If it was a party I would have been down to make a move. This wasnt a party but an event for fundraising by a hospital. Like it was in a big room with a bunch of people, no drinking, raffle tickets, that sort of thing. There was loud music being played though.

and this would be like a day2 for an actual date. You sure I should think a girl, especially this one who is crazy shy/scared of stuff, isn't into me if shes not willing to sleep over? especially with strict ass parents?

I do like your advice on teasing fingering and then going out for drinks and whatnot. Shes actually not 21 yet though, and only went out to this place thats by her that allows partying 18+. Maybe I should try to get her there, but then she cant really drink. Ugh.. sucks not having my own place. Such unneeded complications.

I wont text/call her for a bit until I get some of my own shit done because I am kind of busy. I'll probably facebook friend request her tomorrow or some shit though.

Thanks again slip n slide.

PS. Just remembered.. that night, my voice was still absolutely shot/gone. She was asking why it was gone, but I told her I couldn't tell her because it was a secret (fraternity stuff. been screaming hah). I told her to guess and she said Sucking dick? lol.. I laughed pretty hard because I never expected a sexual joke from this chick. I said, 'nah that would be horrible! Well, for me.. Idk you might like it hah" and she kinda laughed it off saying Nooo... But thats probably just her not trying to be slutty or whatever. I probably could have responded better but yea, at least she is a little sexual I guess.

EDIT: On second thought.. I would be real surprised if i didnt get heavy resistance from this chick for anything past kissing because I havent even kissed her yet. And because of the way she seems. But I guess theres only one way to find out..

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B*tches ain't nothin' but hoes and tricks.

I don't know, man. Invite her out and see.

Don't try to pull off anything complicated. If your brother's place is your home base for this date, center your activity around there. If you could pregame there, then go somewhere else then come back, that could work. Or you could just take her there and stay the whole time, cook dinner with her or something.

Get a date ASAP and let me know how it goes.

Well, I didn't take your advice Slip n Slide. Not because I didn't want to, this week has just been pretty nutty and a lot of stuff happened. A week ago (probably like the 5th of April or something) I finally crossed into a fraternity in my college. I believe that Saturday night or Sunday she texted me asking how it went and if I got in. Felt good because this was her first time initiating an interaction with me.

Anyway, I was going to be pretty busy during that week and figured we couldn't hang out for a tiny bit, but I would call her later on(this is what I told her). I am not sure if I mentioned in this thread that I met another girl at school, but this new one (Italian girl) has been showing me a lot of interest. She actually initiates texting and sometimes even phone calls now that I have been hitting her up. I got caught up a little bit with this new girl that I started caring less about the original one, but then Wednesday came around and it was really nice outside, and I was in a good mood so I threw the original girl a phone call.

As soon as she picks up the phone and I say "Hola Michelle" she just starts laughing hah. I chuckle and ask her why shes laughing and just fun banter. She even started saying stuff like "You are so weird! .... but in a good way!" I was telling her she was weird too of course haha. She even said something like, "I thought you weren't going to call me now that you got into the fraternity" or something along the lines of forgetting about her. "Nooo! of course not"

At first I told her we were gonna hang out, and when she asked what we were going to do I just told her Idk, but I'll think of something fun! Anyway, long story short I had a party that Thursday night for my crossing that I told her she could come to. She jokingly responds "Im in!" immediately, but she also said had to study that night for an exam the next morning. I knew that meant she wouldn't be coming, and I was right. That night I called her twice in a row with no answer, so threw her a text "Im assuming you're dorking it up tonight?"
She got back to me saying "Lol Am I that predictable? Yea Ive been studying my butt off for this exam but enjoy it for me/have a good time" or something like that.

I invited the other girl too, and she reallyyy wanted to come but she flaked because of her friend and she lives far. At the party, once I started drinking a bit I got mad social, ended up hooking up with this one irish girl a little. One of the girls that just went greek as well (my "pc" aka pledge cousin) was looking my way and even had her "Big" try to set me up with her. I got her number.. she saw me hooking up with the other girl later on in the night which probably made her even more attracted to me, and she ended up texting me the next day. Irrevelent, but yea life has been getting fun lately hah.

