Absolutely, but indeed also the original posters are often doing the same thing. They don't give you 10% of the information it would require you to give them much better advice than a simple man up or something dumb like that.

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Even the most naturally gifted can learn to become better.

Ha-ha

Maybe its becouse of the huge number of topics created that connects with the even greater ammount of users this forum has; but to me words like "journey" started to lose their charm.

You see, it is a journey indeed; comes with some principles and makes you grow up as a real man in this world.

It is something to feel proud about, you are making the difference simply by trying, the merely fact that you take an interest in these arts shows that you are imrpoving.

But right after this comes trouble: you get all buffed with books, vids, comments and advice that you finally gather some balls and you approach.
BOOM! You`ve got rejected.
Ego time, you feel crappy, probably wont do any other approach that night; fuck, not even tomorrow or the next weekend.

Your anxiety is not as much anxiety as you think, its your ego hurting and telling you to better shut the fuck up, even if the girls approached you or if shes giving you the eyes.

Its a cruel world we live in, but you are here couse you are supposed to deal with it and you can make the difference; you are supposed to be a man that changes some part of that world.

I guess that what they all try to say when advice you with things like: draw circles and finish the fucking owl after, is that you need to BELIEVE in yourself and what you can do.

Main reason why I think this is very related to self helping books and videos; they are giving you advice on how to be a person, a human, the man you are here to be.

Of course, thats as vague as saying: go live your life brother.
But this is what the topic creator is trying to show I think; we cant give you any specifics unless we are fully aware of your situation and here comes other problems like: are YOU even aware of your situation? I know I deny many things about myself and I recognize some others wich Im proud of.
But in order to improve in any area of your interest, you first have to be AWARE.

If its ok I might try to write on this topic what Im aware of are my troubles and maybe I could get some real advice if you find my situation interesting.

Couse lets face it: we all want to hear the interesting story, even if there are guys out there with enough patience to advice the same situation 200 times a day, I know you`d love to advice an interesting one.

I have to question you here, do you mean politically left?

OT: Yeah, I kind of agree, you need to give specific advice pertaining to the issue. However, to try and get to know everyone on the personal level you suggest on an Internet forum is ridiculous. If there isn't enough in the OP to give sound advice then they're doing it wrong. If you simply can't give sound advice then you're an idiot.

To be blunt, just give some decent fucking advice that relates to the problem. Don't just dance around the point with a vague generalisation.

Good analogy, but the "sticking points" section of the forum is probably the best place a forum like this can fill in the gaps between the "circles" and the "owl".

If you follow the structure of the MM, you'll find the 'general' steps layed out. (No pun intended lol). Opening, conversation, story telling, DHVing, comfort building, number close/kiss close/both, day 2 etc. etc.

If you follow David D's structure: He basically lays out the need for a combo of "inner" game (confidence, mindstate, etc.) and "outer" game (routines, etc.).

The organization of the MM makes it easy on a forum like to this give and get advice in particular areas, without having to write a 2 page essay when all you wanted to say was..."how do I kiss close?" -A

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The MM is most effective when modded to match your life. -Aprovato

tbfh I wish people would be a lot more detailed in their situations, so they are easier to interpret, I understand people dont like reading walls of text but it helps filter out bullshit or miscalibrated responses.

Then people can read the original nuances and compare the reply's to see how people arrive at solutions with either intuition or experience or a an amalgamation of both. Thats when real education and development will occur within the forums as you get to see the details that allowed a person to come to that view correct or not. At that point both beginners like myself and experienced people will be able to get valueble insights and improve aspects of themselves they never new they needed to fix, intrinsically making threads far more interesting.

people just lie to themselfs all the times ..

most pua are just a bunch of liars... they say : man up ... just tell her she's a bitch blablbla. those are guys who just hypnotized themself into believing something wihtout really changing their deep inner game.

it's just a lie stacked on a lie

the reason why people need advice is because they cannot see what they are doing, they are lying to themselfs...

that is because i dislike most PUA.. especially the commercial ones .. because they lie to a guy that they can do this and that without adressing the real issue. Most people or PUA on this forum come here just to project their belief system on other people so people will give them confirmation it's really working.

most people do not adress their issues therefore you cannot expect others you solve it for you... people who offer useless advice on a question are just people who had the same issue but instead of dealing with it they just nixed it out of their minds.

