My story begins over three years ago, but please bear with me. I was 25 and about to return to college for the first time in 6 years. Being a shy guy (read:AFC)my whole life, and (almost) always stuck in the friend zone, I decided to start doing homework and stumbled on cocky funny, and AA techniques.

The first day I arrived I met the girl. 18 years old, a cute skinny redhead with glasses. After the mandatory floor meeting before classes (yes I chose to dorm!) where they have everyone introduce themselves, I walked up to the cutest girl in my major and said "Hey, do you know where we're supposed to be tomorrow?" from which she said "Um, not sure, but I have the paper up in my room." And ever since, we've been friends. When I met her, she had a boyfriend (long distance, from high school). So no real pressure. But about 3 weeks in, they broke up, I tried to get closer, but didn't get a good vibe. A couple weeks later, she got a fb, and didn't date anyone. There were a couple times where there was some sexual tension, even one story I just have to tell. It was me, her, her roomate/best friend, and another guy friend of mine. We were drinking in my room when I said something cocky to her to which effect she said "Kiss my ass!" "Whip it out!" "Fine!" Then she bent over slightly and pulled her jeans and underwear down about halfway. Well, I'm not stupid but she ended up going to her fb.

Next semester rolled around, and I thought things were going well but then she started dating Adam - outer circle friend of mine that had been trying off and on for 7 months to get with her. I slept with her roomate, who ended up screwed me over, and SHE took MY side! This led to us becoming fast friends, despite her relationship. She helped me win over another friend of hers who went on to be my girlfriend of 2 years. After school ended, I got deployed, and we pretty much lost touch for over a year.

When I come back, I get an apartment with my girlfriend in the same town. We start to reconnect. She was single again. After a short time, the relationship went sour and I broke up with my girlfriend. The girl starts staying later at my weekly parties. I used a kino trick I learned earlier about if you're with a girl who smokes pot, offer to exhale directly into her mouth - making sure to steal a light kiss I tried this on her one night and she went for it every time. And the end of the night, I tried to set up for a kiss but she pulled back, kind of laughed and said "you smell like weed". Well shortly after that, the other two left on us without saying anything, and then she left saying she had to go look for them, and it's late (it was 4am). Two more "parties" later, she shows up at about 1am by herself. About 3am, everyone has left but her, and my friend who was visiting from out of town and staying the night. He fell asleep, and she mentioned something about wanting to leave because she was hungry. I offered to make her some cheese sticks and she got all excited and decided to stay. We hung out drinking bullshitting and playing video games til around 5am, when I walked her back to her dorm. She invited me in, offered me a bottle of a water and we were chatting, both pretty drunk and tired at this point. I said something to the effect of "We're both good platonic friends aren't we?" "Yeah." but I didn't know what to say or do so I left.

That party was the 3rd, the last time I saw her. That's when I turned to the internet and found PUA. From here, I will post text messages.

DEC6
Me (5:22pm): Hey how are you
Her (5:48pm): Just got back from [nearby town] lol
Me (5:48pm): Oh cool haha jw have you been feeling sick lately?
Me (5:49pm): Cause I think I got something not sure what though :/
Her (5:54pm): Umm... Not really. Whats wrong?
Me (5:55pm): Tired, stomach kinda hurts almost threw up when I woke up today
Me (5:56pm): Stupid party haha
Her (6:11pm): That's not good i'm sorry!
Me (6:18) Thanks. It's more annoying than anything I was gonna see if you wanted to hang out tonight but im not good for much right now
Her (6:25) Lol i have the all greek push then hall council
Me (7:03) Yeah I assume you're unavailable til at least 9 most nights anyways
Me (7:05) I want to say someone was telling me about the push last Saturday actually *i knew it was her*
Her (7:06) Yeah it's unfortunately the story of my life
Her (7:06) Lol the rush party was prolly me
Me (7:07) Probably seemed like it was just me and you hanging out for the last few hours shots make things fuzzy haha
Her (7:08) Lol this is true
Me (7:27) Well you can still come over tonight if you want to just chill. I'm not staying up all night doing though haha
Her (7:27) Haha it's nbd I gotta do tons of homework
Me (7:30) You college students and your homework maybe another time
Her (7:30) Definitely
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we talk about doing karaoke and singing
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Me (7:41) Or you can just stick to rock band we have some songs to gold star / practice so we can go viral haha
Her (7:48) Awesome lets do it!
Me (7:49) Sweet! You gotta let me know when you have a free night not many left before semester ends
Her (7:51) Yeah thats true, i'll let you know
Me (7:52) Can't wait

