And whats your point? Which of the following issues to you seem easy to handle?

1. Some start losing faith in women as a result of meeting girls who cheat
2. Some seek validation for their attractiveness on whether they could have a ONS
3. Some end up wrecking others relationships
4. For some their reality gets shattered and they get far more confused

^ All of the above end up shattering inner game. And you are saying they "might" be easy to handle?

Why Not? With all these years of being a PUA and living with an abundance mentality you are saying you cant walk away from a girl, if in your own example above, you knew that its not in her interest.
BTW, that is a legal offence, if she is too drunk to stand you have just committed a crime.

Dont throw the 90% of the guys on this forum under the bus. Since you are bringing up this explanation they your thought. BTW, with the part above, are you agreeing or disagreeing with me because everything you said just shows immature behavior for any aspiring PUA. It further supports what I've been saying all along, that one requires maturity and that the player lifestyle may not be for everyone ~ although all that you said above is not the way a player wud behave.

sure but not for the reason you are stating, open a set of 9s, they are bitchy and not giving compliance, walk away, open a set of 9s, they are very compliant really friendly, and just broke up with a boyfriend down for a threesome, even if it is not in their best interest, it would certainly be in my best interest, don't know too many guys that would walk away from the set and that is besides the point, the majority of the time in almost all cases who is to say you are leaving her better then when you found her?, how can you justify this?, give some examples of how you left girls better off then how you found them?, were they happy you left them?, was it for the better?, did their lives turn out better?, did you take the path of aulterism and put her interests above your own?, I don't see the point you are trying to make here, it doesn't make sense to me, how many times have you walked away from good sets because you thought it might not ''leave them better''?
irrelivant, plenty of guys will still take a drunk girl home, and it would be silly to think you have never hit on a girl who was drinking, ever been to a club?, as for me throwing 90% of guys under the bus, not everyone has the same view of morality that you do, there is a sticky post dedicated to the straw man technique, there are litterally 100s of posts from guys wanting to lay a girl with a boyfriend (possibly thousands), and the morality in these situations is subjective to the person in question and for you what is ''wrong'', is just another day of life to someone else, as for immature behavior once again subjective to your own opinion, you might think not taking the moral high ground is immature, I might think living in a world blinded by some sort of false honour system that no one lives up to but yourself is ignorant, often the outcome of a social situation is not thought out and the only thing in mind when entering the social situation, is self interest, not fufilling the agenda of the people you are meeting, it is

-I want to sleep with these girls

-I want to meet these people

-I want to have fun

-These people look cool I wounder what they are about

this ^ is reality for most
it would be pretty silly to think someone is walking around opening sets going

-these people look interested in me, so as a result I'm going to spread sunshine and rainbows to these people and if they are rude I will be super nice and buy them some drinks, then leave them alone when they are fed up with me

-I'm going to go check this set out and see if these people are in a good mood if so I'll leave them alone, but if they are in a bad mood I'll try to make them happy then leave them alone, better then how I found them

-Ohhh I've been giving this girl attention for two weeks and she wants to sleep with me and I want to sleep with her, but im leaving to russia in two weeks, Oh well I'm not going to sleep with her because she might feel hurt and emotionally attached if I leave for russia after sleeping with her, better to leave her better off then how I found her

-oh this girl is flirting alot with me and she has a boyfriend but wants to cheat on him, Oh well I best not break up a good thing, if he finds out this could be a bad thing for her, best to leave her better off then when I found her

this ^ is not reality for most

[/quote]


Too drunk to stand ≠ drinking at a club. And it doesnt take someone a lot of skills to figure out whether a girl is too drunk to stand v/s she not drunk

Your assumption for the argument itself is incorrect.
Its not about Moral high grounds to know that if a girl is too drunk to stand its WRONG for you to sleep with her - ITS ILLEGAL. And you cant argue the case by saying "plenty of guys do it". Still doesn't make it right !

Anyways.....
Irrelevant to the discussion, There is a difference between being a social retard and socially caliberated. All of the above are hypothetical examples of being social retard, No point going on a downward spiral discussing these.
^ This just a mere rant and is not making a sound argument.
The discussion is not about whether you leave her better off or not, its about developing the maturity, inner game along the path from AFC to Player Lifestyle - And that it isn't all rosy for a player as it isnt for an AFC. And that the over-hyped player-lifestyle may not be for everyone and its ok even if you dont get there. It has its own disadvantages and can easily lead to problems if one doesnt develop the right maturity and inner game to manage/live at this extereme.

pumpington, you started off well initially but your last three posts have been downward spiraling w/ mere hollow comments w/o sound reasoning...

Besides you never answered this -
[/quote]

Anyways lets Conclude

To Conclude, I'd go back to this:

On a Scale of 1 to 10, 1=Getting Nowhere as an AFC and 10= complete Ladies Man living a promiscuous lifestyle that hinges on only ONS.

