Pick up is just a silly little game. This isn't a life or death decision. You're not curing cancer nor are you engineering the next space shuttle. So if you're going to do it, you might as do it the way you want to do it. If you want to go for ONS's, go for it. If you want to go for numbers, then go for that. Just know this:

In any given night club on any given night, and in any given city around the World, there are many average people who pick each other up for one night stands. In those same spots, people are also exchanging numbers and meeting up afterwards to share time with each other. Ask anybody who's ever been associated with the night club business. Ask anybody who's ever picked up more than a handful of girls. If you're still unsure, go ahead and stand outside a club for a whole night with 2 counters and count up the people who go in the club alone or in same-sex groups vs. people who exit the club in mixed-sex groups or as couples. The reality of pick up is obvious. Otherwise, why would anybody even be here?

"Dissonance Reduction" is "Self Limiting Belief's" best friend. If you've read a few threads in this forum, you've seen plenty excuses ---- "It's only for the rich and the famous." "It's only for the good looking people." "It's only for white, black, or green people." "It's only for tall people." "It's only for assholes." When our personal goals do not match the habitual patterns required to achieve those goals, we tend to fill in the gaps with plausible excuses. Regardless of how plausible our inventions may be, the flowchart of excuse making remains the same. 1. Goals/dreams. 2. Limiting Self Belief. 3. Realization of Goals vs. habits mismatch. 4. Excuses.

^This is not to be confused with somebody who himself makes a clear decision to NOT seek out ONS' due to personal reasons or NOT seek out numbers due to personal reasons. Personally, I don't understand why a man would go only for one thing over another other than for logistical reasons but fine, this is what we do. So if you've chosen one thing over another, let's get to the next part:

Going for the ONS in order to get numbers:

You already know the number one complaint over numbers in this forum. And you've probably already read all the advice regarding 'bad/flakey' numbers; The general consensus is true: The problem = lack of connection during initial interaction. Solution = Improve connection during initial interaction. So how do we do this? By going for the ONS.

You've seen Investment bank commercials that end with, "Past performance does not guarantee future results." Yet, during the commercial, all they do is demonstrate past performance. There are no guarantees but a demonstration of growth is a powerful emotional sell for future performance. It does not matter how much money a bank earns in one year if they do not make MORE money the following year; it's the demonstration of growth that seals the deal.

When you ask a girl for a number, you are functionally asking a girl to invest her time into a relationship with you (regardless whether it's for one day or 100 years) for a benefit. If you cannot demonstrate 'growth', there is no confidence or any desire to meet up again. They won't put it into to words but this is what happens = "You want to meet up again so that my emotional level can remain the same as it did during my entire interaction with you just now? If there is no MORE from what we had today, why bother?"

You've seen ONS threads in this forum. Sure, there are variations but what they all have in common is that in one night, you are going from strangers to fuck partners; this is "growth". Get your number during the phase of an actual ONS attempt and your number is associated with, "THERE IS MORE of WHAT JUST HAPPENED in the FUTURE." And regardless of your stance on ONS's, sometimes it's nearly unavoidable when you're actually going for a solid number.

Getting the number to improve ONS opportunities:

There are plenty of guys in this thread who think digits are useless. If you don't feel like calling people up and setting up dates, fine. But there is a purpose for getting the number beyond actually dialing up. Regardless of how promiscuous or 'sexually liberated' some girls portray themselves to be, nobody wants to be disrespected. Some want multiple partners due to choice but no girl wants to feel that they are having sex with multiple partners because their viewed as the village whore that nobody is willing to date. The act of 'asking for the number' tells them that you view them with respect. This act shows them that she's worthy to be more than just a ONS and if it doesn't work out to be a more than that, its' due to circumstances other than a judgement of character that you've sized up from one night of chatting. If she doesn't give you her digits, that's fine. She might not be in a situation that allows for 'dating'. Stick around and continue pushing for the ONS, your odds just went up.

^ Bringing it to the Top.

My takeaway from the post is :

(1) Without connection you wouldn't be seeing her again.
(2) Demonstrate growth in a relationship - w/o which there is nothing much for her to comeback to

(3) Dont make her feel that you think of her less just because she and you slept together on the night of meeting

(4) ONS or sleeping together after a few dates is the same

Good post.

It is as if there is some kind of score people are after, like numberclose 1p, kissclose 2p etc... It doesnt mean anything really.

What you really wanna do when you sarge is to make sure she wanna meet you again.

If you can do that, she will hand you the number and you have a chance for the ONS and more.

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

That may not be entirely true. What if you are visiting a city or she is? What if she does not want anything more than just a ONS? -we all know from experience that this is true

What I get from Kasabi's post is even if she wants a ONS she doesn't want to thought of as a 'village whore' (Kasabi's words ) So you take the number or demonstrate to her that you dont think that she is no better than just a lay and you don't think less of her just because she is sexually liberated.

What do you think?

Kasabi, has put down a note of key thoughts behind pretty much everything.

BUT there are a few things that I would love to add:

Like Marc said - if she isn't down to a ONS - there's no shame in it actually. The problem is that a lot of guys are trying to enforce this upon a girl too much without even trying to figure out why she doesn't want it.. which is the 'Connection' part that Kasabi talked about.

