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Don Draper
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:28 pm 
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hey don;

this is a girl I've been pursuing for a little while, and I'm wondering if she is flaking on me or if you think this was a legit response. I have been talking to her a lot, but recently invited her over for a little movie/get together at my house with some mutual friends. At first she seemed interested but when I asked her again she gave me a BS excuse (had to study). I called her on it and this is what followed.


me:
Quote:
hey
about the movie night
Honestly, do you actually want to come, or are you not interested? If you really don't want to watch movies, I'll won't mention it. But if you actually are too busy, I watch movies with people pretty much every weekend.

her:
Quote:
i really do want to watch movies haha
i just question your choices...warn me about any future naked fighting scenes!!!
yeah i really am kinda busy
i want to study
what are you guys watching tomorrow?

so, is this one worth pursuing? or is this just being nice?
"really am kinda busy"

What was that? A joke?

This girl just flaked on you in an absolutely obvious way, with an absolutely obvious excuse.

Now, I wouldn't know about your code of ethics, but I am none too forgiving for women who behave as such. I'd cut her out of my life for good, for such antics. I mean you tell me you both have been speaking to each other for a while now, talking to each other a lot and she agreed the first time to come over. Yet, she very coolly had no qualms about cancelling at the last minute. So, why bother with her?

Also, another explanation could be that she's just not comfortable being in the company of other people and being seen with you. A lack of comfort. And mutual friends being present there, she is not sure of the message she wants to send to them. So, could be a lack of interest and attraction too.

It could be a judgement on the girl, as on your abilities to attract women. Who knows?

Either way, you have a choice to make.

_________________
" You're born alone and you die alone and this world just drops a bunch of rules on top of you to make you forget those facts. But I never forget. I'm living like there's no tomorrow, because there isn't one. "
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Gurren
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:06 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm not giving up at all! Hehe , well about the conversation part that is cool , she studys psycholgy and im interested in that too , talk about human behaviour etc etc. Your answer made it clear to me and i heard what i needed to hear. I dont need allot of questions back now :)

So i have to be persistant and not wait 3-5 days like the other forum member adviced me? I allready thought myself that if i suddenly dont talk anymore that she wont re initiate the conversation even out of pride / needy ness.

Im thinking of tho what i should do , set up a date before the party? at the party? ask her number ? (again that would be)

Anyway, i think she didnt get the joke. She responded with Hahahaha what you can do for or with me? The people i approach only need to leave their name and e-mail adress. I do not know what more you are up to :P

I responded with well lets start adding my phone number with that and telling you to whats app me cuz this aint working too much. So i lined up 3 lines with e verything etc and she responded with :

Long text is long about her work boss. then a little sentence: Haha why aint FB working?

Ughh im getting tired of her not giving it haha its so weird!! because the next sentence she starts talking on own initiative that its her first free day of the week and she woke up early by kids in street the morning and its such a nice weather what should i do? Do you have any sunny plans? Xx


She invests as much as i do , maybe more lol but she takes long to respond tho mostly we exchange once a day ( was 3 or so in beginning ) I responded direct on her with :

Why aint FB working? Oh come on. I tought you wer the psychologist here. Let's be upfront. I like you , you like me. I don't know what more you need to accept my number but for me , that will do.

And responded to the chit chat ofc.
I think what's glaringly obvious is that there is a lack of an established comfort level between you and her. And to an extent, it's expected, you've JUST met her and to be fair, you don't talk much to her. One text a day will get you nowhere anytime soon. You need to start having conversations with something to achieve. With some definite aim. And keep talking to her, till you've got what you wanted. It could be anything, from a bunch of laughs to a confession of a secret to her telling you she likes you too. Whatever, man. Just have a goal in your head while you're talking to her, so that you don't indulge in aimless drivel and waste both her and your time.

Moving on, when I give suggestions here, I explicitly tell people to convert them in your own words. Otherwise, women will quickly notice the incongruence, because these words aren't "yours" they are mine and hence, they came from my frame. You need to just take the idea behind the suggestion and mold it in your language for maximum impact.

Also, if she laughed at the message, it means she felt some tension and was unsure of the implication, hence she used the 'hahahaha' route to get out of it. You didn't have to back down there, as you did. You should've carried on with the direct, slightly sexual tone and moved ahead. It's important to carry out the conversation from your own frame and to not buy into the woman's frame. That way you can dictate the process on your terms. Remember that.

