I didnt say you do not need to drink at all. I just said that if you rely on this crutch to approach, You = no skill whatsoever and you will not get good at this. period

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Greatness is never borned

I'm sorry to say this but if you and your friends are doing what you just said you are doing when going out you are more than complete pussies. What do you have between your legs? A dick or a pussy? Start acting and stop living in your mind. You are not rooted in reality

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Greatness is never borned

If you do drink, you have the have just the right amount...kind of like in Drunken Master with Jackie Chan

But seriously, the right amount could loosen you up and banish that approach anxiety.

However, do you really want to have to rely on a substance for your game to flourish? I personally wouldn't, that's where building inner game comes in.

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Inner Game is everything...be Unlimited!

Seductive Instinct for LIFE

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I'm sorry to say this but if you and your friends are doing what you just said you are doing when going out you are more than complete pussies. What do you have between your legs? A dick or a pussy? Start acting and stop living in your mind. You are not rooted in reality[/quot]

I never said we weren't. Just adding an observation about something some friends of mine always pull when we're out. I agree it's a bit silly.

I warmed up and burned in day game and my sober night game was beautiful man.
I didnt even have to DHV... being sober was clearly big DHV to chicks man... I was talking s2pid and non-sense things but escalating the hell out of her... she was so into me. and from that moment my self-confidence was like 100+.

Lol Valentyn is right, guys constantly rely on alcohol to approach chicks on a friday and saturday night and when you tell them to approach durning the week with NO ALCOHOL they freeze up and act like a pussy.
Like Valentyn said: you guys keep drinking while the others that don't need alcohol to have fun will constantly improve on gaming!

Having been around the block, and just looking back at my experience through my 20s and now through my late 30s, you can get away with a lot more in your 20s drinking. Also, young girls tend to get HAMMERED also. I remember I had friends that uses to crush when we younger saying the most stupid, outlandish drunk crap; I see some of the young guys in my office do it now. However, if you're older, I think its kind of a turn-off.

I personally don't like talking to girls too much when drinking, but its very hard to do, especially if you live in a big City like New York, because EVERYONE drinks. You will get funny looks from people some times, even in business situations let alone social.

When I think back though, I definitely did a lot better when I wasn't drinking as much, but I also could hold alcohol a lot better. I'm not saying I get stupid now when I get drunk, because I don't, but as someone pointed out if I'm doing well with a girl, I really can't recall totally why?

I went out NYE, late, it was after midtnight, while everyone was completely wasted. My doorman said to me, "MR X" you got it right, now's the time to go out anf get some." I met a buddy, and yes, I got a beer or two, but I was so much soberer than everyone else I was pretty much laughing at everyone. A girl came up to pick me up, full disclosure, she wasn't that great and a little "big" for my tastes, but I was like WTF, it's NYE and its not like I'm going anywhere else and she looked like she had a freak side, and she did.

I do find it challenging though to try and be sober talking to people who are, well, not....drunks tend to bond, male or female. People, women, even hot women can be very insecure as well. If you're not drinking it looks like you have the problem, not them. And let's face it, while I hate to admit, when I do start to drink, I do enjoy it, not to acoholic levels, but it can take over your objective.

Actually, a better story, it was Valentine's Day, I had a few drinks, but was fine. Some random drunk guy starts chatting me up, telling me I look like some Wall St. guy, etc., not in a nasty way, in a drunk idiot way, I'm amused. He's HAMMERED and dressed kind of sloppily, I'm still in work clothes. To get him away from me, I tell him he should talk to those girls, two cute girls at a table, I didn't think he was going to take me up on it, but he did and dragged me into it! Long story short, he freaked the hell out of them, I acted, well, normal, and I got one of their numbers. They took off because he was too much. I actually bought the guy a drink because he bought me one, he then starting getting a little beligerent, so I actually was txting the girl I just met what was going on, we were having some fun at his expense.....So, he was the initiator, defnitely the bolder one, but he came back with....nothing...

Cannot disagree more to this. Your inexperience in field is reflected by the way you talk.not drinking actually raises your value so much. I, on the contrary of you and 90% of guys on this site, I approach girls in clubs, street, bars being completely 100% sober all the fucking time. There's not one single time that one girl who was a little bit drunk or drunk wasn't surprised and actually loved the fact that I was sober. I always tell them that I look after my body and that I'm a soccer player.. which is 100% the truth. It raises my value a lot and they actually start to get embarassed by their situation (they have the problem not you). If I number close they will actually even say theyr sorry if they acted sloppy on the night we met.

Don't rely on alcohol guys..it's more than weak..dont be surprised when you will wake up with inner game bad as shit and you wont being able to pull the trigger when you're sober

In fact! I challenge this. Take a guy who drinks to approach girls. Put him on the street. Now say to him: See that hot girl who walked past you? Run after her get in front of her and tell her: "Oh my god..you're so fucking sexy I just had to talk to you! Who are you??!" He will shit in his pants. If he even lets say gathers the balls to do it..(which he will 99% not) he will be moving around looking stressed uncomfrtable which he will stay 15 seconds in set and than get shot down at. I'm saying this from actually working with guys and training them. Because guys like this become complete pussies..need to drink something to talk to a girl. This is insanity!

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Greatness is never borned

Valentine, you make excellent points and yes, I'm sure your out there much more with better experience than I am. I'm recently divorced, was committed to someone throughout my thirties, so I'm trying to maybe re-invent myself.

I actually like and admire the fact you hit your game, or your life for that matter sober most of the time. I'll admit, when I was younger I like to get messed up, not because to aid picking up girls, I just liked it. I even said even back then, I noticed that I did much better when I was drinking far less.

The soccer player thing is a great angle, and while I'm an active guy, no one is going to believe I'm a professional athlete. I play hockey, an advid skier and run a lot...well, you're from Montreal so you know the correlation between hockey and beer, but running, damn, my best marathon I ran at my oldest age and I was looser with my alcohol intake. Also, the running club I belong too has a lot of elite runners (I'm not one, but finishing the NYC marathon in 3:47 is nothing to be embarrassed about : ) ), but if I told you how much they boozed, even the girls, you'd be shocked....damn I still get shocked.

I actually do like and admire your outlook, its something I've been trying to incorporate myself. I do find it interesting that you're from Montreal and able to pull this off; it's been awhile since I been up there, but I recall as a fun "party town".

Then there's business, while getting completely rocked at a business event is frowned upon, and outside event??? Well, let's just say I was invited to the Van Halen concert at MSG, a firm had three corporate boxes, all guys and girls in my business, forget about them getting through the entire top shelf liquor and beer, all the bathrooms were being visiting with multiple parties quite often if you catch my drift..... I was proud of myself, from 7 to 10:45 I had only three beers and had no problem staying away from the powder non-sense....

You sound like you're somewhat younger and I'm glad to hear your making better life decisions than I did when I was your age. The reason I don't go to our company Christmas parties anymore is because MY BOSS encourages it to be a sh#$ show... we're getting a little off topic, but I can assure you some people do look at you oddly if you won't take a drink; you're absolutley right, it's there problem not yours....I'm just telling you the reality, sometimes.

I think I can learn a lot from you...thank you...

J

No problem mate. If you have any questions feel free to ask anytime you want. Good luck in life!

Actually I thought of you yesterday..I was at this girl's house and she lives with 4 other girls and one of them was high..the others wanted to smoke too and they asked me if I smoke. I said "no I take care of my body, I hit the gym and I play soccer at a really high level, I wouldnt touch weed even if you pay me" Immediately they just went wow really rare a guy like you..than they started talking about how guys who play sports are hot lol..and my target actually said sorry to me for at least 3 times because she smoked before and she thinks that I now see her as a junkie (which I dont really care I just want to fc). Just a real life example I'm giving to people reading this

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Greatness is never borned

Well it also depends how you react on alcohol, me for instance has never been drunk, yes i had more then once that i was sick of alcohol but drunk never. Although i love to drink and sometimes even alot on a night!

So for my case i don't see gaming without alcohol as a achievement because alcohol does not affect me much. It only makes me a bit more energetic wich comes handy.

Since i live in the countryside i drive alot to parties and sometimes my friends do. So yes i game often sober. Sometimes im doing it better when im sober then with alcohol.

HA, thanks for sharing the story, that's very cool. I'm not a weed smoker either. I think drugs are little different, I think I said this in another post, an old friend of mine was in town and called me, she was bombed. She meets meet at my place, starts cutting up some cocaine, I'm like "no thanks, I got work tomorrow." She wanted to drink, I just wanted to bang. I only have hard liquor in the place which I don't drink, so I made her a drink...the fact I wouldn't have a drink she was more perturbed at..ha, she even said, "I'm gonna suck you d@#$ soon, get a drink." I again declined, let her yap for a little bit...then you can pretty much figure out the rest.

I think there's no doubt most people do better picking up women sober. Now, I'm a little older, but I don't think most guys, I know I don't go out to get drunk and pick up girls, I think they just go out, drink, and see what happens. I'm starting to think I'd like to be more on a mission, but I have to solo game, I think. My one friend who's not married is the WORST wingman...I'm still figuring it out...I have a couple of good things in the pipeline, but I will most likely take you up on your offer...thanks!

J

I have to make a point here:

now if you want sleep with women just to get some, drunk or sober game doesnt matter if you just want to get low quality HB ( im talking about 4-5). just grab some ass and grind them, you srsly dont even need open, just take them on the shoulder and wave XD Since you already have the balls to grab them you gonna get one night stands.

The point that valentyn is supporting is mostly for getting quality women. the ones that you want to have dates with and spend good times with. That why training with no alcohol is important! Cause one day, when you are in the subway or just in a super market and the woman of your life come across you. What are you gonna do??? take out your flask and get drunk to approche her? Even if you pick her up. what you gonna do for the rest of the dates and relationship?? are you gonna stay drunk for all of them??

Drunk vs Sober, Its about quantity or quality.

For me, I rather close a 10s HB then 20 ugly 5s HB.

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Let change the world
One smile at time

Amen to that!

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Greatness is never borned

I have always thought that having few drinks will increase my courageous and decrease the fear of approach! Well, I read this thread when it first started and I decided to test it myself and see what happens!
2 night outs ( with a lot of alcohol): I went out with a girl from uni and we were having drinks at different pubs. Many approached her when I was with her. I got aggressive and she could feel that I was not comfortable. I didn't have any game that night or anything. The girl was into me and all but I was unable to fuck close.
Next night when I went out with 2 male friends for drinks I got drunk too and it was horrible. Instead of approaching we were sitting in the corner having drinks until we got drunk and acted stupid.

2 night outs with one or 2 beers only: Trust me, I felt so much comfortable and was able to hold much longer conversations that night! I kissed closed a girl in 3 min after i approached her, and I got few numbers too. The next night, I went out with a bunch of friends from uni.. Everyone apart from me were totally wasted. I felt disgusted by the shit they were doing. No wonder no one looks or even talks to me with a shit face like that! I did really well that night; got few numbers, and made out with of the girls that came with us. She was drunk, and i knew i had an opportunity so i took it!

To conclude i think it is much more awarding to go out and not get drunk! Alcohol won't give you confidence it will just make u feel like shit, and besides most of the girls like mature guys anyway so why not act like one and enjoy your time!

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In this world, you don't get what you deserve but what you fight for!