I agree with this post, purely because of personal experience. My life was a wreck and trying to do PUA while fixing it was also a mess. I think a lot of guys on this web site need to take some time and just get to where they need to get to before picking this activity up. I also agree with the financial constraints caused by young age. All in all, some people may benefit from PUA young, but in my experience those were guys who were already doing or in the process of doing since high school. For guys fresh out of high school or in college just starting out with this, my experience tends to be that this stuff goes disastrous. And many of those guys don't even have their life together. So when JSmooth says get your life together, and come back and try later, I can absolutely agree. PUA will always be here, for as long as mankind exists you will be able to pick up women. I wouldn't panic and worry about the wrong thing yet.

I've been working on my "PUA" self since I was 16, I'm 18 now. Personally, outer-game isn't and was never really a big interest of mine.

I am inclined to say that inner-game has changed my high school and pre university years for the better.

It got me into bodybuilding and helped build several relationships I value to this day.

Perhaps when I'm legal age here (19) I'll incorperate some outer-game stuff.

In conclusion, I just wanted to state that I am still young and definitely not "mature" but carrying around a better sense of self and unshakable confidence is beneificial at any age.

So basically I'm agreeing with most people on this thread.

Just my 2 cents!

Change that age limit to 25 yrs Old ! In an economy like this a young lad needs more years to create a good academic and professional foundation. Ask yourself - Do you have atleast ONE good friend, Do you have good female friends, are you working hard in life to get a job any better than the ones at gas stations, behind the bar and etc.. Pick up to me is no different than having good social skills that attract people and eventually lead to mating with the opposite sex. The pioneers of this community failed to learn that naturally and hence picked this up much later in their lives.

And I'm sure, there probably are still parts of their personality/social skills that are under developed.

Chief, you are one of the youngest good PUAs in this forum - you started young - whst your take on the topic from your own experience

The oldest you are, the more wise you become from experience. Learning Pua can be seen as experience, so saying increase it to 25 isn't going to achieve much, our brains are constantly maturing, it's hard to say there's a specific age where we're the most complete

Sure why not, there is always that 40yr old creepy guy in every club who is trying to hit on 21 yrolds and still failing - Now he needs some PUA training for sure.

Giving a younger person the time to develop social skills naturally - by letting him play sports with friends, study groups with women, naturally hanging out with men and women would help him grow,develop and mature gradually which is much better.

There are responsibilities to becoming an attractive young man who women absolutely want to hang out with and love. There are soo many facets to human emotions that is difficult for a younger less matured individual to understand and handle. And hence, you have soo many seminars and coaches for even Corporate leaders and captains of huge organizations. If one only learns the techniques at a young age to only get laid and if techniques are ones only foundation to being a social person - then it doesn't make oneself an emotionally balanced individual.

On the same note, you could raise or lower the age - thats fine. And maturity comes with experience. But one needs to develop other parts of ones life and devoting too much time to becoming a PUA, learning the techniques, trying to deal with the emotions that come with it etc.. has the potential of creating an unhealthy diversion for anyone trying to succeed in school, college or at work...

For sure, you can go back to getting your graduation when you are 40 yrs old but life would not be the SAME had you created a good foundation academically and otherwise earlyon while in late teens althrough mid 20s.

Just speaking from a development and life cycle point of view: you have no idea who the fuck you are until you're over 25. From 18 to 25, your brain goes through it's second highest period of maturation (the first being from infancy to five years). You're figuring out who you are, what you believe, what you think about important issues, how you feel about the things that are happening around and to you.

I started pick-up when I was 24, and I still wasn't ready for it. I'm a bit of an immature fellow, I'm sad to admit. Pick-up skewed a lot of the way I saw the world for a long time, and it wasn't an angle I'm particularly keen on now that I'm older and a touch wiser. Five years has given me some perspective, and given the chance to do it over, I would honestly wait.

Figure out who you are. Figure out what you're capable of before leaning on crutches like pick-up. Remember that this art was developed as a cure to a disability (situational sterility), and until you know whether or not you have that particular disability, engrossing yourself in pick-up is medication you might not need, and might fuck you up more than it helps.

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Well Hobbit, that is the maturation process of the neuron on a cellular basis. However the brain constantly changes throughout life, that is how we learn so I guess the answer to the question is, our brains never stops developing. So even though individual neurons can have differentially myelinated axons the maturity of the brain itself would be number of cell-cell interactions or something.

Just being a geek.

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

@Marc: I've said a corresponding points in my first post earlier in this thread, just looking into pua to try and get an easy lay is a bad idea, I agree with you there. However if you have a higher motivator and interest level, I think it's entirely applicable.
This is no doubt, true. What happens though, if the teenager is not naturally going through this process. i.e he is more reserved and views doing things such as; conversing with his female peers as extremely uncomfortable, so he avoids it all together.