Anyway, keep talking to her. Increase duration of conversation. Be direct, take chances. And when she's comfortable enough, ask for her number. Be patient.

Ye discovered what you said , always take in my own frame. Anyway you say comfort zone? I dont know about this. I should have reached the comfort level of a telephone quiete a while ago my feeling says its something else. Second , if this is the problem then i dont know what building comfort zone is wich i myself think i do know what it is. Im not trying to be cocksure here but Ive talked for 1,5-2h with this girl and had i pretty sure felt a connection we shared. I am a 100% i came across as a nice social guy who has interesting topics to talk about. This in my experience cant be the problem. She knows im not a stalker or whatever. Either she is not sexually interested or she's afraid ill text her too much and become a bother. I would have letten her go a while ago if she didnt add me to me to FB herself and if she wouldnt have given equal effords or boring conversation.
Its good because thats why i went direct with her (wich i learned i should always be) and got take it or leave it attitude. Telling her that I like her , she likes me and what more do you need for only a phone number and made it clear i want to text with her rather than call ( Told her you should SPAM me )

Second, I think you have a wrong image of the situation. It is like this : We send like 1-2x a day a message to eachother , wich contains discussion of mostly 3 topics. We do not chat , we send letters ( how you can see it)

Like her promotion work ,going to international festivals , Psychology and now she started about the weather and her free time. We just use alineas for this.
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Maven1489
 Post subject: Im a newb
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:12 am 
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The situation 

Okay so I'm new to the pick up game, I have been talking to this girl since I'd say augest, we had math class together,and she lost her phone over Christmas break so when college was back in session I got her number again,  now she has a math class before me and we see each other between passing period. She always come over and gives me a hug,when I text her she texts back, but after about two messages she stops texting back, and when ever I ask her a little personal question (ex...what do you do for fun) she never texts back. What should I do?
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Don Draper
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:40 pm 
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Quote:
Ye discovered what you said , always take in my own frame. Anyway you say comfort zone? I dont know about this. I should have reached the comfort level of a telephone quiete a while ago my feeling says its something else. Second , if this is the problem then i dont know what building comfort zone is wich i myself think i do know what it is. Im not trying to be cocksure here but Ive talked for 1,5-2h with this girl and had i pretty sure felt a connection we shared. I am a 100% i came across as a nice social guy who has interesting topics to talk about. This in my experience cant be the problem. She knows im not a stalker or whatever. Either she is not sexually interested or she's afraid ill text her too much and become a bother. I would have letten her go a while ago if she didnt add me to me to FB herself and if she wouldnt have given equal effords or boring conversation.
Its good because thats why i went direct with her (wich i learned i should always be) and got take it or leave it attitude. Telling her that I like her , she likes me and what more do you need for only a phone number and made it clear i want to text with her rather than call ( Told her you should SPAM me )
I think most people want to call rather than text.

And honestly, that's what I advise them to do too. Calling is always the better option because it happens in real time and there's no time to make up stories or construct answers. It's all on the spot, and you can be assured of a much more honest interaction there. Comparatively, to a bunch of words typed out on a screen anyway.
Quote:
Second, I think you have a wrong image of the situation. It is like this : We send like 1-2x a day a message to eachother , wich contains discussion of mostly 3 topics. We do not chat , we send letters ( how you can see it)

Like her promotion work ,going to international festivals , Psychology and now she started about the weather and her free time. We just use alineas for this.
And how long do you think you can continue this "letter sending"?

1 or 2 letters are day, are absolutely insignificant. There is so much to be shared between two people and that's where texting and calling help so much, because the speed of communication is faster and better. Of course, talking in person is the best way to go about this but we can rule that out, in your situation, for now.

Being Byron and writing love letters to her won't cut it in today's times, and especially not with a girl who's not ever given you her telephone number yet. Let's face it, if she "liked" you as much as you say she does, then she would have given you her number already.

I think I was wrong in my initial assessment. I took the attraction level between you and her as a given. Now, it seems to me that there just isn't enough attraction here. So, that's what you need to work on.

Be direct and flirt with intention. Stop talking about the weather, the office, the work and all that insignificant crap. Talk about her, talk about you and talk about you&her. That's all that you need to do.

