Hi guys

As i approach a new set, mostly like: target=7+, obstacle(s)=4-6 (at least lately)
i get to hear the obstacles call me arrogant etc. This is really a time-consumer since i have to work the obstacle a lot afterwards but still need to neg the target. I'm not rude at any time and my personality is sure not reserved, introvert, priggish or arrogant.

Could i be crossing some line i dont see? (since the obstacles gets upset) or is it just a thing for them to tell me when they try to DHV?

Maybe because you're ignoring all of the target's friends. If you only talking to the target, her friends will see you're obvious attempt at picking her up and will throw shit tests at you or even drag her away.

You need to engage every person in the group. Come on dude, this is basic group theory we are talking about. Ignore you're girl for inital few minutes and she will notice she is being ignored. She might butt in and try to get a word in, that's when you can throw in a neg. When her friends feel comfortable with you, your target will see that you have been accepted by her group and you can move things forward with her.

Yeah GoldDust is talking about Mystery's group theory. I used to use that but now I don't really ignore the target. I'm just interacting with everyone in the group. It's a more natural approach.

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What I like in life is nothing more but living it.

GoldDust: I get your point. I think youre right that i missed out on the time spend on the obstacles instead of the target. thanks for pointing that out. But: i had these experiences as i tried to open up a seated set; the obstacle had some distance between her and the target and the distance was just enough for the target not to hear what i asked the obstacle about (an opinion opener). A table was in the way - so i couldnt move in between them without obviously trying to intrude their space. This resulted in me having a conversation with the obstacle only and the target was just cut off. Wouldnt it be a DLV for me to ask the target to come closer? (this i find to be the reason for me ending up in talking to the target direclty as i don't want to walk away on the challenge)

MynameisFisher: I like your mindset. Do you approach them directly or indirectly to make it natural for yourself?

Maybe it won't be a DLV if you don't allow it to be. Maybe if you keep an assertive, controlling tone when telling her, it will prevent her from seeing it as a DLV?

Its not what you say but how you say it, right?

I get your point. I guess this only works after A1?

My point is: the A1 is hard to pass with a target "hiding" from contact by sitting in a club with loud music in the corner behind obstacles and even a table which forces me to lean in and fuck it all up from the beginning?

I know i chose bad logistics but i don't wanna quit just because of a rude table and a shy target.

I've worked a lot on my body language since then and i guess that alone would take me a lot of the way as you stated. I just wan't to believe a bit more in these situations as well.