We had a casual conversation the next day mostly about my affliction (remember, nursing major?) and how she had something similar, blah blah

Friday, DEC9
Me: (8:30pm) Yo what you up to tonight
Me: (11:08) Besides ignoring me bitch!
Her: (11:13) Sorry I was asleep lol i'm at tg (greek life)
Me: (11:15) That's cool... im in adams room
Her: (11:16) Lol i'm at tg with my sisters
Me: (11:20) Ah good times lol... you sdtill gotta introduce me you know!
Her: (11:21) To all of them?
Me: (11:22) every single one unless you're gonna get jealous
Her: (Lol no but there's a lot of them haha
..
I'm a little drunk at this point.
..
Me: (12:10) What you doing after tg? I'm [blah blah blah]
Her: (12:10) I'm at pi rho now
Me: (12:11) And then?
Her: (12:12) Idk
Me: (12:14) Well I gotta go to [the bar-my landlord is the bartender] but I could be talked into gjs just wanted to go out tonight
Me: (12:15) Especially if you help wing for me, Adams a terrible wingman haha he keeps going after the same girls as me
Her: (12:15) Idk i'm not having a good day i kinda just wanna go to bed
Her: (12:16_ hes dumb..
Me: (12:16) I'm trying to turn my day around. I got stood up today :/
Her: (12:17) I'm sorry! my car [blah blah] then I kinda got stood up.
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. I mention something about adam hitting on the girl who stood me up
Her: (12:28) Lol kick his ass
Me: I should have before when he tried to sleep with [my ex]
Her: Lol some party
Her: Do it now. Paybacks a bitch
Me: Nah I like to fight fire with fire
Her: Yeah?
Me: Cept afaik he's only got one good ex
Her: Lol tell him to work on that
Me: what getting more exs?
Her: Getting better exs
Me: Well by good I mean one that put with him more than a month
Me: Which is half the reason I don't steal girls from him
Her: hahaha yeah I am too tolerant haha
Me: You're really something else you know that?
Her: yeah..
Me: Sorry having an emo day. It's pretty rare I get stood up haha
Her: (12:59)lol i'm sorry
Me: (1:09) Okay i'm heading back to the apartment in a few minutes. Let's meet up for a drink
Her: I'm back in my room
Me: I didn't specify where
Her: Sorry [me] I'm just in a bad mood and wanna sleep
Me: Fair enough. But you owe me a lunch if I remember right. Tomorrow will work for me
Her: I owe you a lunch?
Me: Yeah we were supposed to have lunch a couple weeks ago haha (I cancelled)
Her: lol oh
Me: (ten minutes later) So...
Me: Goodnight, [her].
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Saturday, DEC10
Me (10:25pm): Hey [my ex] is here make sure you wish her a happy birthday!
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DEC12
Me (11:02am): Hey [her] how's finals going? are you ok?
Her (11:17am): No they fucking suck i just failed one.
Me (11:22): Oh... im really sorry.
Me (11:23): And here I though youd just been brushing me off
Her (11:54): No just in a bad mood for the last 4 days straight
Me (12:14) Is there any way I can cheer you up?
Her: Not really i just wanna go home lol
Me: When are you leaving?
Her: Friday i think, or saturday
Me: What you have finals on friday too?
Her: No but i'm an ra so i gotta stay longer
Me: Oh yeah that kinda sucks at least you have ra friends to hang out with
Her: Yeah I guess so
Me: Well [roommate] at least right?
Her: yeah haha shes will be here haha
Me: Don't tell me she's your only friends haha
Her: no lol but she only talks to me sometimes
Me (couple minutes later) Anyways I gotta finish up some paperwork now then I guess i'm heading to admissions at alfred u (yep...) so you want to help me find it? Haha
Her: I have another final or I would!
Her: Wait wtf au?!?
Me: Yep...au. well whens your final?
Her: It's at 3 I'm studying til then I have to sit in the ra office to help ppl leave then I'm on duty
Me: Oh yuck! Yeah I can't wait that long. Well I tell you what I gotta do some laundry so if you give me your card ill come do it in main gate [her dorm]
Her: Lol you wanna do laundry in main gate?
Me: Cheaper than laundromat, closer than mckenzie [other dorm]
Her: Lol true
Me: Well gives me a reason to visit while you're on duty haha
Her: This is true. Your not technically allowed to but whatever
Me: Oh really? So it gives YOU an excuse to see ME huh? hahaha
Me: (5m later) Anyways gotta run good luck on your final! Put down your phone and study lol
Me: (7:36pm) How did your final go? Thanks anyway bout laundry but just gonna wait til I get home.
Her: They were shitty. Lol no problem
Me: Are you done with em
Her: For now. I have one more
Me: When is it? I'm trying to figure if/when I should have a last party
Her: It's thursday but I have this stupid work schedule
Me: by work I take you mean ra duties... hmm well its either tuesday or wednesday, then friday if there's enough ppl left then im outta here too
Her: Either way I can't get too fucked up lol
Me: That's fine that makes two of us haha
Her: Haha cool!
Me: Are you on call or something?
Her: I gotta wake up early both days
Me (7:52pm) Aw I guess that means no staying over til 5am? Haha im sorry that sucks
Me: (8:39pm) Okay well plan tomorrow. I can't believe how busy you are this semester
Her: Yeah I went crazy...
Me: (9:34pm) I can't believe I'm appying to the U!
Her: Yeah that's insane! What're you gonna do!?
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[blah blah blah]
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more casual conversation for the next hour or so