Anyway, I wanted to take your advice Slip n Slide but my brother is a workaholic (real estate investor/business owner) and his office is basically in his chill room with the projector and whatnot. He cant really give me a set time when I can use his room because he work basically 24/7. So basically my logistics/dates are fucked unless I can think of something. I don't know what to do because I am meeting these new girls, and they're interested, but I am not sure how to move things forward. I will probably just wait until this thursday (another party) to flirt with the girl in greek life.

I just remembered that, even though the original girl is real innocent, she said she would try smoking with me for the second time (she told me she tried rolling a blunt once and can do it so i jumped on it/challenged her). I actually made it a promise to myself NOT to smoke with girls because my game sucks and I generally just dont like to be high around girls, but I might make an exception because its an activity I can do with her and it might go ok. Plus she's 19/20 so cant go out drinking.

I have a Greek formal (basically prom with alcohol and no supervision) coming up where I can invite the Italian girl or the original girl. One of my fraternity brothers who knows the italian girl said she probably wouldnt put out (kind of a good girl type too but not as much as the original girl I dont think). She is more my type (athletic, outgoing/jokes with me more) and I SHOULD like her more, but for some reason I am intrigued by this original, shy girl (even though shes not athletic and whatnot). Probably because I want what I can't have, as usual.

Part of me wants to invite the original girl because, even if I don't have sex I don't really care I'll be able to connect with her over the course of the night, and I know I'll find a way to hang out with the Italian girl because shes pretty into me. What do you think?

Sorry for the humongous wall of text, but so much has happened (even more stuff actually, like a different PC looking my way, but is a friggen gf to one of my fraternity brothers. Not sure how Ima handle that one but I cant get your guys advice on everything haha!).. But yea, any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks so much for your help so far! I really appreciate it you have no idea!

Mike

PS. Would it have been to invite both girls to the party that one night? Might be dick to invite the two girls youre talking to to a party, but maybe guys do this to try and get the girls to fight over you?

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B*tches ain't nothin' but hoes and tricks.

I wouldn't try inviting two girls. It's attention-whoring. I think the only time this is acceptable is if you already have a date, and a girl who's in a sorority, and really wants to go to this formal, talks to you about how she can't get a date. You offer immediately "I'll take you! I'm a stud, I can take two girls."
This doesn't apply here, there's no one who's dying to go.

Basically my question is who's hotter. It doesn't matter if they'll put out, or who you connect better with. You'll see both of them again, and however far it's destined to go is how far it'll go, as long as you see them in person. But on this night you're going to have a lot of pictures taken. It's better for your social proof to bring the hotter girl, and it'll make the second girl jealous of her.

Also wear something fly. I wore a black on black tux to my prom on saturday, and I looked like a stud. That's a good option, or wear some interesting color. My buddy wore a white tux with a camouflage vest and bowtie.

As far as smoking with that girl... (let's be cautious about this topic. there's a rule against drug discussion)... I'm very familiar with the situation. It can go very well or very badly. I consider myself comfortable when under the influence of it, but still had one of the most uncomfortable dates of my life after we smoked. I also got laid because it set the mood so well one time.

So basically it's on you to decide. I think the best place to do it would be in nature, somewhere you can climb big rocks and get distracted by random stuff. It creates a fun, playful mood. Fun and playful is good, if you can hold her hand to pull her up some rocks, hug her, then kiss her. Could be a good set up.

Oh and do something before you smoke. Go get ice cream or something first. It gives you a chance to break the ice while sober, so the transition is smooth.

Two things I didn't discuss: The girl who's with one of your frat bros, don't bother with her. A real man is able to turn down pussy.

Also this irish girl. Is she hot? Decide on your standards and stick to them. Turn down low-quality pussy.

I would never try to take two girls to formal. I meant for the party that night on Thursday because of course one of the girls couldn't give me a straight No, so I wanted to invite the other one. I was hesitating inviting the second one though in case the original did in fact go. Maybe at a house party with drinking it could be good to have both, but I was leaning towards just inviting one (my opinion).

As far as whose hotter, the Italian girl might be hotter to most people, but I am not sure. They're both different and I find them both attractive. I don't really see the original girl in person that much, if at all, anymore unless I set something up. The Italian girl I see a lot. Good advice as far as social proof goes though.

Oh, and black on black. I might just have to do that! haha. I have worn white tux's with light blue on the inside, looked real nice too.

