Hi All!

Some of you may remember my story from about a month back. I started dating this cute girl whom I met online. After three dates, she invited me inside to her house after we had been out all night long (kissing, touching, flirting, etc). We started kissing and touching, but somehow we never took it to the next level. She started distancing herself from me after that (taking forever to respond to my texts, short responses, etc). So I distanced myself from her, assuming that she was just not interested in me. I received a text or two from her, nonetheless, she was acting almost indifferent towards me.

We didn't text for a while, and by some miracle, we got back in contact (her initiative). I said a Hail Mary and called her and she invited me out with her friends that night. This was our 4th date together. We didn't kiss, only a hug and a sweet, sexy look from her when we said good night.

Fast forward, her interest level just skyrocketed, and we had dinner together two days later, our 5th date (she even paid for the tip). We made out and had a great time together. We said good night, and she wanted to make plans to see each other the following day.

So the sixth date, I went over to her office and hung out with her in the evening. Once again, we kissed passionately!!! Her door was locked from the inside (you actually needed a key to get out). I joked with her saying that her kiss must be the secret combination to get out, as I was kissing her. She smiled!

When I got home that evening, she sent me a text saying:

Her: "See you again this week...I hope."
Me: "I hope to see you soon too. Sleep tight!"


BAM! Any guy would think that things are going great. But here comes the frustrating portion of my story:

The next day, I sent her a text message (just a cute joke referencing to something that happened the previous evening. She didn't respond! So I blew it off as nothing, as she has been known to be flaky and take forever to respond to my texts. Besides, she has a life and works a lot! I understand that! So I sent her another text the following day saying, "Hey you! I would love to see you today before class! I will bring you dinner at work! How about 7 p.m.?" She said she was running errands all day, followed by a sad smiley face.

So being assertive, I decided to text her on Friday evening the following message:

"Hey Miss Lady! How was your day? Wanna make plans to go out together tomorrow for Halloween?"


Once again, BAM! NO RESPONSE!!! I haven't heard from her since; her Facebook profile showed that she went out for Halloween with some friends.


Hence, she has done this before: Before we had even met up for coffee, she canceled twice. She has always taken a long time to respond to my texts (but she has always responded eventually in the past). She works a lot, as well, but she is still off during the weekend. Jeezzzz!!

What's up with this girl? I am so frustrated at this point! I have decided not to call or text her till she contacts me first. She is the one who told me she wanted to see me again this week. WTF? And, all of a sudden, she just disappears, and makes me feel like it meant nothing to her. 6 dates, and now nothing? Is there another guy in the picture? I don't think there is! She is perhaps just confused and doesn't want a relationship? Perhaps I was too pushy? I did come across as too strong in some of my texts, perhaps? Although, I just reciprocated based on the interest level she was showing me. When a girl likes a guy, games aren't necessary!


I am sure most of you have dealt with a situation similar to mine sometime in the past, so any advice would be much appreciated. I don't know, am I right in not contacting her till she contacts me?

Thanks guys

playing you. You didn't fuck her when you had the chance and now her sexual interest for you is gradually dying. She probably didn't want to hang with you on halloween because she had a chance to fuck other guys on that night and didn't want to waste it with you chasing her around.

_________________
La Dolce Vita.

On dates 4,5, and 6 the opportunity was not there to escalate. How should I move forward with this girl? Should I just give her some space and let her contact me?

These guys are not really helping you.

I think you should take steps to put her behind you while leaving a door open for her to come back. That's what my friends -- all super good guys and naturals -- and I do. The reason is, she knows your interested. It's not like she doesn't know you're interested.

A more tactical point: don't use exclamation marks in your texts. It's not very manly. She's probably reading nervous energy and insincere excitement.

I've read your post three times now, and if it were me, I'd disappear. Maybe she'll write eventually, and maybe not.

But if you're going to write -- and again, I would not -- maybe something like this: "Okay, this is taking a little too long. If things get back to normal you can write me, and we can see just what happens." Nothing cute, and totally relaxed ...

... but still, just in writing her, you'd be showing her you're still thinking about her, and she'll think you're too hung up.

Hey man! Thank you very much for your advice! I just try to be myself around women as much as possible. I signed up here after my ex and I broke up. A few months later, I met this new girl on a dating website. She is cute, friendly and well educated. I enjoy being around her. Perhaps I am suffering from "one-itis" a bit too much, simply because I don't really have any other options at the moment.

You know, last time this happened, I called her up about a week later and asked her out. She said she was busy Friday, so I asked her to go out with me on Saturday instead. So her lack of responsiveness is perhaps not an IOD as much as a character flaw/playing games. What do you think?

I still haven't contacted her since last Friday, for I do not wanna come across as pushy. But I am contemplating calling her on Thursday if she still hasn't contacted me. I refer to these moments as doing a "Hail Mary." She is sending me so many mixed signals that I don't really know how to respond.

Please don't think that I am ignoring your advice about not contacting her again. If I had more options on the table, I probably would go that route. She has given me so many indicators of interest. I like this girl, and I don't want to play games or act indifferent. Last time we saw each other, she told me that she would just tell a guy straight up if she was not interested in him.

Ignoring a guys texts is hardly a good sign either. But she has pretty much been like this from day 1!!!

From a strategy stand point, will not contacting her increase her willingness to hang out with me? The thing is, I have already built attraction with her; it's there. Last time she invited me to her office and we made out and she texted me, "See you this week again...I hope." And now she just disappears again? I am so frustrated....



What am I to make out of all of this? I really don't think that she is dating anyone else, but she has LOTS of guy friends (some of them are actually really cool).

Do you think she is deliberately playing games with me?

I like khuram, because I feel he does want to help you, and that's awesome -- but I wouldn't do it his way.

First, in your situation, I completely disagree with "making a move is never going to harm you". You've made moves. Enough so that she has a good idea who you are. So why make more?

I call it "the problem of adding" and I'm talking a lot about it these days. The idea is, adding things to something that's not working is much more likely to worsen it than make it better. And it can worsen things extremely fast when you don't know what's going wrong in the first place. And you don't know.

Yes, if you were the god of framing, you might be able to get away with it. But that's pretty unlikely and very hard, right?

I've done the "hot-cold" and "no-sense" thing a lot, because that's just my personality sometimes. And I've found it most often makes the chick think I'm a little weird. (Again, if you're the god of framing, you might get away with it ... but again ... )

And if she gets a needy vibe from you, it's there. You don't get rid of it by disappearing a bunch of times, /and coming back/ every single time. You don't get rid of it by adding.

I subtract (or disappear, or retreat, like in The Tao of Steve), move forward, walk my dog, live my life, do things I like, say hi to other girls, meet other girls, kiss other girls, and let her come back if she wants. She's not the goal. The goal is you being happy. (She's often the by-product.)

On to you. I've been in your post-break-up situation. It's hard. Sorry to hear about it. But it will end :)

I don't try to figure out what's going wrong or what's in the girls head. It could be a million different things. I never chalk it up to a character flaw, because I don't believe in those. She's perfect, and so are you. You may just not be right for each other.

Instead, I find it more useful just to acknowledge that something isn't working, and that I probably can't fix it by adding. This is where I subtract, and say hi to other girls, and move on. This kills one-itis and leads to so much more peace inside.

It will also give you the "more options" you say you don't have. They don't just grow on trees. You have to say hi to girls :)

I think "mixed messages" are usually just evidence the girl isn't into you but has a heart. She has a heart, because she doesn't want to hurt you. You don't really want her to be a heartless bitch and say, "I don't like you", just to have a clear message, right?

-Joe

Thank you so much for your kind reply. I talked to a friend of mine today about it, and she thinks I should call her again.... She said that considering she kissed me and sent me a text last week saying "see you next week...I hope" the girl obviously likes me. So I have decided to call her on Thursday evening and try to set something up with her.

