Met a girl online in June. We hit it off well, nothing physical though. Both of us are recently out of marriages. I'm divorced, she's got custody and property stuff holding hers up. She initially told me she wasn't sure if she wanted a relationship and said she thought a friend could maybe one day turn into something, but didn't say much aside from that. It was the first time I had feelings for anyone since being married, so I got infatuated pretty quickly. I was in school, didn't want to be bothered with feelings while going through final exams at Univ...so I called her up and told her I was infatuated with her and wasn't going to be in contact with her. She told me she was flattered because I was such a great guy, and stated she was worried that would be the end of us hanging out. I told her I'd contact her in a month or so.

I emailed her, and immediately she planned an activity for us. She started calling me a lot, emailing, texting...and it was mostly her calling me. I was dating other girls, I closed one and dated another for a while. It gave me some confidence but I ran when she told me she was falling in love with me. I'm not a PUA by any means. As the girls I dated didn't amount to anything, I started getting more attached to the girl in question. Since the summer it has gotten to the point where she calls me a few times a week and we talk on the phone for an hour or so. She often plans stuff for us to do. Hiking, concerts, hockey games (nice to get free tickets from her parents!). A week doesn't go by without her talking to me every other day or so now, and we hang out every time she gets back from work. (she works out of town)

So I have a case of oneitits, I'm sure. The thing is, aside from stating I was infatuated early on, I haven't come out and said anything like "I'm in love with you" or anything like that. Last week I asked her out on Valentines, she said yes, and stated she had a great time. Last night she took me out for dinner and she said a few things (spread out over the course of the evening) during the course of conversation.
1) She's put a lot of thought into her past relationships, and she doesn't want to get into a relationship again where she doesn't have a solid friendship with the guy first.
2) She doesn't want to bring a guy into her troubles right now (divorce custody court stuff) and says she has a lot of anger about it and is worried she might take it out on a guy she was in a relationship with.
3) She hasn't put much effort into nurturing her friendships and wants to take time to do that right now.
4) She can easily see most guys are one, two, three, punch guys that are gone immediately if she won't sleep with them...and that's another reason she wants to have a friendship first.
5) She wants to be able to trust someone around her daughter (I know she trusts me around her daughter)

All in all, I'm just wondering if I have already screwed this up to the point of no return with being a friend. I haven't said anything directly so I don't know exactly where I stand, and up until the last few weeks (I've been on a dry spell with dating too which could be causing this) I haven't been too sure I want to go that route anyway. She has a kid, and her situation sucks...but having spent so much time with her as a friend...now it seems she has gotten under my skin. I do enjoy my time with her, we have a lot in common, and we're fairly like minded on many subjects. I know there are other women out there that I will find this with...but maybe I want to see where it goes with her...if she is willing. Otherwise this case of oneitits is going to get worse. Or I could meet someone else...it doesnt' work out...and I'm right back here again. Without me asking, it has come up in conversation that she isn't dating or seeing other guys. So...what do you guys think...am I already too deep into the friendship book to get to the other side? Or have I kept my mouth shut enough to start playing the game and close her? And lastly...if you think I can still close her...what would be my best game plan to do so at this point? I would want to consider this as a LTR if I closed...but on the same token...I would take getting laid over friendship bullshit any day of the week. Because as soon as I do meet someone else...I highly doubt I'm going to be talking with this girl on the phone for an hour every few nights and hanging out all the time.

To anyone who reads all this, and to those who respond...I appreciate your time.

Buddy im glad that i've managed to be the first to post on this question. I can totally relate to your situation as i am currently, finally dating a woman who i met through very similar circumstances. The only really difference is that she has two kids and i closed after around a month. Now the advice i'm giving you isn't full proof and ill never pretend im a PUA god but i notice a few similarities between your current situation and my present one.

Firstly what screams at me from your post is that you believe deep down that you are a good match for her and that despite all of your unsure questioning beliefs that you really dig her. Thats kl, embrace it, don't get too caught up in gaming her. You have obviously developed natural qualities that she is into and she is (From What I've Read) treading very carefully to make sure that you aint going to hurt her.

Secondly, yea her situation sucks but, everyone has baggage. You could find a 21year old chick with hundreds of the shit and a 40 year old with very little (Although thats very very unlikely )

The one thing i want to ask that i didn't really get from your piece was what do you want from her? You chatted a lot about what she is looking for in YOU but not what you are looking to get out of your situation? Are you wanting a little bit of fun or are you looking to win the game with this one?

Regards, Saint

_________________
Attraction is the insatiable desire to be irresistibly desired

First of all, I'm not sure she was talking about ME. She may have been talking about any guy...that she just wants to be friends first.

Well what I'm looking for is a long term relationship with someone I can start a family with at some point. That's a long term goal of mine. Who knows who it will be with, I've only known this girl for 9 months as friends. If I was to get into a LTR with her...I wouldn't be jumping into marriage that's for sure. I'd imagine things would remain the same as they are now for some time...with probably more of the current as well as the physical side of things. My concern is how to go from A to B here. I don't want to get thrown into the abyss of the friendship zone and maybe I need to make a move before it comes to that...if it already hasn't.