Many of my old school aquatinters are in this boat, as a result, they think approaching random women is entirely weird. A simple insurance from a site such as this one, that approaching women is good, should give them enough ambition to start. Which would help them, help themselves. No matter what age they are.

This does not mean that I think everything pua related is worth learning for them, I've evinced this in my previous post.

@hobbit
I wasn't referring to when our brains are fully developed, but more to our overall maturity, a 30 year olds brain can be fully developed, but that doesn't give them a get out of immaturity free card

Maybe i'm wrong, but I feel as though we really start to become mature whenever we truly want to, regardless of how developed are brain is.

k
This.

I'm currently 22 and, as some of you already know, I started studying pickup material when I was 14 back in 2003.

Some people already mentioned that there are many different schools of thought in pickup, implying that certain schools are more harmful to developing mindsets than others. Agreed.

Obviously, the whole "improve your whole life" approach taught in pickup is useful for everyone regardless of age. Other facets of pickup, though, aren't entirely all that beneficial to kids.

I started out with David Deangelo's material, learning to think in terms of evolutionary psychology, being all confident and shit, and trying to be cocky/funny...

I was a fucking dick.

Sure, I actually applied the material and got a girl to like me, hooked up with her (what "hooked up" means to a 14 year old, at least), and that got me addicted to pickup. After years of growing up with fucked up issues causing me to be absolutely desperate for female affection without having the skill to attain anything more than the LJBF, pickup was the answer to all my prayers.

I was still messed up, insecure, and socially fucking weird sometimes, though. Try teaching Cocky and Funny to an insecure, angst-ridden teen and see what you get.

I then moved onto Mystery Method (not to mention I studied pretty much every method I could get my hands on during this whole time). What. A. Shit storm. I think this was sometime in between 16 and 19 years old, but my memory of that timeline isn't that great. It was also a bit on-and-off because of a LTR.

After trying to practice MM for a while, I developed a very awkward reputation in high school and college. People started saying that everything that came out of my mouth sounded scripted. Fuck you, Mystery. Modeling your behavior was NOT a good idea. I did notice, however, that going to bars and clubs with a fake ID gave me slightly better results.

That's because I was fucking weird thanks to pickup. Weird people are quite appealing when you're drunk in a bar or club. In the end, though, I was still weird and missing out on other valuable, more genuine experiences like non-calculated dating as a teenager.

The difference between a 17 year old and someone older is that the older man will actually have a better idea of who the fuck he is and will apply material through his own identity; the younger boy will try to BE Mystery and will thus utterly fail.

Joining a Fraternity, as well as just living longer and experiencing more of life, helped a lot in becoming less weird and more of a chill guy. Still, joining the ranks of rAFCs and trying to become a PUA when I was so young MADE ME WEIRD. It took a lot of work to untangle that mess to become the awesome fucker I am today.

I still have issues that I have to deal with thanks to starting pickup so young. We all know that confidence is a good thing, but what no one ever told you is that it's annoying when you're visibly confident all the damn time. Yes, I actually sometimes annoy people with my confidence that I just can't seem to fucking turn off. I've been told that it's like I'm being confident for no reason, as if I should have nothing to be confident about. It's not even that I'm being cocky; it's just one of those things that normal people are just really not used to.

It's true that pickup has done me a lot more good than bad. I pretty much based my life on it thus far and I pretty much don't have a choice but to think that way; I got the most "good" out of what I could get with pickup. If you dedicate yourself to ANY discipline to this level, it will do you a lot more good than bad. However, there are a lot of other things that kids should be dedicating themselves to other than pickup.

With that said, pickup prepares you with a lot of skills that are very useful to become successful in life across many areas. As they teach us in America, "it's not about what you know, it's about who you know," and I've certainly been using the skills I've developed through pickup to get me further in life. When someone turns 18, it's time to really start getting ready for the adult life. You are legally allowed to vote at this age, which is one of the highest responsibilities anyone can have. 18 is when you need to stop screwing around and start taking some shit a little more seriously. 18 is when someone should be ready for pickup. By the way, the 21-age drinking law is absolutely ridiculous. If you can die for your country then you should be able to have all the fucking rights anyone else has.

Before 18, however, you're still a kid who doesn't know who the fuck you are. You may even be 20 and not know, as evidenced by J Slay when he said: While that does have some truth to it, any grounded 50 year old man would most certainly see the bullshit in that statement. Why I can see some of the bullshit in that statement while I'm only 22 is beyond me, but I know that there will be a point where I stop and say "this is who I am as a man" and be absolutely certain about it.