_________________
" You're born alone and you die alone and this world just drops a bunch of rules on top of you to make you forget those facts. But I never forget. I'm living like there's no tomorrow, because there isn't one. "
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Don Draper
 Post subject: Re: Im a newb
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:44 pm 
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Quote:
The situation 

Okay so I'm new to the pick up game, I have been talking to this girl since I'd say augest, we had math class together,and she lost her phone over Christmas break so when college was back in session I got her number again,  now she has a math class before me and we see each other between passing period. She always come over and gives me a hug,when I text her she texts back, but after about two messages she stops texting back, and when ever I ask her a little personal question (ex...what do you do for fun) she never texts back. What should I do?
Well, maybe you're asking the wrong questions.

Maybe, you've not done enough to even build the basic amount of interest on her end.

Maybe, she is just polite the first time and replies out of courtesy, but after that she cannot be arsed with you.

There are a lot of question marks in the situation you described. A lot of holes.

What do you do when you meet her? Do you flirt outright? Do you try to kino-escalate? What do you say in your messages? Has she given any outright signal or said something which might indicate a concrete interest on her end?

Answer my questions and then, I'll be in a better place to answer yours.

_________________
" You're born alone and you die alone and this world just drops a bunch of rules on top of you to make you forget those facts. But I never forget. I'm living like there's no tomorrow, because there isn't one. "
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Buffbuilder19
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:38 pm 
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What do you think about text game with a girl who has a BF? This girl flirts with me hard, but then mentions how she can't leave her boyfriend because she loves him, even though she's saying that last time we hung out she really wanted to kiss me.

I said "maybe we shouldn't keep talking" and she opposed the idea.

I'm thinking to not text her unless she texts me, and when she does to ask if she wants to hang out again. I need to build some up her trust, and I need to build up kino. We were close last time we hung out where we cuddled in my bed. After, I took her home and she was worried I was going to hurt her again (because I ditched her for a girl 6 months ago) but I legitimately want her to be my gf.

-How can I build up the trust
-How can I build kino
-How do I make her leave her boyfriend for me?
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HereToday
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:06 pm 
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Don I don't know if you will be able to respond to this, but.........

I have been getting a good response from another lady for the past 5 days. Our date is tomorrow. I told her to call me, but she said she was headed to yoga. Now she has told me her schedule, she has yoga at 10:00am, work at 4:00am and she has not called me.

Should I have told her to call me? I told her this yesterday and today. We were literally streaming texts, one every 30 seconds, and I find it hard to believe she could not dial the phone to talk to me during yesterday and today.

She confirmed today that we still had plans, but then she gave me this SH!T TEST, "Yeah, but I'm not for sure, I'll keep you posted."

When I read this my heart sank. I knew it was a shit test, and I don't know what the fuck to do right now. I'm not gonna post again until tomorrow.

My prediction based on this alone is that she will not make our date tomorrow. Not sure how I should handle my next moves.
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Buffbuilder19
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:54 am 
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Quote:
Don I don't know if you will be able to respond to this, but.........
I know you asked Don but I've had situations like this and found the most effective way to deal with it is to make her feel like she missed out. When/if she texts you or calls you to confirm, tell her _____ joined you instead, or that another girl asked you and you took her offer since she was being non responsive. If anything, she'll know that if she doesn't take the next opportunity she may not get one. If she knows you are waiting on her, she'll have no issue wasting your time.
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PUAtWork
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:17 pm 
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Hello I need some help about a girl which is a Conniseuer (according to VinDiCarlo) and for those who dont know, she is a shy girl, with insecurities, makes a few and long relationships, and expects the man to be the traditional manly man..

Well I go to school 3 times a week for about 1 hour with her, and I have made a great impression to her, she knows im a good student with a future, and I have projected to her myself as cocky and funny, which i think she finds interesting.Below is a small conversation with her to understand some things about her.

She:When is the latin exam? (it is wayyy late from now, and she sended first, so i think she used that a conversation starter)

Me: in 4th of May, study because we are in trouble!

She: Damn, im gonna die!!

Me:But think about of what is coming next ;)

She: Whats coming next is worse than the exam :)

Me: What are you talking about?

She: More exams, you cannibal..

Me: I was talking about summer, beaches and stuff...but dont worry in summer Im gonna teach you how to live :D

She:Ha your gonna teach me right? Dont dream about beaches, tequilas and sombreros...