I am not sure what I am going to do with the smoking. Like you, I have had a good experience with it, but also awkward ones. Good suggestions as far as nature and the ice breaker beforehand, I will keep that in mind.

As far as the brother's gf, she friend requested me and then wrote on my wall. I was going to respond just to be friendly, but yea I should probably just ignore it. The Irish girl IS cute, petite little thing. I am meeting all these girls now though, and like I literally don't know how to find time/what I can do with them so I am not texting them. I think I'll just focus on the main two and let the rest take care of itself.

Thanks for your help as usual man.

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B*tches ain't nothin' but hoes and tricks.

I think you can handle everything else, but one point. DO be friends with those girls that you don't plan to hook up with. It's useful to have female friends. Flirt, touch them, just know that no matter what happens, you won't go further.

alriiiight. So... Lifes been good and shits happened/changed.

Since I have posted in this thread I have gone to the two formals. I am still talking to Michelle (the conservative/shy one i like). The Italian girl fell off the map!

The Italian girl was pretty attractive but I guess I got caught up a little bit with the other girls and didnt really hit her up as much as she was hitting me up. She was texting me constantly everyday (which I knew wasnt the best thing to do because I usually like to keep text for plans). She got sick one week and when Id hit her up she wouldnt respond as well so I froze her out a little (even though she was my first choice to formal! She couldnt go because she couldnt get off of work). One thing lead to another and we had an honest convo where she said the connection wasnt there anymore and I was cool with it and left on good terms.

As far as the formals.. For the first one I wasnt sure between two girls that just crossed into a sorority this semester (my 'PC's). One was the one I mentioned a couple posts ago that was looking my way and her 'big' was trying to set me up with her. Petite little thing, pale skin, and definitely feeling me. Not too long before the formal I met her pledge sister who also had some interest in me (not as obvious), and despite knowing that Id get it on with the pale one, I went with this new one because I find her sexy as hell (what a body!).

Long story short, I ended up banging her at my formal (sex was ok but drinking didnt help) under the pretense that NO ONE could know because her best friend (the pale one) got upset when she even said yes to going with me. One (maybe two) people ended up knowing we had sex, but I literally told all my brothers I didn't get that night to keep it under wraps. I wasn't sure how it was going to go after that or if it was just a one night stand, but I was just texting her tonight and this happened over a week ago.

Also, I saw both girls at one of our parties and they both texted me to get there (hurry!). I danced with the girl I banged here and there and flirted with her, but I noticed she also flirts with one other brother in my fraternity (and probably a decent amount of others). She supposedly hooked up (kissed) with him at our formal! She denied it to me a lot, I told her it didnt matter anyway, but I figured she was lying to me the same way she lied about the other shit.

Her body is flawless and I have to focus on not becoming attached to her because she probably isnt dating material. As Im dancing with her one of her sisters jokingly says, "Making rounds tonight huh -name- ?" "shut up!! lol" I kissed her a little at the party but she was reluctant because her best friend was in the room. When she acted a little aloof and probably wanted me to chase or something, I decided to go talk with her best friend the pale one. As I was flirting a little with the pale friend the girl came back in and blocked her with her butt to me (successful haha)because she got a little jealous I guess, but this was right when the party was ending so they left soon after (this happened thursday I think)

We texted a bit tonight and we mentioned that she is going to visit me this summer. How would you recommend interacting with this girl? I am figuring she is not the most faithful type and would probably drive me crazy, so I guess I am just going to let her do her thing (go to parties, probably flirt with a bunch of other dudes too), but hit her up to hang out and hook up when I can.

_
As far as the original girl.. Man! I interact with her so much differently than with other girls I feel. When I was inviting the other girls to formal/setting it up I was still talking to this girl but wasn't sure how everything was going. I even accidentally texted her a text that was meant for the girl I went to formal with, and she knew it was meant for another girl. She texted back, "Send that text to the right girl -my name-!" Haha damn phone. I hated that this happened because it came off fake and try hard, but it was an honest accident. She believed it though so maybe it was beneficial?

After I did my whole thing with these other girls and life in general, I wrote this girl off kind of because I figured she wasn't feeling me at all (she never really hit me up). This past week though (finals week) I enter the library, I even had a feeling Id see this girl, and sure enough as Im walking past some booths/tables I see her studying. I stop in front of her and eventually sit down to study.