One other thing to mention, at Christmas she gave me a card that said "To a wonderful friend". So for all I know...I could be already in that zone and it's too late. On the other hand, maybe she's doing as you say and just treading lightly. She really does value what we have right now...so much that she goes out of her way to come see me (she lives in another town) once a week. She plans stuff for us to do in the future too. I'm not sure what to think.

I would definitely give a LTR with her a chance is all I'm saying...and I think I'm getting closer and closer to the point that I'd like to.

There is a window of opportunity to go from friendship to relationship, but because the window is small you gotta present yourself anew.

There's gotta be a side to you she hasn't seen before in order to get her to view you differently.

I have thought about that myself. I have thought about inviting her out in a group setting with more of my friends because that is where I'm most confident. Perhaps once she see's how my friends joke around and enjoy being around me, and she sees me a little more lively than normal. That's all I can think about in that regard, I'm open to suggestion obviously.

Ok i get you. Well i can honestly say that hand on heart that i do not believe in the friend zone. I simply dont think it exists. I have had two many friends become interested in me and become interested in too many friends to Personally believe it exists.

I think that this chick is testing you to a greater level than usual because of her moving on from another major relationship. The barriers and personal protection are up. The most important thing to note is that she evidently is interested in your company and what you have to offer.

Have you ever had a sexually driven conversation? Or has it ever come up in conversation?

Im sorry im trying to get a full picture as 9 months is a long time.

Regards, Saint

_________________
Attraction is the insatiable desire to be irresistibly desired

I wouldn't say we ever had a sexually driven conversation until maybe last week. I've tried to joke around more with her and bug her a little lately to see what her reactions are. Last week I was joking around about her walking around the house naked. We both laughed but I could tell she wasn't completely comfortable with the topic of conversation so I got off the subject quickly. I'm very tactful, and even at that I can tell she is very much on her toes when I poke fun at her. I do not disrespect her in joking around, but I get a feeling that she guards her pride closely, maybe more so than other women I have had close relationships with. Other friends that have met her have suggested she comes across as guarded too.

We don't really flirt in physical ways, and there isn't much flirting going on otherwise. I don't think either of us are touchy feely kind of people, at least I know I'm not, and she isn't that way with me or anyone else I see. When I took her skating she was very off balance and she took my hand a few times when I held it out. I gave her more opportunities to do that, but she declined unless she was really off balance and about to fall. I have tried to touch her a little more lately too, but she declines sometimes. We were at a sporting event and had to climb over the benches. I held my hand out but she didn't take it. Then she lost her balance and started to fall so I grabbed her around the shoulders. She smiled at me and looked a little embarrassed. She seems hesitant with the physical approaches, but not completely against it. I'm not sure if it's a conscience thought of hers to avoid that with me, or if she just wants to demonstrate her independence to either me or herself. She always hugs me at the end of a hang out time but it's a friendly kind of hug.

She has talked to me about sex in general before and how she thinks it should be in a relationship. She's told me some very personal stuff about herself in this regard, including that she has a condition that makes sex hurt sometimes. I'm not sure if I'm a special case or if she is this open with most people in her life.

_________________
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That would be a great plan except I just moved here and don't know enough people for a party.

Well...I should have listened to every last thread/post in this forum about oneitits. It's over now, she's found some guy that she wants to start dating and now I'm just the friend for sure. My timing was way off. I should have said something far earlier.

I had planned to tell her how i felt this week. Again...far to long...I've been hanging with her for a year. I had planned to say...listen, I've emotionally invested in you and at this point and I just can't keep my hands off you anymore. I want to take things to the next level, and if you're not there with me we can't be friends because I need to be emotionally available to someone that is interested in having that kind of relationship with me, and I can't do that when your on my mind so much and we spend so much time together. Then if she said she couldn't, i was going to do the depart and not see her anymore permanently type thing. Try to move on.

Unfortunately she had met a guy two months ago, and now she's off excited to date him. I told her how I felt anyway, and told her we couldn't be friends because I'm attracted, she's not, and that I needed to get over that emotional investment so I could move on to someone else. I told her we couldn't be friends anymore and that was the last we spoke. It's been two weeks now. This would have been so much easier for me if I didn't have the thought that she's not even thinking about me and having fun with another guy. If I had done it earlier on in the year she would have had to make a decision between me and being single....and it might have been a harder one for her given how much she was relying on me for emotional connectivity. Now...she doesn't even have to think about me...she's just out with this guy and life is probably peachy for her.

It's brutally hard the past two weeks for me. I spent a year thinking about her constantly, and that habit isn't going away easily. My dreams are often about her and I having fun together, and her telling me she wants to be with me. It's horrible waking up from those dreams. I've been doing everything i can to put her out of my mind. I've been hanging out with friends as much as possible. Sitting on patio's where there are hot waitresses and girls walking by. I've signed up for a bunch of online dating sites hoping to get some bites on there. I've been out a pubs and whatnot talking to girls trying to improve my game. I have problems with physical escalation I'm working on. All in all...I'm trying my best but my confidence is so low because of this oneitits situation I am really struggling to find peace in all of it and return to my happy self. I wish a hot chick would just give me the time of day so my mind would shift...I have no trouble with approach or talking with girls. It's the step after that I can't get past...physical escalation. I've been reading stuff on here and trying to improve, but of course my mind is still fixated on this oneitits and I continue to feel low.