Whew. I can see why I debated writing that. To be honest, I've never really wanted to go after her until fairly recently. She's a little more grown up now, looks more attractive too. It's been two years since we first me. I'm also 30 lbs slimmer, and a lot more confident. Id taught myself to play drums pretty well, and also some piano and guitar though she's used to guitar players. She's always been my good female friend, and I've appreciated it. She's also used to college boys befriending her, and at some point later on "confessing their love" and she has complained about it. I think at one point I asked her "Don't you have any friends that DON'T confess their love to you and just want to have casual sex" to which she said "no, not really..." as she looked the other way... I've done that myself to other girls, and once it ended in a drunk pity lay, but it usually really hurts if not kills the friendship. I know how that affects a girl, its not good. Not to mention the obvious social calamity - we've both slept with and dated each other's friends, her ex is actually one of my better friends, and currently a great asset to my social life. I don't think she wants to just hook up, she's never been that type afaik, but I would definitely settle for that as 9/10 for me an F-close means the girl is hooked just don't let your first time be wasted, learned that the hard way...

Well, if you're still with me at this point then God bless you and please give me any thoughts/suggestions! Like I said she should be coming over tomorrow so anything would be appreciated, esp some kino with more sexual undertones (like the smoke trick - but that's really all I know and its situational). I've pretty much decided I have to try, but I want to do so in a way that won't ruin the friendship if it backfires. I want to approach it humorously, with a joke about casual sex or something, but I doubt she'll respond to it. I honestly like this girl, I have before, then I didn't, then even more now... but I can't help but feel I missed my chance.

I can't believe I read all that. In any case, she doesnt want to hook up with you mate. You blew your chance ages ago.. your best bet would be to get her completely shitfaced.. Every guy gets one chance per girl for the most part, she just doesnt seem very attracted to you at this point to be perfectly honest by the way she talks to you

I only read like 1/12th of that... and it seems like you're in the friend zone.

So I'm guessing i did myself a favor reading every fourth line?

If you don't know if she wants you, escalate until you know it's a yes or no. If it's a no, which is sounding likely, immediately move on.

I can't believe I wrote all that, either... overkill really. But thanks for the replies so far.

Thanks for reading the whole thing guru. I've had the shitfaced thing work for me before. On a girl I was in the friend zone with for over 6 years actually. A couple years in I got the "LJBF" but I always persisted after that when we would hang out, until one night she was shitfaced and I gave her a ride home. But the next day she regretted it and we have hardly spoken since. But that's probably the best advice if I want to just hook up with her. I know the best chance was long, long ago, and I would have never have taken the time to write that damn essay if I thought I had absolutely no chance.

I've also had "the talk" actually work as well, but I think I lucked out. My ex in the story had a boyfriend when we met, but after two months of hangout almost every day I told her "i want to be more than friends" and she said "if things were different maybe, but I have a boyfriend". But this turned out to be a test, because things escalated physically quickly after that, kissing her the next night and fclosing a few nights later when she broke up with that boyfriend.

Of course, 2 months is not 3 years. At least I know I stopped this trend by now, since she's the last real "platonic friend" i made.

I guess the real problem is getting the confidence to demand a straight answer. This is the type of girl that enjoys the attention she gets from "guys on the hook", so she's very flirtatious in general. She's also let other guys jump the ladder, but does not like hooking up drunk with new partners. So she gives off the "if you really want me then you've gotta try harder than that" vibe, not just to me. She was flirting with a mutual friend of ours she's known for the same amount of time, and he went though the same thing I am now but backed off for whatever reason.