As a PUA when someone is moving from 1 to 10, the post says - try developing an awareness and understanding of how to handle both urs and the girl's emotions, its not an easy thing. Not too many ppl can successfully do that. Many ppl hurt others and damage their ownselves in the race to live a promiscuous lifestyle.

Dont be in hurry to get to the lifestyle of 'the 10' by wrecking the emotions of
people you come close with; because with being that promiscuous ONS kinda guy also comes some responsibilities. We all are responsible if by our actions we wreck the emotions of others. If you do not develop the maturity along the way to manage expectations and take responsibility, chances are you'd wreck urself and damage the confidence/respect/trust of a lot of other ppl along the way.
Also, be proactive in developing other parts of ur life along the way.

Side Note: And its also Okay to stop half way thru in this journey if you meet the right girl or wud like to get into a relationship - there is nothing wrong in enjoying a good relationship w/ another person - dont sell her short because you want to move to the next one.

Amen,
Marc

Too drunk to stand ≠ passed out on the ground,
Too drunk to stand = not able to stand still due to drinking
whether you can figure out if a girl is drunk or not had nothing to do with my point,

My arguement is self interest vs the interest of others before yourself and that was the focal point of my last post, and is totally relevant to your original post and followups, ignoring this point now is avoiding a key issue brought up in your posts,

the bolded/underlined above is a contradiction,
my point gets at that exactly it is not about right or wrong, it is about your own self interest vs another persons interest before yourself, ''leaving them better then you found them'', it does not realisticly happen, and saying it does, and you do it, is just how you justify your own self interest

how is this irrelevant?, socially intelligence had nothing to do with that point, it is self interest vs the interest of others before yourself, can't leave her better unless you are looking out for her interests, which I guarentee you are not, and rationalizing it that way is simply taking the moral high ground suggesting you know what is right and wrong for a person, this just helps keep your own self esteem in tact, after all you are doing what is right, but morality it's self is subjective to the person in question and what is right and what is wrong is different from person to person
This is simply pointing out the difference between going into a set looking out for your own self interest vs looking out for the interest of others before yourself, this discussion at this point is totally about leaving her better, if you don't think so then it is questionable what posts you have been reading over the last page,

the player lifestyle ''can'' lead to problems, so ''can'' the lifestyle of a house troll that never leaves his house and remains a virgin for 50 years,

there is no link to these problems and a promiscuous sex life, some guys will have problems, some guys will not, there is no proof or correlation between the lifestyle and these problems, simply how people cope and adapt to obsticles placed in front of them, having one girlfriend in your life or having two-hundred can lead to these things all the same,
the point was not if these problems were ''easy'' or ''hard'' to handle in the first place, it was that these problems may or may not present themselves to you to begin with, and you can find yourself facing these problems without being some mega pimp player ladies man anyways, they are just common problems assosiated with dating, some guys have a huge problem with girls that cheat, some just next them and don't care, some guys just never get cheated on, some guys seek validation through how many girls they can fuck and how fast they can do it, some guys just like to get laid and love women, some guys can't get laid if their lives depended on it, some guys have a fetish for making girls cheat on their boyfriends/husbands, some guys are soundly agaisnt this, it is an issue of the persons morals and what is right or wrong to them, some guys will even sleep with a girl and not even know she is in a relationship until after, or will never find out, some guys are amazed to find out that girls actually want to fuck them when they put effort in?, sure I don't see how this is a problem

no one can do what you are suggesting, if you regularily sleep with different people and don't fufill their agenda, as a result you will hurt people, it can not be avoided, it is an issue of your self interest vs the other persons interests
again does not matter how mature you are, some girls will want you, and when they can not have you, they will feel hurt, no matter how you handle it, you can not be half a player, you are either a player, or you are not, there is no such thing as the fluffy bunny bring joy to the world make everyone's life better player, if you sleep with alot of women, you will hurt quite a few, just like how guys get oneitis and can't have the girl they want, they feel hurt when they realize that, but life goes on, and it can't be helped, if the girls were looking out for the needy guys self interest then all the oneitis cases would get laid by their oneitises but that is not how this works, and it is the same vice versa
good point

I dont understand why Ur still arguing on this - ITS ILLEGAL
She is completely inebriated. You cant justify this by any moral or legal standards

For your argument about self interest vs the interest of others before yourself - Do you mean to say that (a) year after year of being with multiple women you still have no judgement for whether to walk away from a 'lay' or not?

(b) Why does it have to be one or the other to the extereme ends i.e. Self interest V/s the interest of others?

I'd suggest going back to some of the examples that Kasabi has on his post on the 1st page and read that again in totality. To me its not about supporting one or other extereme ends of the lifestyle but the fact to develop an awareness of how your actions are affecting others and not try to justify them by cliches or by saying 'you dont know whats good or bad for her so do whats in your best interest'
shud be ur answer to the argument about self interest v/s interest of others

In addition,
Explain to me how the issues from 1 to 4 do not have a high probability of occuring with a promiscuous lifestyle. And if you arent aware of them and have some maturity of handeling them, how are you not raising the chances of wrecking either you or girl emotionally.