I don't necessarily agree that you should or need, for that matter, go for the ONS before getting a solid number close. I've had tons of solid number closes, without even having the ONS before or after the N-close.

The fact of the entire matter isn't:
- Wether you should go for ONS first or second.
- Wether you should do this or that.

It's only - to stop using excuses for YOUR lack of effort. Whoever stated that you shouldn't put time/energy in seduction is a moron. To prove intent, you need time.
Simple as that.

≠ LD

_________________
Founder & coach at Dance 2 Seduce -- contact me for more information.

FREE coaching advice on Fridays from 22PM to 23PM at the MPUA chatroom.

Yes, you are right of course.

I meant meet again as in meet in person for some awesome activities like sex. If you get there the same night it is all good. I was thinking more about the PUAs who push her to give him a number (fake or not) and then run off happily thinking that they have won. When they could just have spent some more time in the set and made sure she would wanna meet again.

_________________
I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

Just a couple more thoughts to what others have already added:

Something to consider:

Treat sluts like princesses.
Treat princesses like sluts.

. . . and there is a little bit of both in all girls.

Regarding time investment:

The commercial guys with their silly 48 second pick up marketing hooks aren't doing young kids any favors. What's the message here?

1. I am king.
2. Fast = good.
3. Get the pick up shit over with as fast as possible and get to the number, suck face, or the urinal BJ as quickly as possible.

It's OK to spend time with another human being . . .

Yes, people today rush through things. There may be something more interesting going on somewhere else, someone may have posted something on facebook, someone may have sent you a textmessage.

We are so bombarded with options that no matter what we do we feel like we are missing out on something else, something we dont even know about yet. We are so busy looking for something better that we done realize that it may be what we have right in front of us.

_________________
I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

That's not my point either . . . but I'm willing to bet that the process for getting that number was very similar to the process for when you go for an ONS. The point is that there seems to be a popular notion around here that you go for one thing or the other when in reality, 'connecting' is the key.
Agreed.

Identifying problems and then throwing your hands in the air = excuses.

Identifying problems and the seeking a solution = progress.

You might have already guessed why I created this thread. A newbie in his thread recently reported (advised) he doesn't go for ONS's because it's for the 'rich and the famous'. Then he offered several more excuses for his avoidance of the ONS.
While I don't remember the actual excuses he presented, most of the excuses were 'emotional' in nature . . . "she might be in a bad mood, she might be off emotionally, etc . . . " This is dissonance reductive thinking and it's 100% wrong.

^Emotional reasons for not wanting to fuck is the domain of tired housewives and girlfriends. For them, physical/logistical environments are usually all set but after being with one guy for a while, they are dependent upon emotional triggers that spring from the dynamics of the relationship. One little thing can trigger the "I'm just not in the mood." - OK honey.

In a night club setting, the reasons for not wanting to fuck usually comes down to physical/logistical issues. She feels gassy, has the runs, her sister is in town, she has a period, she didn't have time to trim her pussy, her nosy friends are all around, the bartender knows her, etc . . . . If she is not 'emotionally feeling it', YOU WILL NOT be flirting with her in the first place. Instead, she'd be a dopey drag and hopefully, you would have F'd off and hit on another girl long ago. If you are standing in front of her and flirting with one another and progressing the interaction, believe me, there are no emotional barriers to entry here. . . Think logistics. Think sexual certainties. Think trust.

This is the Single most thing that made me successful (very by my standards) when I initially started off at Bars and Clubs. I Genuienly wanted to know these girls, learn about them.

Then with success I got overconfident and experienced flakes for a few months, became a numbers game.

After thinking through, I realised this and went back to creating the connection.
This would help a lot of my married friends

ONS vs NUMBER


It's all a matter of what type of seduction you want.

ONS> You are basing your seduction on pure energy. attraction and physicality ( going with the moment)

NUMBERS> You're seducing the mind. A little more difficult as the physical energy and heat of the moment has passed. (But can be just as fun if not more)


Two different seductions, two different games. Double the fun.

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Seduce their mind and the rest will follow.

Why does it have to be a "vs"?
A type of seduction? Wait . . . what?!
Let's see:

I see a definition in here, yes! But I don't see any TYPE of it. Why does seduction have to be a type. You do it or not, simple as that.
Here I stopped reading. . .

≠ LD

_________________
Founder & coach at Dance 2 Seduce -- contact me for more information.

FREE coaching advice on Fridays from 22PM to 23PM at the MPUA chatroom.

Depends on
1. How much you wanna have sex
2. How far you have already gone
3. How far you could go
4. Whether you want a relationship

Build build build.

A great book called Flow by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi mentions that " our purpose in life is to have goals, and our goals are to have purpose." I think this produces the 'cycle of life" effect and it just a macro sense of what your doing in picking up a chick.

Whether it be a number, or a ONS, you should be moving forward. Why? That's up to you find out. But if your in the club in the first place, than you've already made a decision that you want women which is in turn your "goal". That goal should have a "purpose" which will produce another "goal"... and the cycle goes on.

I hope that relates,

Sam

I don't know. Sometimes, a number turns into sex, sometimes a friend with benefit or one night stand. Maybe a gf but, other times, they flake or meet someone else. Sometimes, a one night stand happens, and you never see the girl again or you do. It is weird. I am not sure guys.