You hear about people encouraging you to say "good girl" "bad girl"
Not giving warmth as punishment, not caring as much as a subtle punishment.

HB8: "don't be mad but I can't make it on blah blah blah"
Lovedrop: "huh? what? we were going out on blah blah blah? nah don't worry about it I'm going out with my friends" -> and then he goes out with his friends and picks up another girl, doesn't give a shit lol

or when girls do it to us

you piss her off so the girls will go cold and say "nothing" when you ask them what's wrong

What are some classical conditioning/operant conditioning you should use? Dog training?

If I were you I would stay away from conditioning altogether, that way of thinking is a slippery slope my friend.

How about instead of trying to figure out new and creative ways of manipulating women to do your bidding you concentrate on ways you can improve yourself to be more attractive to women.

For example, do you think that this domineering aspect of your personality is attractive to women? Do you think that a woman would look at this post of yours and think, wow he's a real catch why can't more men be like him?

There is no point in learning to pick up women if you can't feel good about you as a person at the end of the day. The number one reason you got into this was because you wanted to be fundamentally happier, you figured that shagging lots of hot girls will make you fundamentally happier.

Well I will save you the trouble now and tell you that it wont make you happy unless you can look yourself in the mirror at the end of the day and be proud of yourself and your accomplishments as a human being.

Just look at Mystery, his profession, his seduction style is all revolved around deception and he is successful in that deception but he is also fucking miserable. Is that what you want for yourself?



Of course, the dark side does have some benefits...

_________________
"Stay hungry, stay healthy, be a gentleman, believe strongly in yourself and go beyond limitations.” - Arnold Schwarzenegger

I agree with most of what you have said. But I believe that negative conditioning has a place within relationships, but only to establish one's boundaries. Also positive reinforcement can be used to foster good habits in a relationship.

Relationships are weird, in that, it's almost like at the beginning you are setting up a ton of unspoken rules and habits which will later define the relationship. If at the beginning of a relationship you do not stand up for yourself and make clear boundaries and rules about appropriate behavior, it is almost impossible to set them later. Now this is all done on a sub textual level, usually rules are set on reactions to situations, or based on your habits toward her, rather than actual verbal debates. Like for instance a woman will push you to test how much she can get away with, and if you don't stand up for yourself she will push more; or if you start paying for everything in the beginning, she will become accustomed to it and expect it from then on.

In these cases, standing up for your boundaries and creating a healthy ongoing dynamic in the relationship, is very similar to negative conditioning and positive reinforcement. In the sense that a woman is trying to figure out what you will put up with and what you like, so by either rewarding good behavior or punishing bad, she is learning what you will or won't allow out of a partner. And she will either accept it and adapt her behavior in the relationship to conform, or she will decide to reject it and leave.

I know this seems very formulaic, but a lot of guys out there have very poor boundary systems and don't stand up for themselves like they should, then they get horribly mistreated which affects their self-esteem and hurts their game even more. So learning to say when you disapprove of bad behavior is a prerequisite for any guy looking to date seriously.

The issue with negative conditioning is that it doesn't provide for a corrective response, it only punishes, or illicit a negative response to behavior you want to extinguish. This is why often this form of punishment dolled out by parents does not work well with children.

Actually I totally agree, it is absolutely essential to establish strong boundaries at the beginning of the relationship it sets a precedent for the relationship to follow and once that precedent is set it is near impossible to change at a later date.

I think a lot of relationships fail because of this reason. A guy might meet a girl when he is young and lacking in confidence and then later down the track he has found money and success and his wife struggles to deal with his new found confidence because when they first got together he was a lot easier to manage.

And vice versa...

Once we are used to a certain behaviour in someone most of the time we hate to see that behaviour change especially when their is a perceived loss of power within that relationship.

I remember when I first got into game and I went from being a shy introverted guy to a very confident extraverted guy and some of my friends didn't know how to handle the new me, some of them got jealous and would constantly try and bring me down a notch but my best friends slowly but surely adjusted to the new me and embraced it all the same, especially when my success with women permeated into their lives as well and helped them become happier, better adjusted people.

I consider conditioning to be very different to this though. The whole idea of trying to train women like they are sub-intelligent creatures is kind of offensive to me.

Women are a lot more complicated than dogs and trying to use the same kind of pyschology we use on intellectually inferior humans on other human beings is a recipe for disaster in my opinion.

That and it's kind of sick and perverse.

_________________
"Stay hungry, stay healthy, be a gentleman, believe strongly in yourself and go beyond limitations.” - Arnold Schwarzenegger

If I were you I would stay away from conditioning altogether, that way of thinking is a slippery slope my friend.

why would you say its slippery slope?

Because most people do not know how to use operant conditioning properly, nor do they understand the deleterious effects it can lead to. As a counseling psychologist I'd only use it where upon it would be of benefit to somebody with an unhealthy addiction, and even still such forms of 'manipulation' would be done transparently, with the client's full knowledge and active participation. PUAs engaging in psychological techniques they know very little about is dangerous for both themselves and, in the worst of circumstances are unquestionably coercive.