Jumping from one person to the other and sleeping with multiple women is fine, you and I we have all done this, but wudn't it be better to develop a strong sense for if ur own self interest is leaving someone, if not you, wrecked ?

Going back to the OP - Its not about choosing a lifestyle Monogamy v/s polygomy, both brings its own set of issues. But that fact that one is oblivious and disregards the issues that a player lifestyle might attach to it is dissolutional

Okay, you cant for 100% of the time manage the expectations to the nth degree, but shud that stop you from making a sincere effort?

who exactly do you know that has been arrested for picking up a drunk girl? if you don't know anyone who has slept with a drunk girl, then that would lead me to believe you don't party/go clubbing, I fail to see what point you are stressing with this, besides ''it's immoral, it's illegal!'' totally has nothing to do with people either doing this or not doing it out of self interest, j-walking is illegal too, what is your point exactly?
the point is, if the agenda aligns or not, you will always be looking out for your own self interest before the interest of others, if the agenda's align, cool beans, but that is not the intent behind your actions, thus ''leaving her better'' is a joke, and claiming that is the aim, is just a justification for self interest,

Do you agree or do you not agree, that when you approach, you do so out of self interest without the interest of the other person in mind?, extremes, absolutes, examples, what ever, do you, or do you not approach out of your own self interest or do you do so out of the interest of others?, have you or have you not ever had sex with a girl or tried to have sex with a girl whos agenda was not being fufiled but you continued to be dominant to fufill your agenda?

where is your arguement?
either you are in favour of supporting my arguement, or you are in favour of argueing agaisnt it, which is it?
are you for leaving her better?, or are you for leaving yourself better?

do you go for what you want?, or do you go for what she wants? stop avoiding the issue and address it, where do you stand?, original post says you stand in favour or ''leaving her better'' chasing her self interest, are you saying you have never pursued a girl in your own interest contrasting hers?


In addition,
probability has nothing to do with this, your original point was you will face these problems, and they may or may not be hard to handle, are you changing your position?

explain to me how these issues will always occur, and explain how somehow these issues are correlated to learning pua and being promiscuous rather then just issues that are dependant on the person and have nothing to do with how promiscuous they are, I have done enough explaining for you in the past posts, you can go look through them for my arguement agaisnt your list of problems, you handed out an absolute and it has been challenged with examples of contradictions
this was part of my original first post, if your agenda aligns with her agenda, that's great (in the long term at least), but really that is not your top priority and people are always looking out for their own self interest, if they justify it that way or not, and as for not being able to manage expectations always and letting it stop you from pursueing someone this simply agrees with my position, you approach out of self interest, if your agendas align, great, but sometimes they don't but you can still fufil your agenda, go for what you want and as long as you can tell yourself, meh, I'm a selfish asshole, but at least I know that, then you can justify your ends, if you don't do this, I would sure love to hear about it, you leave sets that are going well from the off chance she wont be ''left better''?, you have never pursued your own agenda over someone elses?, you are purely aulteristic in nature?

You brought up this example, and quite frankly its pretty rediculous to compare
J-Walking to sleeping w/ a girl who is too drunk to stand. And 'lot of people do it, so it must be Okay', 'No one has ever been caught so it must be legal' is a way that worst offencers TRY TO justify their offence.

We wud never see eye to eye on this one, as this is no PU stuff, its just plain rediculous.

NO, Are you fucking kiddin me ! It seems you think of sex as a cookie jar where you put your hand in and take as much as possible

2 yrs back Chief had said something which stuck w/ me and made a lot of sense - Sex is something that two ppl share not something that one person gives and another takes -

I may not have slept w/ as many women as most guys claim but I refuse to have this cookie jar mentality.
Lasnite, I was dancing w/ close to 7 women in total, taking turns. Saw a fat girl in the corner who looked ignored by all guys. went up brought her to the dance floor and had a great time.

Another night, a girl on a wheel chair was staring at the dance floor. brought her to the middle and danced w/ her. Every one made way for us and loved it.

Random nights, the fat friend on the HB10 always gets used by guys to talk to the HB and then later ignored. I end talking to her, just for her and then get HER intro to other ppl so that she has a good time too. All this done, w/o even bothering about the HB, who ofcourse follows later and makes an effort to be extra nice to me and my group.

Read the examples above and you'll get your answer.
PU is the ability/knowldege of connecting w/ women and being an attractive male/mate

Might ≠Will

Is this tough to interpret ?

When you started off I thought that you probably had absolutely no issues and a good mental frame. But your 'cookie jar' approach and the other examples about drunk girls makes you come across silly and makes me rethink.


Nontheless...

ok, cool

ok, cool
ok, the thing is, by not just giving me a yes or a no, I will assume you are completely aulteristic in nature, and always leave them better and don't do things based on your own self interest... you are a rare breed sir, but good man, good on you, you are truly a nice person