I learned my lesson, I really did this time. I will never let a situation like that happen again. I will tell a girl what I want from now on, and not fear rejection. No amount of rejection can be as bad as what I'm feeling after a year of putting effort into a girl and getting nothing out of it. My confidence is so bad, I beat up on myself every day for being such and AFC and wishing I had handled this situation, and many of my past relationships differently. I understand this post/thread is pretty long...but maybe some other AFC out there will be smarter than me and not make the same mistake after reading this. Trust me...I'm 32 years old and this is one of the worst experiences I've ever had.

So back in May I cut this chick off as I mentioned in that last post of mine. At the time I told her my feelings for her, and that if she contacted me again she'd know what to expect because I'd always carry a torch for her. I told her she could however contact me if it was an emergency.

So...this is what I get...Sent to me Nov. 18th almost 6 months after the fact

"I received your email in May, I did not understand prior to that day how you felt and I felt terrible that I hurt you. I have tried to respect your feelings and in writing you today I hope I am not doing more harm if there is hope of salvaging our friendship. I'm not going to address your letter by paragraph not today, but I'm writing because I miss you. You have been one of my truest friends, and my world is a lesser place without you in it. Anyway, if I don't hear from you or I do and it's not what I'm hoping for, it's alright. I have been fully forewarned by yourself what to expect for writing for any reason other than because the house is on fire.

I hope your doing well, and that life is treating you kind.
Sincerely,
T"

This girl knows that if she writes me I'm still going to have feelings for her...and she's writing me anyway...but yet she says salvaging our "friendship". WTF?

I'll tell you how I think this played out. She got with that dude, she fucked him, it didn't work out, she's back to being alone and needs the attention again. Now I'm dating someone else and it's going really well. I'd be an idiot to confuse matters by letting this chick back into my world and possibly fucking things up with the new girl I like. She had 6 months to write me, take responsibility for my feelings, but she never did. It would be wonderful if a friendship could happen, but I don't need to be testing those waters right now with this new girl in my life.

In regards to a friendship, will it make a difference if I write this girl back now...or in 6 months?

Seeing no balls on a man is making me want to puke.

What are you a 15 year old? You cut a chick off for not wanting to fuck you and now that she calls back months later, you're debating whether to be her 'friend' or 'not'? What the hell? "Call me for emergencies?" Christ. . .

What VALUE does this girl have for you? Is/was she SOOO caring for you? Soooo nice to you? Did she cook you meals? Entertain you with her wit? Show you some care for your professional life? Did she support your life goals? Can you name any REAL THINGS that she added to your life? All I see in your previous posts is a pain-in-the-ass whiner. Fucking or not fucking you had nothing to do with it. You should have dropped her for being a pain in the ass headcase.

Look, you were desperate for attention and she gave you some . . . with her whiny bullshit. Now you have a girlfriend. Go live a life.

WRITE this girl back. Go discover a MAN voice. You make decisions like a 15 year old girl. You write like a 15 year old girl. You must talk like one too.

This is your letter:

Hey, good hearing from you. It's been a while! I've missed you too. Especially the way ______ (Really? I hope she has some merit worthy of missing. . . ) Thanks for the kind words. Life is treating me well. (Jot down all the great stuff you've been doing) . Stay in touch!

That's it. And no, you are not befriending her. This is a letter to rub it into that whiny, melodramatic bullshit artist and make you look like the good guy in the process. And never tell her that you are NOT her friend. Just keep the title but keep ALL YOUR TIME for your real friends who are not whiners and add happiness to your life.

When giving her the list of stuff I'm doing with my life...do I let her know about the girlfriend?

Keep the list short and powerful. If you write 3 things that sound AWESOME, it'll sound like you did 100 things. If you write down every little detail about 10 things, it'll sound like you've got nothing better to do.

And no, you don't mention the girlfriend in this situation because it's not a big deal. Getting girlfriends, splitting up, etc . . . this is news for chicks in hair salons.

*You seem to find some joy in taking 'care' of head cases. The problem with head cases is that they remain headcases. There is no amount of 'care' that will make them change or ever return this positive energy back to you. And because you continue to feed them positive energy in exchange for their bullshit, head case pain in the asses will always find you and cling to you. (It's a great deal for them) Your ex-wfe might have been this way. This girl in the thread is definitely this way. And you haven't introduced us to your current girlfriend but . . if I was to bet on it . . .

Lots of happy, positive people out there . . . if you're looking for them.

Well if I don't have any intention of hanging out with this girl, why would I say keep in touch? And what if she did start trying to get in touch again...calling, and all that. Then what, I just don't reply to her calls? That would be just as bad if not worse than me just not writing her back now.

And you're right...the girl I'm dating right now has issues.