I might pick up some heat for this but what the hell I'm writing this after having a long conv. with a close friend who is by far one of the best ladies man I've met.

Sex and intimacy creates strong emotions, and to treat it like a sport, esp.early on in your life, is to disregard the power and effect it can have on you and your partner. Like any power, when abused, it leaves a scare and alters the way you view the world. People being cheated, sex being used as a powerful manipulation tool for promotions - even with high ranking executives who have led men and companies, Governors, Top Sportsmen, hell even an Ex President - all losing their respect and in some cases power of position as a result of being consumed by their need to have sex or find intimacy!

Even the most accomplished PUAs find it difficult to handle emotions and fail most of the time to leave their partner better off then they found them!!

Hanging out with guys successful with women I found one thing common in them -
they all started off at a very young age. Blow job from an aunt, sex with older brother's girlfriend, multiple partners when they were still in school etc.. Granted they are good with women but to a certain extent they admit they have intimacy and relationship issues. And yes, with the exception of 3, others are either single, never been married, or divorced.


On one end the community supports sexual liberation but it is the same liberation that opens the flood gates for a lot of new problems that one might find it difficult to handle. -

1. Some start losing faith in women as a result of meeting girls who cheat
2. Some seek validation for their attractiveness on whether they could have a ONS
3. Some end up wrecking others relationships
4. For some their reality gets shattered and they get far more confused
5. To some Alpha = Physical strength and ability to mock ! - This is comical
6. Animal kingdom does this so must Humans !
7. Etc..

For anyone who agrees with the above, my suggestion would be, to get your life together first - build your foundation in your late teens and all through mid 20s that could set you up for a life long success. get your social life together but dont let it get validated by how many people you slept with. Learn the norms of PUA if you want to become an attractive male but also learn how to responsibly apply your self.

READ NEXT TO THE CAPS, NOT YELLING, MY STYLE:

might pick up some heat for this but what the hell I'm writing this after having a long conv. with a close friend who is by far one of the best ladies man I've met.

Sex and intimacy creates strong emotions, and to treat it like a sport, esp.early on in your life, is to disregard the power and effect it can have on you and your partner. Like any power, when abused, it leaves a scare and alters the way you view the world. People being cheated, sex being used as a powerful manipulation tool for promotions - even with high ranking executives who have led men and companies, Governors, Top Sportsmen, hell even an Ex President - all losing their respect and in some cases power of position as a result of being consumed by their need to have sex or find intimacy! THOSE HIGH RANKING OFFICERS FOR EXAMPLE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT GETTING LAID, OR HAVE NO GAME, or in fucked up marriages FOR EXAMPLE Hermain cain

Even the most accomplished PUAs find it difficult to handle emotions and fail most of the time to leave their partner better off then they found them!! NOT TRUE AT ALL, EVERY GIRL I HAVE BEEN WITH I HAVE MADE BETTER IN EVERY ASPECT OR THEIR LIFE, AND WORST CASE SCENARIO THEY GOT A GOOD FUCK...

Hanging out with guys successful with women I found one thing common in them -
they all started off at a very young age. NOT TRUE AT ALL, A LOT OF THE MPUA STARTED IN THEIR 20S, MID 20S OR LATE 20S....Blow job from an aunt, sex with older brother's girlfriend, multiple partners when they were still in school etc.. VERY IGNORANT STATEMENT Granted they are good with women but to a certain extent they admit they have intimacy and relationship issues. YES THEY HAVE INTIMACY ISSUES CAUSE THEY HAVE MANY WOMEN TO CHOOSE FROM IS CALL ABUNDANCE...And yes, with the exception of 3, others are either single, never been married, or divorced. AGAIN THEY HAVE ABUNDANCE, OR THEY SUCK AT RELATIONSHIP WHICH IS A DIFFERENT GAME ALL TOGETHER...


On one end the community supports sexual liberation but it is the same liberation that opens the flood gates for a lot of new problems that one might find it difficult to handle. -

1. Some start losing faith in women as a result of meeting girls who cheat. FINALLY SOMETHING OK...
2. Some seek validation for their attractiveness on whether they could have a ONS.
3. Some end up wrecking others relationships
4. For some their reality gets shattered and they get far more confused
5. To some Alpha = Physical strength and ability to mock ! - This is comical
6. Animal kingdom does this so must Humans !
7. Etc..