Me: Haha I see you in summer as a nun, closed in a monastery and reading Latin..., anyway I go cause i have a gym class...Goodbye Helen

She: And I see you at nights partying and going to the beach hahaha...Go to the gym class :)

Thats the first serious text conversation with her...when we are close to each other she pretends to hate me because i always outsmart her during class..Any ideas of how can I tell her to go out with her, or make the text-game more spicy without sounding AFC?

Also, How can I build rapport?

Thanks!!
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Don Draper
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:58 pm 
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Quote:
What do you think about text game with a girl who has a BF? This girl flirts with me hard, but then mentions how she can't leave her boyfriend because she loves him, even though she's saying that last time we hung out she really wanted to kiss me.

I said "maybe we shouldn't keep talking" and she opposed the idea.
I don't really think anything about "gaming" women who are in established relationships. If you think you can offer them a better situation than the one they are currently in, then by all means go and do all that you have to. But, don't be too overt about it. Be subtle, but direct. And always, always express how much you want her and desire her.

Oh, and while you're at it, refrain from bringing up her boyfriend or her relationship. That's none of your business and let her deal with that end of things. I assure you, she is more than capable of it.
Quote:
I'm thinking to not text her unless she texts me, and when she does to ask if she wants to hang out again. I need to build some up her trust, and I need to build up kino. We were close last time we hung out where we cuddled in my bed. After, I took her home and she was worried I was going to hurt her again (because I ditched her for a girl 6 months ago) but I legitimately want her to be my gf.
Well, I think you should keep texting her. Just reduce the duration. And don't make small talk. If you're texting her, drive it towards the topic of you and her, and the attraction between you both. At the same time, try to show her that you're a changed man now, than you were 6 months ago.
Quote:
-How can I build up the trust
By not repeating the same patterns that you did all that time back. If you want her to see you as changed, then you need to act and say things which she doesn't expect of you. Only when we behave differently from expectations, the other person thinks, "Oh. That's not what I expected. This is something different. Something has changed here."

Get it?
Quote:
-How can I build kino
Google ---> DiCarlo Escalation Ladder ---> Download pdf ---> Implement
Quote:
-How do I make her leave her boyfriend for me?
If you can create more attraction between you and her, than the one which is present between her and her boyfriend, she'll choose you over him. Simple. So, that should be your aim for now.

_________________
" You're born alone and you die alone and this world just drops a bunch of rules on top of you to make you forget those facts. But I never forget. I'm living like there's no tomorrow, because there isn't one. "
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Don Draper
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:02 pm 
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Don I don't know if you will be able to respond to this, but.........

I have been getting a good response from another lady for the past 5 days. Our date is tomorrow. I told her to call me, but she said she was headed to yoga. Now she has told me her schedule, she has yoga at 10:00am, work at 4:00am and she has not called me.

Should I have told her to call me? I told her this yesterday and today. We were literally streaming texts, one every 30 seconds, and I find it hard to believe she could not dial the phone to talk to me during yesterday and today.

She confirmed today that we still had plans, but then she gave me this SH!T TEST, "Yeah, but I'm not for sure, I'll keep you posted."

When I read this my heart sank. I knew it was a shit test, and I don't know what the fuck to do right now. I'm not gonna post again until tomorrow.

My prediction based on this alone is that she will not make our date tomorrow. Not sure how I should handle my next moves.
Actually, that's not a shit test. That's just her way of saying "I am not sure if I will flake on you or not." She's already dilly-dallying in her words. That doesn't bode well for you.

Also, tomorrow, send her a text in the morning telling her that she should be ready at so-and-so time, so that you can pick her up. And if she makes excuses, well you can save yourself the time wastage and take one of the two paths.

One : Work towards building more attraction and comfort with her, so that next time she doesn't exhibit the same behavior.

OR

Two : Say good riddance, and move towards another woman who is more appreciative of your time and efforts.

Choice's yours.

_________________
" You're born alone and you die alone and this world just drops a bunch of rules on top of you to make you forget those facts. But I never forget. I'm living like there's no tomorrow, because there isn't one. "
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Don Draper
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:11 pm 
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Quote:
Hello I need some help about a girl which is a Conniseuer (according to VinDiCarlo) and for those who dont know, she is a shy girl, with insecurities, makes a few and long relationships, and expects the man to be the traditional manly man..

Well I go to school 3 times a week for about 1 hour with her, and I have made a great impression to her, she knows im a good student with a future, and I have projected to her myself as cocky and funny, which i think she finds interesting.Below is a small conversation with her to understand some things about her.