Before the age of 18, you have less responsibilities and you're a lot more impressionable. The fact of the matter is, there's a lot of garbage taught in pickup that shouldn't be taught to kids. For example, a lot of what's taught can be interpreted as misogynistic mindsets, whether the message was intentionally misogynistic or not. An older, more mature man can ignore the bullshit misogyny and take the lessons for what they're really worth while angst-ridden heartbroken teenagers will use this information to further justify their bitterness toward women, missing the entire point of pickup altogether (which is, of course, to bring men and women TOGETHER rather than driving them further apart).

Even I went through a misogynistic phase. The conditions for it were perfect: I got rejected a shit ton before I got into pickup, I was heartbroken and bitter, and the "women don't have power over you" messages taught in the community were VERY easy to misinterpret as "women suck and revenge is sweet."

Just take a look at this garbage I posted on a different pickup forum when I was like 15 or something: Still a little funny, but insanely disrespectful and utterly immature regardless. One can only imagine the kinds of mindsets I possessed to give a girl her first kiss after putting her in a fucking trash bin. If you think that kind of shit is awesome then fuck you and you need to stop secretly hating women on the inside lol

Another thing that you have to keep in mind is not just your own developmental phases, but the girls' as well. Women of different age groups behave and react just as differently as men of different age groups. You all may think that learning pickup earlier will help you learn it better and faster, but the truth is that it makes the learning process SLOW AS SHIT. Well, it was at least for me since I was usually pursuing girls my own age at any given time. As you get older, it's like you have to learn about girls all over and over again because you CANNOT assume that the same shit you did when you were 16 will work when you're 20. You're different from when you were 16 and she's different from she she was 16. This would be a moot point for guys like TVA_Oslo, but he's been hitting up clubs ever since he started so he's mostly just been dealing with club girls the whole time.

I may be the only mod on this site who is fully in support of making this place 18+ only, but I've got my reasons and the personal experience to back it up, ironic as that may be.

I understand both points of view on this.

For me personally, I'm 28 and only got into PUA a year ago, but I really wish I got into it earlier. There was so many opportunities I had in my teens and early 20's that could have been taken if I had PUA tools.

So overall when all is said and done, my vote is no, don't wait until you are 25, the younger you do it the better.

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It came to me in a drreeeaaammmm

Loved that reply chief, I'm really curious to know what it was like disowning your 'weirdness' as you say. And becoming the 'awesome fucker' you are today. What major steps helped. Was studying everything you could get your hands on your worst decision?

I disagree.

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I'ma be what I set out to be, without a doubt undoubtedly, and all those who look down on me I'm tearin down your balcony, no if ands or buts, don't try to ask him why or how can he

Personally, me being one of the youngest here, I am 16 years old, I like attempting PUA stuff. I enjoy being successful some of the time. I enjoy experiencing girls my age and older wanting me.
The thing is I don't read any PUA material studying all those books etc. The only book I read was the game because it is inspiring and I read some of the topics posted on this site. So I don't take it too seriously, I acknowledged that I am young for this, but wouldn't me starting PUA now just make me be at my goal at the age when YOU started? Why would I spend time learning in 10 years when I can start now and be awesome at it at the same time you older PUAs started. Even in sports you have kids starting to play football from the age of 3. People learn better at a younger age and as I'm writing this post I feel like I just wasted my time because this seems really quite obvious to me. Your reasons seemed somewhat legit and true but it's bs not to start under 21 if you have the opportunity to.

HeyWhatsUp

we all know the pros and cons

i totally agree with you..

all those problems or symptoms .. i had them all and im still suffering from it.

my career .. my emotional health.. everything suffered from it ..

guys who are 16 or 18 will just say it's bullshit or a bad idea to not game .. i can tell you straight on it's a very bad idea to game..your whole reality gets fucked... if you are 18 you still do not know shit - i've been tossed around by people who were much older then me..

night enviroment is just a bad and negative enviroment if you do not have the inner game to back it up...even if you have inner game it's still a unhealthy enviroment... loud music - it's late in the night.. people are smoking and drinking.

when i remember how i was before 18 or 19 .. i was shy not really social BUT i was a very good guy , never got angry or bad emotions, always had a very strong will and mind.. kin of natural and positive.. Nowadays im just smarter , more intuitive and experienced but im also more fucked up.. since i got into pua i got fucked up start using drugs and shit.. start drinking.. fucking multiple woman without enjoying it.. it went so far - if i got dumped i just did got another GF .. i had like triple one itis because of this lol...

many times i seriously was on the verge on being insane .. many times i really thought about walking into a mental hospital because i lost alot of meaning in life.. i barely recovered and escaped from those mental states, im amazed im still alive.

i got hurt many times by other people...especially woman and it will haunt me for the rest of my life - ingrained in my psychology.. but then again .. what is life without any bad moments ?

just hit on a college girl now and then... that's enough

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