Dude your scaring me a little I've been using classic conditioning on my girlfriend for 3 months now and she is obsessed with me! It can be quite depressing sometimes, she even says if i left her she would kill herself, I'm not going to lie I know fuck all about game really, I read the mystery method and have been hurt in the past so i wanted to make sure it didn't happen again. What would you advise I do I actaully do love my girlfriend!

Treating her like a human being, for one, not a dog as many of the so-called PUAs on this board would have you believe you should do. If you're trying to condition your girlfriend to be a certain way there will always be a lack of egalitarianism in the relationship, and this is one of the major holes in PUA 'theory' - it quite explicitly posits the idea that the man should always be in control - healthy, real world relationships are not setup to be this way; unhealthy, maladaptive ones, on the other hand, are intended to conform to this idea. Look, we all implicitly engage in conditioning with one and other in some form, but to actively use such methods to get what you want out of a relationship can lend way to major dependency issues, thereby limiting the prospect of having a healthy mutually respectful relationship.

Quite honestly, a lot of the PUA methods being espoused are misinterpretations and/or misapplications of theories put forth by both evolutionary theorists and psychologists. A lot of what they teach is harmless, and at best good entertainment, however some of the techniques such as Ross Jeffries' bastardization of NLP used to essentially coerce women are hugely misleading. Anything that essentially promises a quick fix (e.g. 5, or 10 steps to something) you should be weary of. At the end of the day, what's going to ensure your success with women is your comfort level with both yourself, and being around them (which go hand-in-hand), and your ability to not allow rejection to overcome you and impede you of pursuing other opportunities. Some insights such as not being needy/readily accessible are generally good, but you needn't read a PUA manual to know this.

papichulo818 Thank you very much, very kind of you to give me such a detailed answer helped with alot of underlying issues! Defo bookmarking this post!

NP. At the end of the day, you need to learn how to trust your intuition as you know the relationship better than anyone on here ever could. Naturally since emotions involved (and ours aren't), your judgment may at times feel impaired; sometimes, I find, stepping back and NOT reacting is the best thing to do until things settle and I can think more clearly having some semblance of objectivity (nobody could ever remain truly objective towards the relationships they're involved in, including mental health professionals).

Lastly, be skeptical of everything you read on this board, and also that extends particularly towards anything PUA-related.

Joey you can't condition someone to love you, if your girlfriend loves you it is because of you, not the conditioning.

To me it sounds like you might have some trust issues, you are afraid of letting her get to know the real you because you are afraid that she will hurt you, so you are using classical conditioning as a buffer against that and to give you a feeling of control.

The reason I say it is a slippery slope is because you are being ingenuine by taking this approach to your relationship and this wont give you a lot of security and confidence in this relationship in the long-term.

If it was just a short-term thing then with several different women, it wouldn't be such a big deal; I would be telling you to work on 'compliance' instead of 'conditioning'.

However since you really like this girl and it seems like you are battling your own feelings with it, if you want it to work then you will need to trust her enough to let your guard down a little. I guarantee you will feel less conflicted if you do.

_________________
"Stay hungry, stay healthy, be a gentleman, believe strongly in yourself and go beyond limitations.” - Arnold Schwarzenegger

Well obviously, I would assume the appropriate amount of communication would be necessary in a relationship, which would provide the corrective response upon making up. When I discuss this issue with my cousin, I describe it as a slap and a kiss (figuratively of course). It's a variation of the push-pull used specifically to correct inappropriate behavior. Basically making a dramatic point about an issue to allow her to see how serious you are about the issue, then making up later while still not conceding the point. Usually its just a heated argument followed by making up in a loving way. In this instance, you go to two extremes of your personality, you become overly angered and afterward overly loving, exaggerating both sides respectively. If you look at it, its also an example of both negative conditioning and positive reinforcement combined. But it's one that most couples naturally do anyway. It's not really manipulative, because you are being upfront with what you have a problem with and what you want to change. You are not trying to trick her. You are being straightforward with her and expecting change.

Sometimes you may have to make a dramatic point, specifically to nip bad behavior in the bud, before it grows into a real issue in the relationship. Now obviously, this isn't for menial arguments or small things, but real issues that can be potentially relationship ending if not addressed early. Also this may not be for everyone, but it's something to keep in mind. Like I said originally, this is only really for establishing boundaries, and when you feel like your boundaries have been violated.

I am really wondering what the original poster meant when he said conditioning. I took it one way, and it seems like you and other posters took it a different. I agree the word "dog training" troubled me when I read it. But it seemed to me based upon the context that he was just doing like basic freeze outs and stuff like that. He obviously isn't doing anything degrading because he seems to love and care about her. It seems to me like he was just responding to negative behavior with coldness.

But I would really like to hear from the original poster, if he could elaborate as to what "conditioning" he has been doing.

Cutting out all the flame war text above and answering the question - no acting like a girl will usually get you sh!t
a girl talking to a guy with no girlfriend - the guy obviously has something to lose
the guy talking to a girl with 20 other guys chasing her - the guy obviously has something to lose.
The difference is supply and demand, if you ignore the girl she'll forget about you in 20 seconds after another guy texts her; most of the time if you ignore her all you'll think about is her and get oneitis.
Also by the time you get her "trained" she's either your girlfriend or gone, and it'll be a waste of time

_________________
To game at your best you have to be willing to do your worst.