For anyone who agrees with the above, my suggestion would be, to get your life together first - build your foundation in your late teens and all through mid 20s that could set you up for a life long success. get your social life together but dont let it get validated by how many people you slept with.SOME PEOPLE JUST ENJOY THE CHASE AND THE PLEASURE OF SLEEPING WITH MANY DIFFERENT WOMEN, THE PLAYBOY DUDE HEFNER Learn the norms of PUA(LOL THE NORMS OF PUA) if you want to become an attractive male but also learn how to responsibly apply your self. THAT MAKES NO SENSE AND EVERYBODY DEFINITION OF SUCCESS IS DIFFERENT... AND YOU CAN RESPONSIBLY APPLY YOURSELF AND LIVE A LIFE DEDICATED TO SEDUCING WOMEN...

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

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http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

You are exactly right - Bill Clinton, Eliot Spitzer and Tiger Woods are/wre all in miserable marriages ! Should we get the facts checked? - These are only the famous one, dont even get me started on the ones that dont make it to the news.
I couldnt agree more - In every century there has to be one Don Juan, one Casanova and one skills360.


Read the first statement again.
Yes some MPUAs started late and still are messed up e.g. Mystery, Sinn (trying to commit suicide) - you are helping my argument that handling women, sex, intimacy and being a ladies man is not everyone's cup of tea, even if you start late and can score - Thanks.
Intimacy issues does not come from abundance - You are mis informed - http://joy2meu.com/Fear_of_Intimacy.html[/url]

Why Not !

Hugh Hefner tried and failed at married twice. Tried again when he was 85yrs old but his fiance ran away just 5 days before the wedding leaving him for a grand public humiliation.

If he is your model of what a life of a playboy shud look like then why not But remember He still has the brains, mental stability, creativity and charisma to run a company and make millions. Do you the avg Joe, have what it takes.

BTW. Hefner's wife cheated on him which he calls the most devastating moment of his life. He didnt get there by choice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Hefner[/url]

Yes we are in agreement.

If success to the reader is in being the 45yr old fart who frequents clubs, oogles at 21 yr olds and drops one liners then thats fine. If success to you is in deliverying pizza or being a Walmart greeter as a 50yr old then thats fine. All of these can have a life long devotion as a 'seducer of women'. But if you want to aim any higher and devote your early years in laying that foundation then recognize and respect the power that sex and intimacy can create and be responsible with it

Marc,

Honestly, I wonder about this all the time if im fucking my head up by perusing women in this fashion. I regularly wonder if its really just the fear of getting close to a women that keeps me in the one night stand or fuck buddy mindset. Part of me likes it but I will have to admit that I would be lying to myself if i thought it was the way a "normally" wired person acts.

With that being said and reading your post, I will be seeking a relationship out of the girls I meet and looking for a good one.


Thanks for going against the grain man.

Dude, hefner was an example, second you can be extremely successful and get girls, you are making it sound like if you are not "married" and still sleeping around and chasing tail and going to clubs you are a failure that is very ignorant... As a matter of fact, married guys fantisise about being for example single sleeping around, while we in turn are fucking their wives, at least me, if you do not believe me just look at my lay, field reports, there is not one weekend that goes by that i do not seduce and unhappily married women, unintetionaly not planned... Happened this weekend once again, anyways, dude i know you are trying to take a shot at sexaddict, to get married and have kids an all that stuff is very very simple, some people choose to live their life they way they want, intimacy issues what does that mean? your link does not work.. those so call married guys are the ones in strip calls or calling escorts...

_________________
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I think he just means, sometimes you just cant have everything.

Not at all, why do you say so. The intent of the post was not to get guys to get married, I'm not opening a marriage bureau anytime soon so I dont care whether they think of marriage or not !


Even if we believe that was true, its one thing to fantacise and another to act upon it. It takes a whole lot of heart for someone to be able to consistently cheat on someone they love - But thats out of context for this post !



More power to you ! I cant imagine ever being a part of circus where one partner is cheating on another. I just cant fathom it - so you must have reached new heights that I can never imagine reaching or wanting to.


Again, where did you get that from? I mentioned right at the beginning that the thought surfaced after a conv. with a close friend.


This is where I have to strongly disagree. I cant even begin to start off with the level of committment, professional personal and emotional one would require for both marriage and raising kids.



Google it.

Thanks you are helping the argument that intimacy and sex is very powerful and one that shudnt be taken lightly as a sport - its addictive, it cud make you do things you necessarily wudnt. So try to be responsible in the way you go about managing handling this power.

Dont think too much about it, that wouldnt help. For you specificly, all that I cud say is dont necessarily go for one or the other (ONS or Relationship). If a girl is a relationship material then dont sell her short with just a ONS and if she is just a ONS kinda girl then dont drag yourself into a relationship.

