I know exactly what you mean. You brought up the "numbers game" as being the only method accepted now. However, I see it differently. There is in fact, no numbers game. There is no method, and there is no game. To me it's very simple and common sense. If you think you are using the method of being aloof and acting hard to get, you are actually just seeking validation from women. The right way is to go at it as 60yoc says. Acting hard to get is not a method, and being direct is not a method either. It's just one of those things, like respect for example. Respecting/disrespecting others are not methods. It's just something you do how you want.

"Being seductive is not something you run around the bars doing, like being social. This is not pickup. This is NOT a game. This is relaxed. This is chill. Don't force things. You do this on your terms - when you want. This is letting the game come to you, but being proactive at the same time"

It's only a numbers game if you make it a game.

My Background
I came to this forum as what the community called a natural, as an offshoot of my interest in psychology and human motivation. 90% of my friends are also naturals, but with varying types of game. When I came to this forum, I initially had a superiority problem (as most naturals here tend to do), thinking that I was somehow better than the people who had to learn. Sure PUA taught me things, but most of the things I learned benefited my relationships -- not much changed in the initial meeting of females. I stayed around this place for a long time, helping people with various issues. And I noticed a few common problems with this forum.

The Guru's
A lot of the active people on this website tend to be people who do not have much going on in their life other than females. Some people are bound to choose women as one of their life's main pursuits, while someone like me is more inclined to study finance. The problem with this is that you get a very specific type of person giving PUA advice on these boards. It's someone who spends their time in clubs (substances involved) or cold approaching. People who are involved in other activities rarely have enough time to post a lot every day (Protip: You can often use post frequency as a gauge for the poster's outside life).

I know both naturals and PUA's who excel at these PUA centric things. But from my experience, most people coming to this site don't have such a narrow scope in mind. They want to be better socially in all situations. But the advice they are largely given here is based on getting sex, not skills at navigating, creating, and growing lasting relationships. I'm very close with a PUA friend I met in the Northeast. He has more success than most at getting SNLs and picking up girls to have sex with (He spends his weekends flying across the country, hooking up with various girls he has met). But he isn't as great at sustained contact with people.

Point 1: Advice on this forum is very situation specific. It does not naturally produce an overall more successful person, but only improves interactions in certain settings.

The Newbies
Guru's on this website have a huge impact on the 'accepted' method of the day. Someone like Chief can post a theory and tomorrow, everyone will be echoing his beliefs. This forum goes through cycles of these phases and the fact that everyone is agreeing makes it seem that that must be the correct method. But different people have different styles and different approaches. Very good, but conflicting advice, then gets ignored. Currently the numbers game/direct stuff seems to be making its way through the forums. Does it work? Yes. But does it close some doors that may have remained opened with another approach? Yes.

Just because something brings success, doesn't mean it's the best success one can achieve. Nor does it mean its 'better' than another method. One thing I've noticed from many of the 'good' people from this forum is they learned many different methods. I suspect this makes one more able to adapt to situations, instead of being a one trick pony. Even though it is usually claimed all the other methods didn't help them.

Point 2: Just because it's popular/unpopular, doesn't mean it's the best thing to learn. Learn how to do varying types of game. You can't do the Apocalypse opener at a "Young Professionals" meeting. You can't do indirect game in a swinger party.

Female Centric Lives
The problem with the active gurus is they don't have other things going on in their lives. It makes them have certain assumptions about the way the World works. Some of my natural friends focus on getting women, others have it happen as a consequence of their life. I've noticed that success from these two different schools result in different outcomes. Lifestyle advice gets negative criticism under this new forum trend, but this is also an important aspect depending on your goals.

My friends who focus on getting girls have lots of sex with lots of girls. And of course while exceptions exist often, the average girls they hook up with are not the same 'type' of girl as their driven natural counter parts. They generally aren't grad students, business owners, or young professionals. On the other hand, those who do the lifestyle approach encounter people in different settings and appeal to driven females. They generally are hooking up with like minded females.

One of the utilities of these hook ups is the social circles you create. Although there is a lot of fraternizing between the groups of "Driven" and "Partying" girls and guys, as a whole the two groups seem to diverge the older and older my friends and I get.

Point 3: Not all success is equal. Different types of girls will be attracted to different methods. Pursue the lifestyle you want (whether it be the party person or the driven person), females will be available to you as long as you've developed social skills necessary to interact.[/b]

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This is more of a rant than something I planned to write. Generally, when I write and plan a forum post it turns into something that reads more like an academic or professional writing, than a PUA forum post. I hope this free writing method makes it more accessible.

As with any PUA post, the message of the author is not separate from the author. My life style, game, and world views greatly influence what I'll see, think works, and explain. I offer this merely as Pick-Up-Artist-Forum.com according to Hobbit, which I hope may help a newbie or two better understand the dynamics at play.

This place can be very helpful or very harmful, depending on what habits, behaviors, and world views that get adopted. Always remain skeptical.

My Background
I came to this forum as what the community called a natural, as an offshoot of my interest in psychology and human motivation. 90% of my friends are also naturals, but with varying types of game. When I came to this forum, I initially had a superiority problem (as most naturals here tend to do), thinking that I was somehow better than the people who had to learn. Sure PUA taught me things, but most of the things I learned benefited my relationships -- not much changed in the initial meeting of females. I stayed around this place for a long time, helping people with various issues. And I noticed a few common problems with this forum.