just assume you are always lying to yourself ...just assume that almost all people are lying to themselfs. fact is that woman want to fuck men .. men want to fuck woman - it's just a biological thing....it's a fact ..nothing subjective about it.

it's not about seperating fact from opinion... it's about separating the truth from the lies.... just read the post .. look at the point where to guy is in conflict with his own intentions - where he is lying to hiimself and adress it.

you have expert liars
and you have expert beginners

being a expert does not make you a good expert.. the reason why 99 % of the experts don't want to be open minded it because it causes them to be inconsistent with their goals - it's too hard to think this way. So they just believe their system is the best and that it is the only thing that works...

in zen they talk about the beginners mind.. it's where you become a expert at something - you become rigid , and then you let go and go back to your beginners mind to be again open minded AND aware of everything around you....most experts are experts in one certain aspect...you never see a expert who is experienced in multiple schools of thought.

if you collect all materials... david deangelo , RSD stuff , Anthony robbins, Cesar millan, psychological material , philosophical material...

if you bunch them up and look at the relationship between them it's about improving your inner game BY cutting away the little lies you have created over the years. those false insecure beliefs need to be unwired.. you have to undo your old false conditioning...

cesar millan ( dog whisperer ) says that people are always treating their dog like they are more than a dog ... owners put such value and expectations on their dogs that they cannnot be dogs anymore... they get dominant and aggressive - unbalanced dogs.

if you treat a dog like a human it becomes unbalanced because it isn't a human. If you treat a human like a dog, the humanbecomes unbalanced as well...
you just need to seperate your false perspective from the truth and see things for what they really are...most humans treat their dog as a human being becuase they put huge value on it..

same for belief systems ... creators/experts put such huge value on it that they are forgetting the fact it's just a belief system. the completely indentify with it ..
pua do not see the human and their issues .. they only see the chode who needs to learn to be a expert pua.

but again this is a PUA forum .. at least it's called this way... you can expect useless advice from rigid minds

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AK-47...When you absolutely positively have to kill every fucking orc in the room
questions about herbal medicine here-vp582526.html#582526

any chance we can sticky this line alone haha

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Even the most naturally gifted can learn to become better.

I think the OP is great and true. People always ask why they are being asked retarded questions when they don't bother to explain. Get upset "AFTER" you have bothered to explain. Avoid generalizations, and get advice based on a person's strengths, not "what you see them as". Of course people are going to ask some dumb questions, but the OP highlighted many things that I constantly have to alert posters about. Thread after thread I keep telling people to put "more" details in their posts, they just say "I’m asking retarded questions". Most advice is only "cosmetic" and does not delve deeper into a person's "self-image". Most advice never bothers with the self-image and helping to reshape it. In fact most advice completely neglects the self-image, and therefore most advice in this community fails for most of its people. Most of the people who are successful have very "similar" character traits. There is an exception every once in a while, but this is more often than not, rare.


I will sound "dumb" but I think too much "emphasis" is placed on women and not the "men" who use the products. Too little time is spent on finding out what exactly "intrinsically" motivates men to do things, or how best to help men “change his self-image". Once this occurs, then it is much easier for a person to change how they view and conduct themselves. If a person doesn't change how they view themselves, then they will inevitably fail.

So when people say "man the fuck up". They are making an "assertion" of will power which will almost certainly fail. When people say "do x, y, and z" without ascertaining what is most palatable to the individual, it will fail. There is too much time spent on "man the fuck up" and improving "weaknesses" instead of enhancing strengths.

I didn't read other replies so prob. someone got these before me but here we go:

list of top problems with PU advise:

1)They don't listen/don't apply - we say do it, they never get to do it.
2)Miscalibrated - here is where KJs come in...they might give good advise, but without personal experience it just can be wrong for this situation
3)Too general - the one that you mentioned, but I don't think its lack of understanding that is the problem here. I think it is because PU is general in itself. Enter with form exit without form if you wish. What that means, we can give you outline and pointers to guide you, but mostly it's experience+adaptability.

Also, when teaching PU, one must be careful, because you can't really teach PU in itself, one must learn from his own mistakes and see what works for this individual person in his situation.

Peace.

LMAO khumar....

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Hey look at that!
What?
That! You dont see it?
No not really....
Oh come on theres nothing i just wanted to talk to you. Whats your name?

I agree...the individual advice given on PUA forums is too generic.

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"There are two lessons you MUST learn in life my son...always watch where you sign your name...and always watch where you put your dick!"

Yiannis Pantis (Kolonia)