You'll figure it out yourself, we all did at somepoint.
On the contrary I mean, Do you want to have everything "ladiesman". Can you handle being one, is it for You, do you want to - if not then there is nothing wrong with it and if yes then develop yourself as man who can responsibly handle this power.

Okay. So you mean, Know what you want?

great post!

the main problem is what exactly does that "get your life together" mean? That IS the question. How to be a man? If I could understand this, there'd be no problems anymore...meh...

Music doesn't make the musician angry, melodramatic, thoughtful, loving, etc . . . When they learn to create it, all they do is use music as a tool to express what's already inside.

Likewise, PU probably can't be blamed for intimacy issues. By the time most figure PU out, whether by actively studying it or by accidentally 'running into it', the dice are already cast; they're just going to PU in the way that they're meant to do it. Nobody knows what goes on in somebody else's mind. All we can do is hear what they say and see what they do. And judging by this, there seems to be plenty men and women who are 100% content with 100% monogamous relationships. There are plenty people who marry their high school sweethearts and raise honky dory happy kids till the day they die. Some of us can't understand this just as they can't understand the desire to bang total strangers for a lifetime.

A monogamy intended person will stir out of the path of a pua. They don't frequent "meat market" clubs. They don't go out on many random dates . . . and if they do, they make sure that there's monogamy ahead. Totally open people are easy to find. The reality is that most people probably fall in between these two extremes and that's where the complexities rise. The "Leave them better than you found them" phrase is probably the most ridiculous and condescending cliche' in PU. I had a debate about this with Chief long ago but it comes down to an egotistical mindset that WE actually know what is good for them. And you'll notice that the worst offenders will typically punctuate this cliche' with "Hey, at least she got a good lay out of the deal. Har, har, har. . ."

If you've met enough girls, you KNOW that most of them fall within the two extremes mentioned above. But whether it's due to ignorance, lack of self control, or wishful thinking, many will simply nod and place themselves into the wringer hoping that they won't get squeezed. I haven't been with as nearly people as many in this forum claim that they have . . . and perhaps I'm not very talented at communicating my intent, but I find it difficult to believe that guys here have not experienced mentally torturing a poor girl. It's easy to say, "Well, I explained everything so she's the delusional one," but whether she is delusional or not, the pain felt is genuine.

Valentine's day is coming up. . . nobody here has gotten phone calls a few days after from girls who 'knew' it wasn't exclusive but is 'disappointed' that you didn't plan a day/night with her? . . . and the only reason she waited a few days is so that she could compose herself enough to make a call . . . She told her friends about you, her aunt about you. . . and was excited about what to wear . . . and you're out humping the girl you found a week prior to V day? Ever wreck a marriage before it got started? "They shouldn't have gotten married any ways," right? Ever ruin good friendships, "We shouldn't have been friends any ways," right? Ever been cried and screamed at until she doesn't even care if she's drooling in front of you? "What a crazy, angry bitch. Glad I escaped this one," right?

I am not sure if doing what WE think is right,(telling her our intent, being forthright about the arrangement) then watching it unfold in negativity necessarily equals "Leaving her better than we found her." After going through a few of these, shouldn't we take a little more responsibility? Isn't it sometimes better to not bring her into the mess in the first place?

What do those crazy pedophiles always offer as an excuse? "Dur . . . I didn't know she was 14. She had an id that said she was 19!" - Really? You had no idea?

What do we offer as an excuse? "I told her my deal 100%" - Really? After all these years and similar outcomes, you had no idea it would end this way?

If some of you guys know the big secret for 'leaving a girl better than you found her', I'd love to hear it.

@Marc
I don't see how age is a precursor to how successful some guys will be with women, sure some start early, but also some start late, some start in between

motivation seems to be more of pre-cursor to success then the age a guy begins to find success, maybe a guy is really good looking and has girls throwing themselves at him at a young age so he starts pursueing women earlier, maybe a guy becomes rich in his 30s and finds his job position and financial status are getting him female attention and he starts to pursue women, maybe a guy is motivated by a lack of women and descided no matter what he will figure it out and actually goes through the effort to go pursue women until he finds a way, it always seem to come down to motivation, those that take action get results, those that sit around with a thumb in there ass and have no motivation accomplish nothing reguardless of age
different strokes for different folks, some guys get into this and don't even develope those problems and just get the results they wanted, really just depends on the person
why can't you just do this and pursue women at the same time?

