| Among the various issues that pop up in threads throughout this forum, there are three or four that consistently incite debate, even flaming, due to the fact that they have no real answers. It’s not that they are unclear, just that there are no direct yes/no answers to them. If anyone can think of another issue in addition to the ones I’ve expanded on below, feel free to add it. There’s no point in arguing about these things over and over again because it’s impossible to ever reach a consensus on what the “right” answer is.
(1) Is there such thing as an HB10?
Many have claimed that we should switch to an HB 0-1 scale because the 0-10 scale is superfluous. There is no such thing as a “perfect” girl, but that’s not the point of using a 0-10 scale. Ask any guy who has actually HAD in-field experience and he will contend that you game a girl who is a 7 or a 6 differently from a girl who is a “10.” When I’m writing a field report and I say “I met HB10” I am trying to tell you “I met a girl who was much hotter than every girl I saw this week” to give you a more accurate picture of how I felt; not to pedestalize a girl. A 0-10 scale is used for pragmatic reasons, and offers a certain degree of flexibility absent in a scale between 0 and 1. If I told you “I hard negged HB1” in the latter scale; would a better picture of the quality of the girl not help in assessing my approach?
However, the argument against ever using the number “10” is correct on its own merit. People say that because most of the guys on this forum DO have a bad habit of pedestalizing women. I see it right away when someone titles their thread “met HB 12.” In that sense, I would also discourage the practice.
(2) Does game exist?
Obviously yes, but that’s not why people post “forget about Game” in their responses. It’s because there’s a bad tendency to rely on game as a crutch, and/or read on and on about without every applying anything learned. What good does it do for a guy who learns a bunch of terms like “negging” and “take away” if he’s never going to USE THEM on a girl? The practice is too often reduced to intellectual masturbation, when in reality, it’s supposed to be something learned IN-FIELD. You hit you’re first real learning curve when you’re actually out there TALKING to girls, not when you’re reading about how to talk to them.
This being said, it’s still useful. Without blogs and forums that offer a compendium of information about the Venusian Arts, you’d still have guys socialized to believe that acting in an all-supplicating manner was the key to a woman’s intimacy. It is not. Game is useful insofar as it unplugs a guy from his faux conditioning; but it is not meant to be a permanent crutch for his development.
On another note, some people would swear that Game doesn’t exist because they know 2 or 3 guys who are amazing with women who have never heard of it. Just because a guy doesn’t consciously know about game does not mean he’s not exercising it. For instance, a man raised as a leader and taught to pursue his own dreams above everything else will naturally be inclined to do things like ignore a girl’s text or avoid desperate behavior. It’s not because “that’s what Mystery said to do,” it’s because that’s what he feels is right on a gut level. He knows that his ambitions are more important than the women around him. The problem is, most men are NOT raised in an ideal environment and instead, nurture various complexes and AFC mentalities. Game helps to make them AWARE of these things.
In the past where a man conditioned the wrong way had no hope of getting out of his beta complex – we now have generations of betas systematically altering their personalities to stop being pussies and AFCs. It’s not a bad thing.
The question is not whether game exists or not; it’s about how it is implemented. The natural does it subconsciously and instinctively because that’s how he was conditioned to respond to women, that’s how he PERCIEVES the world around him. He thinks “I want this girl, so I’m going to go talk to her.” The Game acolyte thinks “I want this girl, but fuck I’m scared to talk to her.” Hence, he is then able to CONSCIOUSLY remind himself about what’s hindering him (approach anxiety), and then take steps to overcome it. Yes, it would be ideal if every guy were raised as an Alpha and never had to resort to Game, but it is not so. There is no shame in relying on external game or developing inner game until it becomes internalized to the core of your personality.
(3) Does Game apply to relationships?
Seduction has always existed as an art. Game is simply the modern day compression of the basic tenants of seduction into a textbook science. But seduction, the art of making someone love you or like you or believe in you, has always existed in its many forms. You do not stop seducing, ever. You either have the ability to seduce, or you lack it. It is not a reality you can escape.
So what do people mean they say “Don’t play games in relationships?”
They mean don’t overanalyze things to the point of reversing progress. But should you “stop” gaming your wife? Should you ever say “fuck social proof” and decide to become a househusband while your wife gets a job as a massage therapist for people working on Wall Street? If your ex breaks up with you because of a lack of interest, do you “not play games” and just spill the beans on how you feel, or do you “play games” and perhaps make her jealous and withdraw attention? 90% of guys who use the “don’t play games” justification, do so to rationalize their own AFC behavior.
“Don’t play games – I’ll just tell her how I’m jealous”
“Don’t play games – I’ll just tell her I’m insecure”
“Don’t play games – I’ll just tell her I’ve been talking to other girls to make her jealous”
It just doesn’t cut it.
(4) Why do Pick up Artists sound gay?
There are two answers to this. First, because it works. While nowadays game has evolved into a more masculine form, people forget how effective old school pick up tactics used to be. Being high energy and quirky, while seemingly feminine, DID get you laid because it allowed you to open sets and introduce yourself to girls. Masculine James Bond game; sitting at the bar and waiting for a girl to walk by and then boldly charming her did not let you plow through set after set. Sometimes if you're being too unreactive and aloof, you may MISS opportunities around you.
And second, because most pick up artists are NOT Alpha males. While most of the tactics in PU artistry are related to mimicking Alpha behavior and body language to elicit the same reactions from woman as a natural would; it does not mean that a good pick up artist is an Alpha Male. Nor does it work the other way around. I know men who are extremely Dominant over other men (army officers, lawyers, etc) but have no fucking clue how to talk to women. It’s a bad habit to assume the term PUA encompasses everything within social acuity.
One needs only to read the Game and recount Mystery’s huge bouts of Oneitis or Neil’s very own Oneitis at the end of the story to recall that both of them were indeed betas. They might have been betas who were very good at getting laid; but they were betas nonetheless. The two are not mutually exclusive.
(5) Do looks matter?
Again, yes and no. No because an ugly Alpha will out game a good-looking beta any time, anywhere. No because women become blind to looks and other faculties of logic when they are in the presence of a dominant man. No because when you go up the Alpha scale enough, it comes down to other factors like game and social proof.
Yes because it DOES affect you. It WILL, you cannot help it. The effect however, can be ambiguous. I know ugly men who lack confidence because they feel they are ugly. I know very good-looking men who have confidence because they’ve always been told they were good looking. I know ugly men who ARE confident because they have learned that this was the only way to compensate for their looks. I know good looking men who are NOT confident because they’ve been too feminized to retain the rugged confidence it takes to work women.
And besides all this, the question of how it effects you in-field also has no straight answer. If you’re good looking does it mean direct game will work for you better? Maybe, because a girl might find you attractive enough to give you a shot. Or maybe if you’re ugly, a direct approach is exactly what you need to let your boldness mask your looks.
What does all this mean? That the looks debate is irrelevant. You cannot change how you look, so you should never worry nor ask about it. As a corollary, how much game you have is infinitely more important than how good you look when you go out. In fact, the main reason for looking good, is more FOR GAME than to give women aesthetic pleasure. When you look good, you tend to feel good, and thus you push better game. When you dress very well, other women might notice you which gives you a bit more social proof.
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CHAT