I guess this is where it either gets interesting.. or I solidified my position with her (hopefully not as a friend). When I mean that I was able to interact with this girl differently than most, I mean that because I was talking 110% honest with her. Quite frankly, this interaction was going on long enough, so I really didn't give a fuck. Other times I was in the library with her I might have been a little nervous, but this time I was calm and in control.

After we talk a lot and distract each other from our homework, our conversation lead to us in one way or another. I said (because I wanted to cut to the chase) how I have been nothing but honest with her from the start and what not.. and basically said, are you intestested in me? because im tired of trying to hard haha

She said a few different things. One of the bad things I heard, and she didnt directly say she saw me as a friend (because I wanted to know this), but I did hear the word friend which put up a red flag for me. Even if she was saying 'I feel comfortable around you like with a friend', just hearing the word friend came off as a clue to me.

However, she also said a lot of things about me being an awesome guy, how shes more open with me than others, and she also talked a lot about shes not good at picking up 'signals' from people that are interested and she thinks everyone is just being friendly and whatnot. Also saying how she needs to get to know the person/me. She told me that she needs the guy to actually vocalize that he likes her.. or to just kiss.. or to whatever (lead basically). I told her that vocalizing is usually the last thing most guys do, or that I would do from what I learned (joking about having my heart broken at an early age hah) and that Id rather just show through actions how I feel. I even told her that a couple weeks back I was thinking about her a lot (she seemed happy to hear this and surprised), and that I didn't hit her up a lot because I felt she wasnt interested, especially the one time she flaked. She said shes not the type to text a lot and such.

I just found it cool that I was able to talk with this girl without hiding anything. Like I told her how when I first saw her and didnt say anything I went back to my pledge brothers and was pissed off I didnt talk to her. and then how I chased her down for the first time to meet her. While all this was going on she said now that I know this I will text you. She seems open to us hanging out a lot, but she did flake on me that one time so well see how it goes. I just made sure she knew though, like I said I have enough friends and whatnot and I dont need anymore. I told her now knowing this.. do you want to continue this interaction? She was nodding and giggling like the innocent girl she is

Eventually I got out of there and she text me tonight surprisingly, but after 2 texts back and forth she didnt answer. But it was really late, and she actually has a curfew of 11:30pm! She was embarrassed to tell me that but I made her feel comfortable so she was opening up to me in the library. We were talking about a lot of deep stuff, but I also made her laugh a lot. She admitted to having low self-esteem, and I went into how we need to find her a new hobbie/passion!

I should probably cut it here before I start talking about her too much. I wrote too much enough as it is probably hah but yea..I know by most people's standards asking a girl how she feels about you is a no no, but I didnt care I was just being myself really. Now that finals are finishing I need to get a "real" day2 (even though its not really a day2 anymore hah) with her, but the thing thats bugging me is that I have talked to her for a little bit now and I really need to kiss her. I know how important it is to do it early, so I hope its not settled that were friends. She even mentioned how she only didnt kiss me on day1 because she didnt want to be 'easy'. I hated even hearing that word friend, but keep in mind that I had this girls face red one time from laughing. Even in the library I have her slapping her knees and giggling a lot. She also admitted that she loves playing games though. ANYWAY! Anything you guys want to throw in here to help me stay on track, feel free!

Thanks again

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B*tches ain't nothin' but hoes and tricks.

No offense but...looks like a lot of bullshit.

You slept with one girl. Is that the best girl to have slept with? Hotter and more compatible with you over any other option?

You wasted time with Italian and paid for it. You need to learn to make moves.

You decided to verbalize what should never be verbalized with the other girl. Like she said, sometimes you just need to kiss girls. If that continues, you need to kiss her and none of the rest matters.

You have a fear of closing. Kisses need to be taken.

Haha! I like your honesty, at least it's legit advice. What seems like a lot of bullshit though? My interaction with the main, shy girl? I just wanted to paint an accurate picture of our interaction as best as I could.

As far as the girl I slept with.. are you implying I could have done something different? I invited the Italian girl originally. Once that was a no go, I decided not to invite the shy one and to pick one of the two friends. I ended up sleeping with the one I felt a lot more attracted to (even though the other one is cute). So as far as the lay, I think I picked a good one haha

And I do agree that I missed my chance with the Italian one. Kind of sucks because she is cute, but I shouldn't care that much because if I really liked her that much, I wouldn't have acted the way I did! She lives a little far, and is only at school during tues and thurs, and even then our schedules barely matched up. So it wasnt so much about me not making moves.. it was me being really busy, and not really having anything to do with her. I guess I could have made it happen if I really wanted to but I cant make time for everyone! Lesson learned though.