The Guru's
A lot of the active people on this website tend to be people who do not have much going on in their life other than females. Some people are bound to choose women as one of their life's main pursuits, while someone like me is more inclined to study finance. The problem with this is that you get a very specific type of person giving PUA advice on these boards. It's someone who spends their time in clubs (substances involved) or cold approaching. People who are involved in other activities rarely have enough time to post a lot every day (Protip: You can often use post frequency as a gauge for the poster's outside life).

I know both naturals and PUA's who excel at these PUA centric things. But from my experience, most people coming to this site don't have such a narrow scope in mind. They want to be better socially in all situations. But the advice they are largely given here is based on getting sex, not skills at navigating, creating, and growing lasting relationships. I'm very close with a PUA friend I met in the Northeast. He has more success than most at getting SNLs and picking up girls to have sex with (He spends his weekends flying across the country, hooking up with various girls he has met). But he isn't as great at sustained contact with people.

Point 1: Advice on this forum is very situation specific. It does not naturally produce an overall more successful person, but only improves interactions in certain settings.

The Newbies
Guru's on this website have a huge impact on the 'accepted' method of the day. Someone like Chief can post a theory and tomorrow, everyone will be echoing his beliefs. This forum goes through cycles of these phases and the fact that everyone is agreeing makes it seem that that must be the correct method. But different people have different styles and different approaches. Very good, but conflicting advice, then gets ignored. Currently the numbers game/direct stuff seems to be making its way through the forums. Does it work? Yes. But does it close some doors that may have remained opened with another approach? Yes.

Just because something brings success, doesn't mean it's the best success one can achieve. Nor does it mean its 'better' than another method. One thing I've noticed from many of the 'good' people from this forum is they learned many different methods. I suspect this makes one more able to adapt to situations, instead of being a one trick pony. Even though it is usually claimed all the other methods didn't help them.

Point 2: Just because it's popular/unpopular, doesn't mean it's the best thing to learn. Learn how to do varying types of game. You can't do the Apocalypse opener at a "Young Professionals" meeting. You can't do indirect game in a swinger party

Female Centric Lives
The problem with the active gurus is they don't have other things going on in their lives. It makes them have certain assumptions about the way the World works. Some of my natural friends focus on getting women, others have it happen as a consequence of their life. I've noticed that success from these two different schools result in different outcomes. Lifestyle advice gets negative criticism under this new forum trend, but this is also an important aspect depending on your goals.

My friends who focus on getting girls have lots of sex with lots of girls. And of course while exceptions exist often, the average girls they hook up with are not the same 'type' of girl as their driven natural counter parts. They generally aren't grad students, business owners, or young professionals. On the other hand, those who do the lifestyle approach encounter people in different settings and appeal to driven females. They generally are hooking up with like minded females.

One of the utilities of these hook ups is the social circles you create. Although there is a lot of fraternizing between the groups of "Driven" and "Partying" girls and guys, as a whole the two groups seem to diverge the older and older my friends and I get.

Point 3: Not all success is equal. Different types of girls will be attracted to different methods. Pursue the lifestyle you want (whether it be the party person or the driven person), females will be available to you as long as you've developed social skills necessary to interact.[/b]

This is more of a rant than something I planned to write. Generally, when I write and plan a forum post it turns into something that reads more like an academic or professional writing, than a PUA forum post. I hope this free writing method makes it more accessible.

As with any PUA post, the message of the author is not separate from the author. My life style, game, and world views greatly influence what I'll see, think works, and explain. I offer this merely as Pick-Up-Artist-Forum.com according to Hobbit, which I hope may help a newbie or two better understand the dynamics at play.

This place can be very helpful or very harmful, depending on what habits, behaviors, and world views that get adopted. Always remain skeptical.

Thanks, Hobbit, I'd just about given up on this forum and it's ability to help me.

I don't know if your ESL (English Second Language), but I have trouble understanding what you are asking.

I don't know if your ESL (English Second Language), but I have trouble understanding what you are asking.

Careful, you say "I know exactly what you mean"...

...but then say "this is the way, the other way is validation seeking/too serious."

Hobbit is trying to articulate a point about the way in which the life of a given Pick up Artists influences the scope of advice they give and how that advice when taken as a universal law can be counter-productive to someone un-concerned with that specific scope.

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I think this is a VERY interesting topic. I have also noticed in my experience, a trend of pua's who go straight from "AFC -> PUA" and never quite grasp what it is like to have a "normal life".

I can think of a couple of people I've known who went from having no friends and no partners to having a wild stop-start life of one night stands and vague mutual friends.

They live an arguably happy life but many of these people IMO are lacking when it comes to forming long term bonds or holding down friendships and it often shows to anyone who isn't a pua.

I think this community has to realise that a lot of its material is concerned with a very specific set of circumstances and individuals in mind and that a more tailored approach might be necessary to avoid scenarios where guys are trying to stick square pegs into round holes.

Being a PUA is not just about ONS. It's about improving overall and many gain the skills and knowledge to keep LTRs.

The only difference is a PUA would no longer settle for less in a relationship whereas, a "normal guy" usually deals with unnecessary drama from his girlfriend, or gets a oneitis or becomes the beta and girl cheats.

There are a few PUAs that just want different girls. Maybe they are addicted, but it's not all of them.

There is plenty of advice in the relationship section and you can go to Mid-game as well to navigate your way through. Maybe not as much as getting ONS, but it's something.

I'll say this though, learning to pick up and do a full close consistently in a club is much harder then keeping a relationship. If you have mastered that part, you only have a few adjustments to make to be good at day 2s and relationships. Most girls get clingy after you fuck them 2-3 times anyways.