Apologize for this addyed up rant. I should ebe doing homework but i'm just posting randomly. Honestly if you pull a girl using routines what's so good about it. Do you really feel goo about yourself when you do it. To be honest the whole "i need a female opinion on something" opener is absolutely garbage. Cool it will work but to be honest do you really need a female opinion about something that never really happened or doesn't mater. Also, do female opinions truly matter to you? Why are y'all being so incongruent with yourselves and lying to yourselves. Why do you need to DHV..do you really think you are of low value..why are you putting the girl on a pedestal. You are on the same level as the girl, as is any other person in the world. She isn't something else. There aren't higher value guys in a place. We all have the same value it doesn't matter. You should be approaching because you are of high value and she wants to talk to you. You're a guy, she's a girl. Sure you can be friends with girls. But basically you approaching her is because you are interested inpossibly hooking up with her. If she screws up it's her fault..it's her loss. It shouldn't be like "oh now i need to DHV and exceute routine #131...now time for a neg" in order to get her. You should be doing things subconsciously like you would do. Yes, I do certain things that involve some of this pick up jargon, but it happens unconsciously. I throw out negs just to joke around with her sometimes because I honestly find something ridiculous about her. I'm not saying "oh you're trouble" when I don't really think she's trouble. I actually show disinterest when she is actually not as attractive anymoer. let's say the girl was a bad kisser...okay well that's time to stop making eye contact now. Bascially you should just go in strong, be proudn of yourself...keep body language and stuff. Why would you be talking to her if you weren't planning on really getting to know he and keep things open for her. Look her right in the eyes and give that vibe off that you're awesome. Don't need to tell stories to explain it. The only thing that might be important to all of this pic up stuff is Inner game, body language, and tonality. Drop the whole routine nonsense and be yourself. it'll make you feel a ton happier, it'll make the girls you get with a ton happier and will end all crappy relationships you end up in, and it'll boost your self-esteem. I make out with a girl because I want to, now because I scouted out 5 IOIs beforehand. If you are looking out for IOIs it means you aren't even caring about her or what she says. Drive the conversation towards what you want to talk about. The story is you should be getting with every woman you should be getting with. There are going to be some girls that just aren't right for you..so be it. You can be friends with them, you can still be nice to them, but don't put on some sort of facade in order to get with them for the night. We aren't trying to manipulate people, we are here to provide value to them. So what that guys like Mystery get laid...who wants to walk around with necklaces around them and a giant goofy hat and all of that stuff. it's just weird. I can guarantee you that other individuals get laid as well. And i'm certain that mystery doesn't get laid as much as he may have had in the past. And his relationships are probably not the healthiest. Be yourself..even if you are a nerd and whatnot. as long as you exude passion about yourself the girl will not care. If you are passionate about video ggames and it comes off towards the girl, all the power to you. they don't judge. Obvioiusly you will get shit tested, but just ignore them. don't et them hurt you. Put yourself out there, and actually go call them out on the shittest or just don't respond to it and don't get effected by it. I had a converation with a girl about Fanta once at 2 am in the morning, she's like wtf are you talking about. you're so weird and whatnot. After like 12 minutes I found out that a friend of mine got too drunk so i had to take her back home, the girl i was talking to threw her phone number at me without even asking.

Just be yourself..it's all that you have to do. Routines and all of that stuff are pointless

I didn't read the giant wall of text there (paragraphs are your friend) but I agree with the thread title.

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i read it
i liked it
i agree with it

I agree wholly with you about being yourself. My guess is that routines are for people who have some sort of approach anxiety and need to break the ice with something cheeky. But yeah you are right. At the end of the day, what's the worst that could happen???

I always feared rejection which is why i suffer from approach anxiety but I'm working on that now.

mm the biggest piece of garbage i have ever read, i want my money back...

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Nope, I disagree, the MM is a good read for people who have the exact same problems as Mystery and it is an easily accessible way into PU.

And it gives people a crash course in not sucking terribly in every way. Some of the basics he teaches are still present in other peoples methods.

But yes, the MM is best learned, understood and put into the back of your mind to give way for other things, like being a real person.

Everybody loves to bash on Mystery but remember that just because you start at a higher level of confidence/PUAdom/insight, it doesnt mean that it can not be helpful to others less fortunate.

I dont like sparkling water but I would definately use it if I was stuck out in the desert.

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

MM, canned stuff, routine.. etc is good for people who are learning to pick up. It is hell easy to say "go natural and be yourself", but in reality you can't just be yourself day 1 into the game if you were always bad with woman.

Well, that sucks for the hundreds of members here who have so far in their lives, sucked by doing exactly that . . . being themselves. Do you have any suggestions for them?

Yuuuuup, be yourself is a lie so PUA's can steal the people who listen to em's women. If your already a PUA then be yourself would be the correct statement.

Having confidence is all that's needed. All my bad interactions are because I half step my approach instead of just going right in. Confidentially saying whatever is all that's needed. Too many guys supplicate to girls..they do what the girl wants them to do.

