New to game, but learning quick. John Sinn wrote up reviews of different methods of seduction, and had very harsh criticism of Jeffries and SS. He stated that he met many of Jeffries SS students and that they knew next to nothing, and that use NLP does not pickup help at all.

I understand that Jeffries is something of a guru here, but so is Sinn. Wondering if these are just different camps sniping at each other, or if Sinn has a point. I've looked at RJs material, and I admit that I really do not get it, nor do I see where it is going.

Wondering if looking into his stuff is useful, or just mental masturbation.



--JJ

_________________
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake.
-- Tyler Durden

As a counselilng psychologist in training, I can tell you NLP is a joke within the Psychology community.

You can read more about it here: http://www.skepdic.com/neurolin.html

Seconded. It is a joke in general.

Uhm well I'll go sarge with you but can you explain how I could prove a negative? I mean, how could I prove that it doesn't work?

Your link excellent. Thanks. I too a big skeptic. That said, since learning and understanding MM, my game with woman, and people in general has improved ten fold, and I cannot ignore that. MM is far more than a few lines to a given target.

Just to take the other side of this argument, why is Ross Jeffries is considered one of the big three in the seduction community (I would rank Mystery, DeAngelo, and Jeffries as the tops). If Jeffries a joke, then why so many followers? That said, I would love to see an NLPer at work.



--JJ

_________________
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake.
-- Tyler Durden

I think you would appreciate how inaccurate such a challenge would be. Attraction and human interaction in general is very difficult to define.

If you get a girl it may be because:
-You speak with confidence
-You DHV'ed verbally
-She is easy
-Your looks remind her of an excellent ex-lover or you are just her type
-Probably some more stuff I forgot

So you would have to prevent all these things from having an impact on the result For example, you have to make sure that there is no real attraction during the opener because if so, you are probably her type. Also, you can't say anything to DHV and you can't be above-average in the confidence department either.

Other than that, it is not clear what you mean by "hook". I can "hook" any girl into having a fun conversation also without NLP. The question is whether you manage to get their bits wet by using NLP and I don't think you can (of course you can get their bits wet while using NLP, but then it's more likely something in the way you talk or carry yourself and you could've said any other thing also that was remotely acceptable).

So, if you want to work with these limitations and take all these matters into account then I will accept your challenge.

Ok. One more thing, you also have to approach a few girls while using your "normal" character and just be nice and friendly, and I want to see a totally different (and non-sexual) reaction from them. Because I have no idea what you look like (only if you are very ugly can we ignore this )

Furthermore, I want you to be able to overcome a cockblock with a girl you considered to have hooked with NLP (not with all of them, that would be unfair. Just like half or something). And one expansion on the "she's not easy" criterion: all approaches must be made towards girls who are fuckable without reasonable doubt.

If we can all agree on that then yes, I will objectively report my findings and so forth.

Edit: You can use any opener you want but if you want to limit yourself to that one that is fine. It's the conversation that follows that matters and which must adhere to certain limitations (like you can only talk about her or you and her together in certain situations etc. Ofc some tiny exceptions can be made towards saying your name and your job if she asks you(you have to lie about that so you don't DHV))

Also the definition of "hooked" must include some physical compliance because what you are saying about eating out of your hand etc is very hard to check for an observer. You should be able to say "let's get out of here" and she must reply positively (this is what defines a succesful pickup attempt imo, the rest is just filler).

By the way I am very curious to see this go down. I've never seen this work before so if you can make it work then maybe the cake isn't a lie after all...

All right. Looking forward to it ^^

Edit: You can't say you're unemployed, that could be an attraction trigger and is definitely not "neutral behaviour" so it affects things. You'd need to say you have whatever kind of average job you can think of.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But that article acts as though NLP is trying to be an alternate form of psychotherapy. NLP is not about that. It's about motivation, focus, and perception. You're not going to solve serious debilitating traumas or psychological issues with NLP. But I think it could help you feel confident or motivated, and change some of the ways you think. Help you get past bad memories, and certain negative self views. Even the article admits the possibility that individuals could be helped by NLP. It just criticized the creators/supporters of it and then compared it to other forms of psychology to disprove it.

Also it seem like whoever wrote that article, did not have a good grasp of what NLP was really all about. It seem like it was written from a lot of second hand knowledge of NLP and randomly obtained quotes. It comes off like a freshman English research paper. The author doesn't even sign his name, or state his credentials. And in the conclusion he even acknowledges the possibility that NLP is effective, but his issue is that it's value can't be verified and that the creators charge a significant amount for it. But couldn't the same be said for psychology? How can you really verify the effectiveness of any techniques, when all human minds are different and ultimately complex?

hey bro I would suggest to try everything to you find what works for you.

For me, question is not can NLP used in stand alone from everything else. I believe that nothing can be done in isolation. The question is, can NLP be used as a tool to persuade woman, or for that matter anyone. For the record, I do not know. As an atheist, while I seek truth, I require proof to back it up.

Truth be told, if someone would have told me about even Mystery Method as a means of picking up females even seven months ago, I would have proclaimed loudly bull shit. However, there is no question that is works, and it logical, based upon Evolution Theory.

I am willing to keep an open mind about NLP. Can someone please give me resources, other than perhaps Ross Jeffries (or specific Jeffries materials to watch)? I really do not see where his stuff is going to or for that matter leading.




--JJ

BTW: Am considering writing my own personal testimonial about Mystery Method. Absolutely amazing. I have gone to total AFC to fair PUA in a very short time, and MM mixed in with bits of RSD has really changed my life. Love this stuff on both practical and theoretical levels.

I am in my 40s, and now going with two gals in their 20s. One graduated top university in Tokyo. Other an amateur boxer. Both great gals. IMO: Mystery is a modern day Freud.

_________________
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake.
-- Tyler Durden

If you look at the seduction community side of NLP yes its a joke, however, its academic side is more reputable.

NLP deals with models. And the nlp models used by Ross Jeffries are overused does not really reflect the true concept of neuro linguistic programming. Its in the name nlp deals with cognitive shortcuts to portray human characteristics and values using the skillful synergistic use of body and verbal language.

It has PhDs researching this subject backed up with subtantial reasoning. Im sure they are easy to comeby when you google it.

Lets just say the academic side of NLP is basic science seeking knowledge of the truth embedded within the neurolingistic programming of human intercommunication.

Ross Jeffries on the otherhand is the guy who tries to make money out of it by mersmerizing people with a word that most people dont really get. However, his techniques do work if used in combination with someone who has some social skills. A good example of good NLP users are comedians, they have honed their skills to the point that making a particular face in conjucntion with the correct body language and vocal modification they could make an otherwise corny joke funny.

I dont technically incorporate nlp into my routines but any good pick up artist has an indirect but fundamental skill in nlp with or without recornizing it.

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