She:When is the latin exam? (it is wayyy late from now, and she sended first, so i think she used that a conversation starter)

Me: in 4th of May, study because we are in trouble!

She: Damn, im gonna die!!

Me:But think about of what is coming next ;)

She: Whats coming next is worse than the exam :)

Me: What are you talking about?

She: More exams, you cannibal..

Me: I was talking about summer, beaches and stuff...but dont worry in summer Im gonna teach you how to live :D

She:Ha your gonna teach me right? Dont dream about beaches, tequilas and sombreros...

Me: Haha I see you in summer as a nun, closed in a monastery and reading Latin..., anyway I go cause i have a gym class...Goodbye Helen

She: And I see you at nights partying and going to the beach hahaha...Go to the gym class :)

Thats the first serious text conversation with her...when we are close to each other she pretends to hate me because i always outsmart her during class..Any ideas of how can I tell her to go out with her, or make the text-game more spicy without sounding AFC?

Also, How can I build rapport?

Thanks!!
Okay, this isn't a "serious" conversation. This is just shits and giggles, with no definite direction or intent whatsoever. As a rule of thumb, generally, you should try to avoid such meaningless drivel.

I mean, what was in the whole exchange which was direction about 'you&her' as in the both of you. There should be a flow and an aim in every text conversation. Something which you want from her, be it laughs or sexual messaging or blunt flirting. Whatever. And then, you need to line up your texts in order to achieve your planned goal. You'll find that this way, you will streamline your texting and your pick-up process and it'll lead to quicker and better creation of attraction, comfort and all that.

Also, try to show some sort of variation. Being a cocky-funny guy is fine. But, that's only one dimension to your personality. What else have you got? Show her more and more sides of you. Women love 'depth'. They love it, when men show them sides of them which they(women) didn't even know that they(men) had. That's the general idea here. The more layers you have to yourself, the more she'll be intrigued by you. It's a great hook and attraction builder wrapped in one.

Rapport is built by talking. Simple. So, talk as much as you can. But, about things which are interesting and different. Topics like Music, Travel, Beliefs, Past, Interests, Hobbies, Ambitions, Dreams and all that. They reveal the most about where a person is coming from, and where he/she will go. And sharing is a two-way street, so be prepared to contribute from your end too.

_________________
" You're born alone and you die alone and this world just drops a bunch of rules on top of you to make you forget those facts. But I never forget. I'm living like there's no tomorrow, because there isn't one. "
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pbj465
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:52 pm 
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I have gotten pretty good at meeting girls on OKCupid and getting them to the point that when I offer up my number they text right away and we continue conversing that way. My question for Don is how long in the texting/getting to know each phase do you stay before you escalate to calling and ultimately calling to set up a date. Is there a specific hook you're looking for or what? Thanks!
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Don Draper
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:59 pm 
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Quote:
I have gotten pretty good at meeting girls on OKCupid and getting them to the point that when I offer up my number they text right away and we continue conversing that way. My question for Don is how long in the texting/getting to know each phase do you stay before you escalate to calling and ultimately calling to set up a date. Is there a specific hook you're looking for or what? Thanks!
I wouldn't say there is a fixed duration about the whole process. It has to be decided by understanding how comfortable the girl is with you, and how much she is attracted to you. Calibrating to her states would be immensely helpful in deciding when to take the next steps. And that is done in person, in real time. So, I cannot be much of help with that.

However, here's my advice to you: Try to engage her in long conversations as much as you can. Talk about her and "us" and all that stuff, because that shows intent on your side and you can cut through a lot of bullshit by being honest and direct, trust me. And it works much, much better when women are aware of your intentions to an extent. Also, flirt openly. Tease, joke, banter with her. And when you feel like it, give her a call. I don't think there's any special reservations about a set number of days before you can call her. Calling is always better than texting, just so you know.

Finally, if you're starting on a Monday, ask her out on the weekend and see how much work is needed. If it isn't, well, you're already there.

_________________
" You're born alone and you die alone and this world just drops a bunch of rules on top of you to make you forget those facts. But I never forget. I'm living like there's no tomorrow, because there isn't one. "
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swagtastic
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:30 pm 
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Don, I have not responded back to this girl's text for over 12 hours, what are your thoughts on this? should i still continue the convo?
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