@kasabi
why do we even have to leave them better then we found them? there is no point to ''leaving her better then you found her'', most people seem to be focused on their own agenda and there is no point, if you can find someone with the same agenda as you and you both gain something mutually this would obviously be preferred, (in the long term at least) but honestly at the end of the day, if you can just take what you want and look back saying,

yeah im a selfish asshole, but at least I know it, and you are fine living with yourself after that, then at least you can justify your means

but in the same way if you keep telling yourself hey, I left her better then I found her, she got a good fuck, then you can just lie to yourself finding justification based from self interest, after all no one wants to damage their own self esteem on purpose (or at least it makes no sense to do so)

if you can somehow make someone better just because they spent time with you, cool, but I don't think that the means in these cases are nessicarily being justified for that specific end, seeing as how our agenda is usually just getting laid and is not always shared, and not only that but it is not only men who are motivated through self interest and plenty of guys find themselves ''left better off then when they were found''
eg. friendzoned / ignored and flaked on, after all girls do this so you ''don't feel bad''

@skills360 not nessicarily, there are plenty of people that have sexual addictions that have the ability to feed that addiction entirely, and as a result problems in their lives occur, and then there are people who have problems that surface from a lack of an ability to feed their addictions, and high status guy, and no game is somewhat of an oxymoron, as a highstatus guy is the equivilent of a hot girl, sure they could not be getting laid, but it would be more by choice then lack of ''game'' (since good game is just a projection of status)

some really good points in this thread, but overall, everyone is motivated by a different agenda, and we all in one way or another serve self interest, everyone has a different goal based on self interest and one mans success is another mans failure, having everything so black and white is not fair to those that have a different concept of what black is, and what white is

@skills360
Quote:
THOSE HIGH RANKING OFFICERS FOR EXAMPLE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT GETTING LAID, OR HAVE NO GAME, or in fucked up marriages FOR EXAMPLE Hermain cain

not nessicarily, there are plenty of people that have sexual addictions that have the ability to feed that addiction entirely, and as a result problems in their lives occur, and then there are people who have problems that surface from a lack of an ability to feed their addictions, and high status guy, and no game is somewhat of an oxymoron, as a highstatus guy is the equivilent of a hot girl, sure they could not be getting laid, but it would be more by choice then lack of ''game'' (since good game is just a projection of status)

some really good points in this thread, but overall, everyone is motivated by a different agenda, and we all in one way or another serve self interest, everyone has a different goal based on self interest and one mans success is another mans failure, having everything so black and white is not fair to those that have a different concept of what black is, and what white is


@pumpington.


sexual addiction in the minority, most of them, in marriages were the sexual needs are not being met... Pumpington other than that everything you said very good, about the age most people become successful at 40... Marc has no idea what he is talking about at least he is consistent...

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Skill360, U've either given an example and retracted and then tried to back it up with comments "such as how you sleep with married women...." AND/OR, have agreed to another poster's comments and contradicted urself in the very same statement. Why dont U take a moment to gather Ur thoughts and follow through with sound reasoning -


And I'm the one who has no idea of What I'm talking about ! Anyways.......

You are right - Age is not a pre cursor to how successful a guy wud be w/ women and I'm not even measuring success by the yard stick of age

But I'm saying that one requires a certain level of maturity to HANDLE that SUCCESS RESPONSIBLY. I'm saying that, it is not everyone's cup of tea to be able to handle that success, and as a result a less matured individual cud end up w/ issues and self doubt - hence be careful of how successful you want to be in having a promiscuous lifestyle - Honestly pumpington, we all know that maintaining a promiscuous lifestyle brings about its own set of issues and its not as rosy as its always made out to be.
Comeone pumpington, Do you Honestly believe that. You are telling me that at no point in time in your lifestyle as a PUA you ever had a phase where you didnt have atleast one of the issues? ....you really only got results and never ever even for once faced a dilemma ?....
You Absolutely can. Infact a healthy balance between the two is want is ideally warrented. However, I dont know of anyone who have slept around with LOTS of women and have successful excelled in creating a good academic/professional foundation AND can claim that they never had any emotional issues when it comes to women and dating...

- At Kasabi - you're right, PU alone cannot be and is not blamed for any issues incl. intimacy. However, the lack of knowledge or maturity in handling intimacy cud lead to leaving oneself or the other or may be even both partners scared in somewhere or the other..... Btw.. Ur post is deep , I had to read it more than once to truely understand your comments and learn.

You also explained the fallacy in the whole "I left her better...." concept pretty well. Its immature and irresponsible to go about acting in a way that we want w/o taking any responsibility for our actions.

now the question is where do you get that knowledge/maturity to handle intimacy properly