I will admit I do buy girls drinks at bars...I don't do it because they ask. I do it because I want to. Basically breaking every rule out there. There's the difference. If you like doing something, go do it. Don't do something because someone told you it's alright.

Heck I even buy dudes drinks at the bars if I know them. I expect people to reciprocate. I know that some other time down the line they'll be there to get me a beer.

The guys aren't hooking up with girls because they are being themselves...it's that they are failing to be themselves. Girls can be treated as if they were your younger sibling. The confidence you exude around them should be present with everyone...they are just a person like everyone else.

This is not to say that I don't get AA...i definately do, especially in loud venues. If you check out my FR you'll see this.

But I still just jump into sets anyway. If I go in strong...not even high energy, just confident. It's a DHV on it's own.

There was a time where I was blown out by like 6 different girls around this one girl, and that, who was probably the 2nd hottest of the 13 or so girls i approached that night, was all into me. It didn't even matter to her that these other girls blew me off. i didn't approach them correctly. It was too low energy and hey let's talk vibe instead of yo we're gonna fuck vibe. Okay well It wasn't really blown off by the other sets. It was just bland conversation to the point where I just left the sets...But again this one girl hooked and I didn't really even say much to her. I was standing next to a door, and she was literally moving me around to better locations so we can have an easier time talking...I made out with her but I ended up leaving the set because my friends came along and they said they were bouncing to another place..and the thing remains true that your friends come before a random girl. This girl still texts me and stuff but she's not from around this area so it doesn't really matter

As a newbie/AFC hoping to become a PUA. I'd say that the MM and other tactics can help. It gives a formula to success that many newbies need to stick by in order to get going.

Natural game is what comes later (IMO) when one feels confident enough to approach and say whatever comes to his mind (i.e situation openers).

Having something to go by like a set of steps and a rehearsed routing is an ideal starting point for an AFC. I've learnt bar tricks, games, routines like the cube, ESF and C vs U smiles. I know that basically I need to open; attract her to me, attract me to her (evaluate), create rapport to get closer, etc
When I've put MM tactics to practice, I've found that girls seem interested in what I've got to say. If I approached naturally I'd be a bumbling wreck asking questions about what they do for a living and what activities they do outside of work - they'd get bored easily.

My my my... Feels like we have been down this road.

Summary:

Mystery is bad, so bad oh my how bad he is.
(I feel cool because I can now leave the MM behind.)

Just be yourself man, just be yourself.
(I am cool, just be me, it works for me)

All it takes is confidence
(I am confident so I dont have to care)



Soooooooo

My opinion:

This is a lot of bull, yes, the man is correct from a certain point of view. But from every other possible point of view, he is totally wrong. To teach someone, you have to see the world from their perspective. To tell someone to be confident is not the same as showing him a way to get there. Everyone who has learned a bit of game has the responsability to come down from their high horses and help out the ones who arent there yet. Otherwise your advice is just flexing your PU muscles in front of people who just started training to show how great you are.



This is some kind of disease that green PUAs get when they start getting the game to work for them so good that they can disregard the teachings and go by feel alone. Which is nothing but doing the exact same thing but with your own improvised material.
Hey Im just being myself... Yeah, right. The confidence you got made it possible for you to act the way you feel like acting. Which is in many ways exactly the way Mystery behaves and David DeAngelo and Sinn and Hypnotica and Adam Lyons and almost everyone who has ever got good at gaming. This is what they have been trying to tell you all along. Almost all methods end up where you can just sit around in a corner and get the girls to come to you without lifting a finger. That is the goal. The only difference between them is that you use different tools to get there before you are ready.

If Im going to NYC I can fly, take the bus, the train or my bike but I am still gonna end up in NYC.

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

Good post.

If a rock helps you drive a nail into a wall just as good as a hammer, who's to say you're wrong for using either? They both do the job?

MM- Beginners

A mix of both- Intermediate

Natural- Advanced

None of this has be mutually exclusive and keep in mind some of these guys were themselves and didn't get laid. I mix them both and see what works.

This discussion is pointless- and sadly it's like the fifth time I have seen it in a month. Can we stop with proselytizing? I realize there is a lot of ego's out there with a lot of opinions, so here, have a picture.

My opinion is this: get basic knowledge of game and women, i think in my opinion David d double your dating, review it periodically, till sinks in... Start going out and approaching women, nothing beats experience, work out, look your best... Start with ugly women, then ok women, then normal women, then hb 7, then hb8, the hb9, and then hb 10....Hang out with guys that are good naturals... Experience is the best teacher with experience comes confidence, inner game, success, calibration everything, the more you approach and the more experiences with women the better.... There is no magic pill, but if you model success then chances are you will get the same outcome...What i do not get how can people model mm, i would feel so uncomfortable doing all that stuff, it just feels weird.

I love the book the game, i know mm, works i saw the pua vh1, i saw the success with style and matador and everybody else including Cajun(one of my favorites) but in my opinion i could never do that stuff...

Guys love this debate.. Good post!

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Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction