Wait a second... She said she wanted to get back together with you...and you said "so we are almost cool!???"

You got her to admit what you wanted to hear. At that point, I would have feigned a reluctance to get back together and made her work to convince me that I should take her back.

You don't really have to worry about push/pull right now. As long as you continue to be positive, confident, and strong around her, you should be OK.

Got as little twist on the original problem here. I have been dating this girl for about 4 months and for the first 2 things were awesome. She is a different kinda girl in that she is NOT one for talking on the phone, does not need/want much communication, is NOT likely to ever mention or bring up relationship issues unless I prompt/start it, is not clingy or always around... she needs/wants her space. Sounds like the ideal situation, huh? Well, not so much... the problem is that for the first 2ish months the fire was there and I KNEW she wanted the relationship and that she was intent on this being long term. She expressed that. At about the 2 month mark she went out of town to be with her family for 2 weeks and her mentality was like "outta sight, outta mind" and she rarely contacted me. I got kinda pissed about it cuz this was out of the norm and of course that came across as needy and insecure (I know that now) and I expressed a LOT of shit I probably shouldn't have and showed my hand. Well, after she came back she was kinda distant but said she still wanted to see where this went. Definite cool down. Since that time she doesn't call/text as much, doesn't come over as much or stay over as often, etc. I made the mistake of telling her I didn't think she "wanted" this relationship anymore and she countered with "I just don't know if I can give you what you want/need (contact, being around more, etc) to make you happy". Wham... kick in the gut, but she did follow with this... "I DO want to be with you and that's why I haven't given up but I am not sure how I feel about this and don't know where it's going". Well, some positive there but it's a definite BIG step back from what it was before she left on that trip. No, I KNOW that it's not another guy, cheating, etc... it's just this is her way and now that we're more "comfortable" in the relationship she's asserting control and instead of me taking back control I fell into the submissive role and tried to be nicer, more accomodating, more available, etc... exactly what I shouldn't have done, LOL! I found this and another forum last week and realized that the key is to create some distance and started trying to do that... when she takes a long time to respond to a text, double that amount of time before I respond to her. NOT ask her to come over as much. NOT call her or text her as much. Let her say goodnight at the end of the night and not reply (something I've never done before). All the good stuff but then I hit a snag. She called me out on it. This past weekend she asked me what was wrong and I played the lame ass "Oh, just busy" or "didn't see your text til later" line but she KNEW it was BS. I had NEVER done that before and she literally said "Look, I can feel like you are pulling away and trying to put some distance between us". I was caught... didn't know what to say. No advice I have seen ever addressed that. I said "well, I have just been thinking lately that I needed to do my own thing more and that it wasn't a bad thing if we weren't in touch as much as before"... she called bullshit and nailed me again. She knew exactly what I was doing and I had NO fallback. She told me "look, I don't want to date some asshole who plays games or thinks that being unattentive is going to win me over" so yeah... totally busted.
Here's what I know... and how I know it. Like an insecure dick I did get into her phone/email one day and learned some interesting things. She broke up with her ex because he was absolutely not expressive at all and she never thought he was going to commit (after 3 yrs) but that she things I'm too expressive. She said to her friends in an email, verbatim, "He's really sweet and I really do like him a lot but there has been major drama at times (which I am NOT down with)which definitely has me concerned. I'm just not sure if it's going to go anywhere but at this point but I'm 100% sure it's a no-go so I'm going to just see where it goes". Other key "findings"... She told her friends she feels bad cuz she knows she’s saying to me the same things that her ex said to her that caused her to leave him. She thinks that spending more than 3 or 4 days together in a row is "too much", etc, etc. I could go on, but you get the jist.
My problem is this... she's already flat out busted me for trying to create distance. She's on to just about every tactic I can think of to create distance and KNOWS it's not me to do that and that it's a game, not genuine. She still initiates contact rather often (not as much as I'd like but enough to make completely ignoring her become tense and awkward in just a day or two). I KNOW she wants this to some degree but getting her off the fence seems like it's going to take something and she's taken away my best tool. I know my best option is to start doing things on my own and become more "busy" but I think she will just look at that as a positive and won't really be phased by it which defeats the purpose. How can I possibly create that distance that will make her "miss" me and start to value things more without tipping her off that I'm doing it and evenmore, what can I say if/when she calls me out on it? I feel since she's called me out once, if I do it again and get "caught" that the conversation might not go so well and she will be a lot less accepting of me having done it. Kinda stuck... I know she's into this relationship (at least mostly) but is waiting for some kick to make her say "yeah, this is what I want"... how do I give her that kick in the ass she needs if she's taken away my best tool???

BTW, I should say that I know there is to be no more drama, no more discussions of feelings or the relationship, no more letting her know that ANYTHING she does bothers me, etc... I just need to know what to do about the creating distance cuz I DO think that is the key but having been busted once it's kinda difficult. I had set up a date with her tomorrow night and haven't told her what/where but it was going to be to a place I know she wanted to see and she has agreed and said she's excited. We are also supposed to go on a couples thing (4 couples going) up to the mountians and stay in a cabin and the next day (which has been planned and paid for for about 5 weeks) so it's not like I can disappear or become distant.

I had 2 thoughts... Call her and cancel tomorrow night and say I had other plans come up (which she will know is a lie) BUT the problem is she is already staying the night tomorrow so we can leave super early Saturday so that throws a wrench in getting her to believe I'm going to do something else. Other idea was when we are on the couples deal this weekend totally act interested and keep 90% of my conversations with the OTHER couples, but not so much with her. Not "avoid" her by any means... just make it seem like she's not the most important thing on the trip and that I don't have a lot of time for her cuz I'm having too much fun cutting up with the others. What do you guys think... bad ideas or no??

Holy Wall of Text...

I'll try to read that tomorrow if I have time. Looking at it right now makes my eyes bleed.

Ok, the problem she had with you was you were too expressive, then you completely swung it around and was too distant and she picked up on the change because you didn't do it gradually.

Maybe you're looking at this too black and white and not seeing the levels of gray inbetween. Don't be distant in the same sense she is, just tone down your closeness (for lack of a better word). I can't give exact examples but it's something you should be figuring out on-the-fly. One word I hear too much on recordings and not enough on this forum is "recalibration". It basically means that you're taking into account the reactions that certain things you say or do get from her, and if it's a positive reaction you can do more of that than the negative reaction-gaining actions.

A relationship, for me, is one big calibration test. If it's going stale, you went wrong somewhere along the line. For yourself, pick out the point were you think you went wrong - it'd be interesting and helpful for you if you tell us what you think you're mistakes were, then the rest of us can tell you if we agree or not.

_________________
- The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances; if there is any reaction, both are transformed

- You make your own luck

Yeah guys, sorry it's long, LOL, just thought thorough was better than vague.

Grifter, I can't say I disagree with you much at all. I know she picked up on the sudden shift and to some degree that's what I wanted cuz I wanted it to be on her radar but I DIDN'T expect her to call me out on it... especially on day like 2 or 3. Guess I just have to recraft my approach to pulling away. I'm thinking calling her up today and saying something came up and I'd rather not go out tonight with her (but say maybe another night) might be an excellent plan and maybe even mentioning that the guys asked me to do something.

As for where it went wrong... well, I think it's two fold, part me, part her. She isn't expressive so in the beginning it was very new and maybe even fresh for her (cuz her ex was soooo unexpressive). She liked it, but it kinda wore out it's overjoyed welcome. I think (and she now admits) that she started cooling off BEFORE that vacation to see her family, I picked up on it, and reacted. I think it started when she started cooling down on the spark and me, instead of reacting appropriately, pushed harder to "make her see" just how good it was and at the same time tried to pull her back. That's why I say two fold... part me, part her. She's definitely still interested and definitely still wants this, but she's waiting for some "indication" that it's right and I thought the way to get her to see that was to lavish her and make her see just how great things are... I was wrong. I should have pulled back and let her see just how BAD it would be if she were to leave... at least that's what I think. What about you guys?

Its not what it seems to be... yesterday we had 'a talk' because im a faggot and asked to....I did so many unecessary pulls, now she's on top again. The talk was something stupid like...

"Yea, I want to get back together, but not now, I'm very insecure about the relationship because you dumped me last december"
So, the shit is, im on this mind blowing stupid game, where I dont know if she'll get back or not, if I stay limited contact probably ill lose, if I dump her just to make she think I dont care, prolly im fucked aswell... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Holy crap!

"Yea, I want to get back together, but not now, I'm very insecure about the relationship because you dumped me last december" Dude, she just gave you a blueprint to get her back!

Limited Adjusted Contact is where you should be right now! That is partly my fault. I focused on you having a kid with her and completely missed the part about you being the one who broke up with her.

You have to look at things from her perspective. You rejected her, and now she is reciprocating that rejection. For her this is both a matter of pride and insecurity. Pride, because she is angry that you broke up with her in the first place. Insecurity, because if she did take you back, would you just lose interest again later and put her right back at square one of rejection?

Here is what I stated earlier in the thread to someone else; the same applies to you: However, for this to work out, you ABSOLUTELY have to get your emotions and your mindset straightened out. You keep letting your emotions get the better of you, giving in to the despair, and making decisions while you are not thinking logically.

Remember, she is not going to let you back in overnight. It's going to take some time for her to trust you again. Do not go overboard with contacting her, or you will push her away. Do not speak about the relationship. Just remain calm and patient. You know what you have to do, so just stick to it. Every time you are going to make a decision about her, stop and think about how you are feeling first. If you have that sickness in your stomach and feelings of despair, then that means you should not act on whatever you decide. Wait until you have calmed down and then see if you reach the same conclusion then.

Sidnne, where the fuck were you 6 months ago? Great advice. I can honestly say I've made alot of those mistakes, and was confused. Am I not being the perfect boyfriend by being so thoughtfull and attentive to her needs? By being caring and making her always feel special.
What it comes down to is a struggle for power. If you notice all of those 'unattractive qualities' are forms of submission, and all of the 'attractive qualities' are traits of a man confidently displaying his value, he holds the power.
Women are not meant to lead. They want that to be the mans job. They want someone who isn't afraid to take the reigns, to dominate them in and outside the bedroom.

That's why we have balls.

That's why when you try to hand your balls over to your gf shit doesn't work out.
Notice when you afc's are holding your gf's purse there is no pocket to tuck your balls in?

ya, because that's not where they belong.

If ya didn't know, now ya know. Now go be a man, and smack ya bitch up the way she's been craving it.

Should I use Limited contact strategies? Like, making her jealous? Going out and taking pictures/then posting to facebook? If I do that, wouldn't that blow my chances to ashes? Since she's trying to trust me again and I'm still trying to pick up other girls? If yea, thats a flaw on LAC, isn't?

You're never trying to make her jealous. That should never be in your mind.

The point of going out and having fun and taking pics, is not to make her jealous, but to show her that you have social value, you are fun, people want to be around you, and you are not sitting at home sulking over the break up. Other women do not have to be in these pictures. These can be just pictures of you and your friends going out and doing fun things. It doesn't have to be to a bar or club. Go do exciting new things that you have always wanted to try (skydiving, rock climbing, painting, flying a kite, etc.) and take pics of you doing those things.

As far as trying to pick up other girls... This is something that you should be doing. But there is no reason she should have to know about it. Listen, you do not want to be sitting around and waiting for her to come back. You cannot put your life on hold for someone else, and doing so is a weakness, not a strength.

Talking to other women is good for you, because it will help boost your confidence and self-esteem. The other thing it will do is help you to not stress out over your ex. If you show yourself that you can meet other women, then your ex is not going to be as important because you know you'll have other options. You may even get over your ex completely and save yourself a lot of trouble and heartache.

David deangelo said that you need to stop the relationship and wait for her to come to you

by stop you mean?.... i literally say ("I dont want it anymore") or just escape by limitating contact, going out with other people...?

"if you lose power with her, stop and wait until she comes back to you"
not the exact thing as the tittle but still something
oh, if you don't want it, then i'm not sure,

Please don't just parrot something that somebody else said without understanding what it means. It's really not helpful.

He is already beyond that point since they aren't together anymore. There is nothing to "stop." If she had broken up with him, then "stop and wait for her to come back to you" might apply. But that isn't the case here.

Like I have already said, she wants to come back, but the issue is trust. How can she trust that you won't walk away and hurt her again? You have to rebuild that trust, while at the same time rebuilding your masculinity and re-establishing yourself as a strong confident man of high value. It is a very difficult thing to do and it is a slow process.