic defense no matter how smooth or good looking you are. It's generally trained into their conscious minds, usually the better looking she is the more prevalent it is. Some call this a bitch shield. If you get good at interpreting body language, none of that matters as if they are interested, you will see it through their physical mannerisms. And if you are good enough can most likely be able to break through the Bitch shield, However! The majority of men are not good at reading the signs, therefore its best to stay indirect, with the intentions of progressing and becoming direct.

In my opinion the only real time to use direct game is if you already have social value, for example at a house party where you know the majority of people there, or within your social circle when there is friends of friends, etc etc. Any situation where you are sought out. If you are being approached by a woman, you can be direct, if you have already observed IOI's or essentially making a warm approach, you can be direct. If it's quite obvious the girl has interest in you, be direct.

In short, from my experience, it's best to open indirect with direct intentions.

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Seduce their mind and the rest will follow.

Give an example on what indirect direct intention is, cus Im a bit confused.

The community indirect, is opinion opener mystery method;

"can i get your opinion on something, who do you think lies more girls or guys?"(usually scripted)


Direct, i think you are cute, wanted to introduce myself see if your looks match your personality?

community direct or indirect, imo direct is better since you are time efficient..

now direct vs inderect vs SITUATIONAL...

Situational always will win, and have higher probability of success cause is in the moment and is spontaneous...


They all work it depends on who is executing the game, i personally open situationally...

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Using direct or indirect more depends on who you are not what is going on. What you say as an opener does depend on what is going on and the girl.

If you think of it in terms of marketing. You have soft leads and you have hard leads. Indirect Openers get you soft leads with women, you're more likely to get a lot of flakes, but a lot more numbers. Direct Openers will give you more rejection up front, but far more hard leads and women more likely to go with you.

This is only if you are only working with your opener. As in spending 2 minutes with your target. Did you read the initial post at all? Or are you just arguing the title?


Indirect or direct is just an opener, a girl flaking has everything to do with what comes after the opener.

What I suggest in this thread is that, being indirect can be more useful as it gives you more of an opportunity to intrigue her with your game. Instead of the girl giving you her trained response, like " I have a boy friend" or " I'm not interested" etc etc.

The idea behind this is to eventually show your interest regardless, you are just showing after you build some comfort rather then right away.

My type of indirect is not shit like opinion openers, its more like. "Hey there, i really like that tattoo, what does it mean" or "Those are some sick shoes, I'm not usually into women's fashion but they look really cool" My name is SA, put my hand out. Or You have a very unique look and style, I like that. Most people these days are typical. My name is SA, whats yours? I like your dance style, did you have any training. ( all these are observational and situational, but indirect non the less)

Or any type of funny situational comment. Even observing someone else wearing something ridiculous.

My point is, you can always tell a girl in the middle of the conversation that you find her attractive. I generally like to get some reads off my target before I invest my interest. I like to bring their guard down and look for signs of interest, when they are there, I will become direct, sexual, and begin my seduction.

I see dudes using direct all the time and getting blown out instantly, without even getting a chance to talk. When I was younger I was always direct, but it was always a crap shoot, especially in places like night clubs, when every other dude is doing the same thing.

_________________
Seduce their mind and the rest will follow.

Indirect with direct intentions, is you opening a girl indirectly to start a conversation, then throughout the conversation, you begin to show your interest ( direct) but you wait until you have established some rapport rather then showing your interest with your first words.

The thing is, most women have set responses to direct openers, especially if they are getting approached a lot. But if you throw them off with an indirect opener, you can engage her in conversation and have a better chance to show your wit, humor, game.

If you are getting blown out after your opener, all the game in the world isn't gonna matter. Indirect approach allows you the opportunity to spit your wit.

_________________
Seduce their mind and the rest will follow.

^^^ Like

Indirect, to me, just means when there is a reason to be there or an excuse whilst direct is simply stating you are there for her attraction or even just socialise (hey how's it going?) and there are varying measures.

I agree with SexAd that it is implied by the way you act, to a degree. The reason direct works, or at least so in theory, is that your boldness and cutting-to-the-chase means you can get any "What if's" about the situation out of it; essentially high risk/high return.

The objective of the indirect is to allow yourself the opportunity to become direct. I think everyone is putting too much emphasis on the opener. I know from my experience, approaching indirectly allows me much more wiggle room to work my game. My game is very direct, my openers are not.

If I don't get the appropriate signs of interest from her throughout our brief conversation I simply eject, but leaving on a high note. If that girls starts to show me unconscious signs of interest later, throughout the night I can easily re-engage her. Something I cannot do if she blew me out with a direct approach.

In a sense, it's putting myself into their world, getting into their heads. Women have no clue what they want, or who they want. If you were talking to her and not making a move right at that moment, she may decide later that you are the one she wants rather then the 5 other guys that walked up and approached directly. Getting into her head allows you the opportunity to look for signs throughout the night. If you didn't get the signs at first and ejected but she starts checking you out half the night, smiling at you, giving you heavy eye contact. Simply re-engage, because you left on a high note, you can go back in direct. Knowing you have already established enough rapport to avoid a bitch shield.

I have been doing this style for at least a decade now and I rarely get rejected, not because I am 100 % desireable to all my targets, but simply because I allow myself the opportunity to read and interpret the signs, then act accordingly, rather then act first. I take pride in my ability to read my target and having a high pick up ratio.

Rejection can be a good thing to those that are new to the game, but if you've been doing it for a couple of decades, rejection becomes unnecessary. I don't like it, nor do I want it. I don't need it to help my game, so I tend to avoid it at all costs. It's also an ego thing for me, I don't like to let a girl think she rejected me. I am the one in power not her. If she rejects me unconsciously, so be it. But I will not allow a woman to reject me consciously.

_________________
Seduce their mind and the rest will follow.

EXACTLY! I can't believe how similar our game is, crazy. Yeah these guys don't realize that it's fine to go direct at the right time, i.e. when you detect a reciprocated interest. However if you don't have an initial attraction it's important to build attraction before showing your intentions. You want to demonstrate value , charm her a little(make her smile and laugh), and perhaps even build a connection, this allows you to get women by the dozen, you choose them, they don't choose you.

Indirect makes opening easy and natural, direct certainly has it's advantages but if you aren't screening and looking for women for a "warm approach"(initial interest) then you can go direct with more ease (especially if you can tell whether she is dtf by her behavior).

Love your style SA, lol especially since it's mine.

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Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

I wish stelar still was here.
He could tell that every opener you use, you have to make sure that you have screened
her correctly

Then go track him down, you do realize his game worked off of numbers, his good looks, and asshole mentality right? It's not skills with women that he taught, you don't need the pua community for this success. Just go around with sexual aggression and being forward, the fact that you idolize someone who literally has brought nothing to the community except direct game which there were tons of people doing anyways says a lot about your ignorance about courtship. There have been plenty of direct pick up artist(even before pick up artist existed), why are you making him out to be anything more than he is, someone who gave horrible advice on picking up women. He gave solid advice on having a correct mindset, which I admit is more than half the battle but when you read his posts he admits he is a pretty boy who gets eye fucked everywhere. This tactic doesn't work for everyone and thus teaches horrible tactics.

The warm approach is also something he used but his warm approach involved spotting dtf women http://showyourmind.wordpress.com/2012/ ... the-prowl/ , which is very easy, rather than looking for approach cues(but I've even read posts where he admitted to warm approaches, noticing initial attraction before going in for the kill).

Stelar taught only how to capitalize on initial attraction not keep it, or build it.

_________________
Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

Sex addict took of the answer, that was some funny shit! lol!

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

I believe that solid game requires a person to be both direct and indirect.

Yes, we must be able/willing to communicate our interest, but we must also be able to communicate in an everyday fashion. Being too sexual too early can scare women away. However, no sexuality at all leads to the friend zone.

Indirect and direct openers depends on the person. Saying that both have their cons and pros. Indirect has you taking the long route but is better for cold approaches where the girls has not shown any interest. Direct approaches get straight to the point but are better with girls that shown interest up front. In the end it comes down to personal opinion.
And I bet you most of those guys are just diving in without thinking, which equates to getting rejected more.
Nothing there says you can't re-engage a girl that has rejected you if you open with a direct opener. A lot of it comes down to how you go about things. From what you said to the girl to how you deliver the opener.