And if it doesn't work out between us, I will have to move on. Natural Joe, the thing is that she kissed me and set up our last two dates. Girls don't kiss guys they aren't attracted to. On the other hand, girls respond to a guys text messages when they are interested also.

But the way I see it, if I don't try, I automatically lose. But I agree with you 100% that moving on and acting indifferent will make you feel better in the long-run. It's when you stop caring that the results start to appear. This feeling of indifference is easy to have when you have lots of options.

So any advice for how to proceed? I hope she texts me cause I really like her....

((Preface: I don't know! I'm just giving an opinion. And the hope is, it makes you more confident in whatever choice you choose.))

First -- never take advice from girls!!!! :) They've never been in the guy position. From the time they're twelve, every guy they see wants to have sex with them. Their advice comes from that perspective.

And second, girls have no idea what they're actually attracted to. If they were attracted to nice guys who try and try and try, all this pickup stuff -- which works -- would be about being a nice guy who tries and tries and tries. (Maybe they want to settle down with a nice guy -- but first they must be attracted.)

They're attracted to guys who have options. Guys with "high value" have options. And by being distant and letting go, that's the message you convey.

Girls /do/ kiss guys they're not sold on. Just like guys do. Yes, there are good signs -- but you can't ignore the bad signs.

You say if you don't try, you'll automatically lose. Not true. Because you could let her go, and she could come back. That's possible. And maybe more likely than you realize.

It's also very possible that if you try, you'll lose. Trying is not automatically better. Trying too hard is maybe the cardinal sin of attraction.

Also, redefine "losing". Do you lose if you don't get /her/? No. She's not the goal. The goal is finding the right girl. And with the right girl, you don't have to try too hard. (You even said this.)

By realizing this, I became more indifferent. Options follow indifference -- but not indifference alone. Also become open to talking to more than one girl at a time. At any one time, I may be talking to three or four girls. So even if they're all flakey, I'm still talking one a day, and feel no need to pressure the others. And I'm not playing them or being an asshole. I just realize that one in 20 really likes me. That's nature. As soon as something turns into something special, I drop the others -- and usually they're not hurt, because they were maybe only half into me anyway. (Girls play this game without knowing it, because different guys are always texting them.)

I'd still stay away. You've spent enough time together that she knows who you are, and it doesn't sound like you've made any mistake you need to correct. At this point, by staying away, you're protecting yourself, and maybe becoming more attractive to her too.

I'm currently staying away from /two/ girls I really want. It's hard, I know, but I'm also preserving my dignity. I'm waiting for them to write, and getting other number in case they don't.

Can you try staying away another week? If you still can't stand it, maybe consider a text like this: "I guess something happened along the way. It's too bad. I liked you. You don't need to write back."

Again, just opinions.

Also, if you have girl friends, that's awesome. I have tons. I observe them though, rather than listen to them. Because again, what they say they want and what they go after are different things.

And hanging out with girl friends is an awesome way to meet more girls. If you're just with guys, they think, "GROUP OF RAPISTS!!!!" But if you're with a girl, they think, "Well if she likes him, he can't be a rapist." I get way more looks when I'm with my girls than alone, or with my guys, or even with my dog.

Hey Natural Joe,

Thanks for your advice. Last night I sent her a ringtone on Facebook of her favorite band and she sent me a sweet thank you text. I sent her a message asking if she had fun on Halloween. 20 minutes later she responded to one of my Facebook status updates.


Tonight when I got home from class, I sent her a cute picture of my kitten via text. I joked about the picture. I also asked if she wanted to have a few beers with me on Friday.

I haven't heard back from her. This really sucks. I crashed and burned. The shitty thing is that I really started to like her. I first read your response right now, but i just wanted to thank you for all of your advice. I am not a player; I just really want to find someone who likes me like I like her. I suppose, if for nothing else, this has been a great learning experience for me.

Had I done it all over again, I would have done some things differently. I just think it is so disrespectful of her not to text me back. At the very least, she could say she isn't interested. I am assuming there must be another guy involved (and I was her second choice). I just feel really down right now. Sheez!!!


Thanks again, Khuram, Natural Joe and everyone else for reading my story and offering advice.

The thing is this:


A)Last week she didn't respond to one of my jokes over text. The next day, I asked her if I could bring her dinner to her office. She sent me a text saying she would be running errands later on in the evening. Followed by a "Sorry" text.

B) I asked her out for Halloween via text, and she did not respond again.

C) Last night, I sent her a ringtone of her favorite band on FB. I then called her and she did not pick up. She sent me a thank you message on FB a few minutes later. I responded by asking how her Halloween was. She did not respond.

D) 20 minutes later she responded to one of my status updates.

E) This evening I sent her a text message with a photo attached of my kitten (Granted, this was the third time I had sent her a pic of my kitten, lol; slightly overkill, perhaps!!). I also asked her out for Friday. Once again, She did not respond.


Honestly, I think I lost her. I just need to move on. I don't think anything I say or do will build any attraction at this point. Look at how many times she has played me above.

Thanks Khuram.

Well she responded to me this morning by saying, "Hey Hey Hey! No I can't today."

Me: "Aww What can a charming guy do to take name out tomorrow? Otherwise I will have to ask Siri out on a date. haha"

Her: You are funny I am going out of town this weekend.


At least she responded. haha

I'm not the one to judge but from what i have been reading through other people's opinions and your responses, you honestly let your emotions decide things out... very beta, females act this way. In this kind of situation it's best to "think" things out. You had some of the best replies with some VERY helpful advice that couldn't have been worded any better and you disregarded them. From the very beginning you let her initiate way too much. When a girl feels like she has too much of a firm grip on a guy she likes, she looses attraction and continues on with another guy. It also seemed as though you were only being responsive AFTER you finally knew she was in to you. An alpha male is always proactive, never reactive, now you make it seem like your accepting what has been given to you and you don't want to let go of it. May I remind you, this is unhealthy for a relationship... even if this miraculously turns into one, you will not be happy. A girls perception of you is made up very fast, it will take so long to change that because you have to display it through actions. Words will NEVER convince her. There was about 3-4 times where you shouldn't have been sending her messages until you had clear feedback from her. Instead you were persistent and in the process came off very needy. This is the trait you're probably going to have to disprove to her and from my experience...it is one of the hardest things because you have to act aloof. Something we have failed at very miserably. It's up to you now to decide how your going to learn from this.

Good luck

You guys are absolutely right, and I really value your input and advice. I learn a lot and try to adapt it to my situation and how I interpret her personality. She is flaky and I don't think she really knows what she wants.

I think I have two options that I am considering right now: 1) Ask her directly via text if she is interested in continuing to date me; 2) Back off for two weeks and maybe ask her out again.

If I ask her directly, I thought about going about it something like this:

Hypothetical situation:
Me: Hey name! Would you like to see each other sometime this week? Maybe we can go out and get a bite to eat, play tennis, or go to the movies. Or I can make dinner for us. I am a great cook you know! haha What do you say?

Her: I don't know yet. My schedule is really busy this week.

Me: May I ask you something, name? Are you still interested in dating? If you are not, no worries. I just wanted to know.

I've never been a fan of direct text, I feel like it takes away from my pride as a man when I do (probably a flaw in my character). That's just me though, I usually would just take the signs as it is and continue on with my life. Your way works too, I suggest you try not to lure her in with that message to confront her. There are many problems with the first text, instead try to make it seem like your legitimately trying to see her if she flakes then be direct. First you give her too many options, she already has a lot of control as is don't feed her more. Give her 2 at most, and get rid of the enthusiasm, your displaying too much for someone who isn't getting any attention and lastly, I don't think it's a good to cook for her. She doesn't f ucking deserve that SPAM, I only cook for girls that have earned their privileges. You should rather leave it to her to impress you since she's been ignoring you. She should be trying to make it up to you.