And yea.. Im sure everyone on this forum is against verbalizing those types of things, and I knew this, but I did it anyway because I wanted to cut to the chase already. After she ended the text convo last night, I called her up after work today and had a good conversation with her and we were talking about meeting up this wednesday in the library. We agreed that were going to smoke but she wants to wait until she is done with finals. Ill hit her up in a couple days to confirm Wednesday, but if she flakes thatll be that I suppose.

As far as having a fear of closing.. I can agree to that for the most part. I am not that scared, but sometimes I wonder how to go about doing it instead of coming off naturally. I actually missed an opportunity with the italian girl a couple weeks in where she went to kiss me on the cheek and I turned last second for a peck. Should have turned that into a kiss close. But what about times where its not happening naturally like at the formal with my date?

Like Id love to kiss the main girl, but for the past couple of times I am seeing her were in the library and talking about everything under the sun. I dont think its natural to just kiss her right in the middle of the library.. Maybe pull the 'I have a present for you' thing and get her to close her eyes in one of the aisles of the book shelves so no one is looking?

I think as long as I can meet up with her and not think about it too much.. I should still have a solid chance. You agree? (only one way to find out I guess)

Thanks again slip n slide.

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B*tches ain't nothin' but hoes and tricks.

I know you wanted to make it accurate, I don't mind the post being long.

What I was calling bullshit is a lot of the fluff that you unnecessarily have. By not being decisive, you weren't ready to kiss when your split-second opportunities came, and so you have a lot of "Well I did this, but she start acting this other way, so I started doing something else, and she stopped texting me, so I never kissed her."

The secret to all of this is: Decide whether you want to kiss a girl. Kiss her at first opportunity with no hesitation.

When your intent is so solid and so transparent, you start getting what you want. When your intent is muddled ("I mean, I'll TRY to kiss her tonight. But not if that other girl is around to see, and she's been acting bitchy anyway") then you will not get what you want.

I think you'll have great game once you get this piece figured out.

Don't listen to Slip n Slide. He's clearly a KJ and listening to him is going backwards in knowledge.

Expressing your actual feelings IS GOOD GAME BUT you have to do it in a not needy or overwhelming way which I think your failing at here.

Won't deny the KJ accusation, but I am working on myself and making progress. I do sleep with girls, and I slept with a new girl this past weekend (as well as one that I have a continued relationship with).

You are not going backwards in knowledge by taking my advice, I only give advice that I recognize from my own life, and I'm very good at writing it up.

Domr, contact me over PM if you feel you need "proof" by form of pictures of me with girls or something. There is a limit to what I'll do to prove myself over the internet though, your opinion isn't vital to me. Besides, I think my advice is more specific and applicable than yours.

I am new to the rules but surely it's freeze out time? Correct me if I'm wrong.

P.S I think you overstretched the lazy joke, the first time was awesome but ya know, she agreed.

Did you only read my first post though? Maybe I should freeze her out. Definitely if I set up plans for tomorrow and she flakes.

Thanks for all your advice guys.

You're right though Slip n Slide..cut all the bullshit and I still haven't kissed her. I hope it hasn't gotten to a point where the interaction has being going on too long. I called her today about tomorrow and she didn't pick up so maybe I'll hit her up tomorrow (unless she texts me tonight).

And I definitely think that will help if I have it in my mind to know what I want, so kudos for that. So ok.. I have it set in my mind that I like this girl and I want to establish that were not friends.

My question is this.. what can I do if we are just studying in the library? Perhaps I want to know what to do because I have a fear of closing but.. I don't see how an opportunity is going to present itself in the library, especially with how shy she can be.

On one hand I want to just create the opportunity.. maybe with that sexual tension test thing where we get as close as we can without actually kissing each other. I like that kind of stuff, but everything that I 'stand for' now is about being natural and not using these routines and shit (expressing my feelings like domr said).

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B*tches ain't nothin' but hoes and tricks.

I didn't make it through all 2 pages of this topic but you seem a bit needy/available. Make her work for your time if at all possible