PUAs,

I'm very new to this stuff and trying to learn, even though I’m older (~50) than most of the guys in the forum. (BTW, I apologize for the very long post!)

I've had a few GFs over the years, a couple even long term, but I always felt I sort of accidentally stumbled into those relationships rather than getting into them because I “knew what I was doing”. (Even a blind squirrel occasionally gets a nut!) Generally, I was the "nice guy", the "friend", etc., but rarely got very far. I want to change that!

I finally started going out again after my last GF (of five years) passed away. It took a while to get over that and now I want to get back in the game, and this time actually HAVE some game.

Since I started dating again, I've been out with three different women. I've k-closed all of them, but f-closed none of them. I'm trying to see if the experts in the forum can spot some things that might indicate where I'm going wrong. I'll describe each one briefly, then I have some questions I'm hoping you guys can help with.

Woman #1. Met at a bar. Got her number. (Note: she had apparently just broken up with a long-time BF a week or so before I met her.) We texted some and her texts were generally longer than mine (IOI?). Anyway, set up a date later that week for dinner and a concert. That part of the date seemed good. Escalated kino, did some palm stuff and some hand holding, had my arms around her at times during the concert (she didn't seem to mind), did some dancing. After the concert, bounced to another (darker more romantic) place for desert and drinks. Kissed for a few minutes at the second place. Went back to her place and kissed just a bit more, but she didn't want to go any further, so I backed off. The next day we went back to the restaurant (and had lunch) where the concert was the night before (she forgot something there, so we went back to get it). When I drove her back to her house, we had this kind of funny talk in the car (she said I didn't have to walk her to her door). Later that same day she sent a text saying things like "...I'm trying to heal my broken heart ant there are other things not OK right now. I can only be your friend. I don't want to hurt you or anyone including myself or take advantage of your kindness. You are a nice person." We've texted a little since then, but I haven't seen her since.

Woman #2: Briefly met this woman (about my age, but looks younger) at a bar as I was hanging flyers for my (rock) band's upcoming gig at that bar (wow, a guy who plays in a rock band (and a pretty good one...should be a major DHV) and he still has trouble getting girls??). Anyway, we chat for a few minutes and I tell her she should come see my band. A couple of weeks later, there she is at the show! I didn't see her until our second set break. (first set break I was talking to a fairly HB...maybe she saw me talking to the HB...pre-selection?). On our second set break I finally see her and we're talking, I'm trying kino and escalating it some, I do some palm action, etc. and within about 10-15 min. we're doing some pretty heavy open-mouth kissing (and she even started it more than I did!). For me, that's a personal record time! She even asked "So, how many women have you picked up tonight?" (I wish!) That's as far as it went that evening (she left before our last set ended).

So, I get her number and I set up a date for the next Friday for dinner (to build comfort) and to go see a band where we could get a booth (for closeness) and then do some dancing. She wanted to meet somewhere, though I offered to pick her up at her house. Also, prior to the date she asks if we could just do dinner (she says she's really tired after a really hectic week). I say that's fine (though, I'm a little disappointed...didn't tell her). Friday comes and dinner I think went OK. Just general conversation...nothing too heavy or very sexual (mistake?). I did a little hand holding (though it wasn't the most "romantic" restaurant). She asked if I was a "touchy" person. I said "it depends who the person is". I asked about her and she said she's the same.

On the drive back to her car (about 30 min), I held her hand most of the way (maybe too much?), but she certainly never pulled her hand away. We get back to her car and we kiss a little bit (a minute or two) and she backs away a bit and says something like (paraphrasing here) "I don't know about you yet. Usually I get a chemistry right away with someone, but I'm not sure with you yet. We'll have to do this again. (Note: she didn't say it in any kind of obviously negative way. More matter of fact.)

Anyway, we went out again during the week for sushi. It was the shortest date I've ever been on. Over in 45 min. Unfortunately, pretty generic conversation (definitely need to work on putting a more sexual edge to things). So, I thought it was done with her. I can't believe that date helped with the chemistry she was talking about. Didn't contact her for a week, then texted her for the hell of it and asked if she be interested in doing a wine tasting. She said yes (surprisingly). Haven't gone out with her yet, but I think we actually might.

Woman #3: Met her at a bar. We were watching a band. Was toward the end of the night (she was a little drunk). We danced to the last 5 or so songs they played and at the end I k-closed her and got her number. We met for drinks about 10 days later (we were texting and emailing in between). (Note: she's separated and has been living in a condo for about seven months.) I think she does a fair amount of dating. As we were talking she said stuff like "every guy I meet works for company A or B or C or D. Anyway, drinks went well, I think. Good conversation, she asked a lot of questions about me (we seemed pretty compatible), she grabbed my ponytail, she re-started the conversation if there was a lull...all of these are IOIs, no? I did some kino and some hand holding, squeezed her hand and she squeezed back. After drinks, I walked her to her car and gave her a couple of kisses, but nothing too much.

I knew that two days later (on Saturday) I was going to be in her area, so Friday evening I sent her a text mentioning that and saying while I was in the area I'd like to take her out to lunch for her birthday (Saturday). She texted "can I call you in the morning?" I said sure. The next day, she doesn't call, but sends a text that says "Got home very late! Gonna stay in until my family takes me out." Don't know for sure, but I can't help wondering if her text was basically code meaning she was out or got picked up by someone she spent the night with. Hmm... Anyway, nothing Saturday.

Sunday night I email her to see if she wants to go see this local band she really likes that is playing the following Friday. She says three of her girlfriends called her about that. As far as she knows she'll be there with those three girlfriends. Then she says "Anyway I need to let you know that I am just out of a long relationship and I am really not in a good place to start another one yet. I am just hanging out with friends for now. So, if you want to be friends for now, that is great. If you are looking for more, then I guess you will need to keep looking. Hope you understand. "

So. I'm trying to figure out if there is a common thread. Especially woman #1 and woman #3. Went out on what seemed to be pretty good first dates with both and then I get the "...just broke up...friends..." thing with both of them. What went wrong?

I guess I'm more hopeful about woman #3. I'm trying to read between the lines of her last email. Do you think there is a chance she's saying she'd like to be friends (possibly even Friends With Benefits), but she just doesn't want anything *serious* right now, or do you think she really wants to be ONLY friends. She did say the "just hanging out with friends *for now*" (what is she doing for sex?). And she said,"if you want to be friends *for now*, that is great." Do you think maybe it could be more later?? Do you guys think I have much of chance with her? How should I play it with her?

Any thoughts about the above and any help with my questions would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks very much!