But I please her a lot more than she pleases me.
Not because she's frigid, but because I actually really like making her tremble and controlling her from that perspective.

Is that bad though? Will there be relationship problems if I keep up this imbalance?
I make sure I do all the "pleasing" in a way where I'm leading.

Well it depends on how ways are progressing in your relationship.
I've had an experience like that so i'll share it with you :
I had a girlfriend about 2 and a half years ago which i loved pleasing, but the problem was that the sexual dynamics we had got screwed up cause the more i gave the less she gave cause she got used to me doing the work.
She was a very non sexual person, didnt know squat and didnt enjoy sex so as long as you dont see these signs you dont have a problem .

If you enjoy it, arent you in fact pleasing yourself?

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

[quote="Aegis88"]Well it depends on how ways are progressing in your relationship.
I've had an experience like that so i'll share it with you :
I had a girlfriend about 2 and a half years ago which i loved pleasing, but the problem was that the sexual dynamics we had got screwed up cause the more i gave the less she gave cause she got used to me doing the work.
She was a very non sexual person, didnt know squat and didnt enjoy sex so as long as you dont see these signs you dont have a problem .[/quote]

sounds like my ex, hot as hell but wasn't a very sexual person at all so I had to do everything. Really screwed our relationship

it never ceases to amaze me just how many women are actually very sexually selfish. there tends to be a concensus among large sections of the female population, probably due to twenty years of "clit worship" in the media, that men are simple creatures who need nothing more than a hole to pump to enjoy sex. this couldn't be further from the truth. but as the years have gone by, i have found more and more of this mindframe.

my very first sexual partner, the girl i lost my virginity to, was a sex goddess. never been another one after that. in fact, it's gone downhill as my life has progressed. i've gotten better, they've all gotten worse.

the difference is caring. take, blowjobs for instance. it ain't that hard. but many women act like it's the most grueling task on earth. in fact, i turn it down when offered now. i've only encountered two females who were into it, and they were way into it, and sex with them was better than with anyone else.

when i'm with a girl, i want to please her in every way:

manually, toys, orally, sex, whatever...

when a girl doesn't share that point-of-view, it ruins the sex life because you become convinced that:

she doesn't desire you as much as you desire her, or value you as much as you value her, or care for you as much as you care for her, or enjoy men as much as you enjoy women, etc.

it's a death knell

this is probably one of my biggest issues with women...finding one who actually gives a damn. the way a woman treats her man in the bedroom is directly indicative of how she values him, perceives him, thinks of him in general.

i don't think it's a coincidence that as men are diminished in society and reduced to second-class citizens, that women (who are easily swayed by the media and group think) would join in and complete the castration by taking away REALLY GOOD SEX.

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

I love the replies because men are answering as they should . . . on a SEXUAL SCALE. To us, 2 oranges + 2 apples equals 2 oranges + 2 apples. "I Igor~ You suck me twice, I lick you twice. You go top 5 minutes, I go top 5 minutes. You clean half room. I sleep the other half room. Grrrr . . . Halfsies good . . . "

To women, 2 apples + 2 oranges often equals 4 fruits. They perceive things on an 'emotional scale'. So offering 'sexual gratification' on an asymmetrical level will often afford you with other benefits of the relationship at an asymmetrical level. Now, I am not saying that all women give just as much as they take . . . sure, some are more takers than givers but they all have a different style of 'relationship accounting' from most men.

2 weekends ago, I found a 'female' version of a sexually "selfish man". Jeeze, it's almost embarrassing to say that she pulled the ol' 180, got on top and screamed, "I'm fucking your face, you like that? You like that? I like fucking your face." - You think she expects anything else from me? Hell, she even grabbed her own taxi home.

Last weekend's girl offered me all the porn style fluff, then during the act, kept on whispering about MY PLEASURE. . . "Everything good? What do you want me to do? You like it? Tell me how I can please you more . . " The other half was about the 'brunch' we'll have in the morning and how we will spend the ENTIRE SUNDAY together and how if I loved her, I will hold her until she woke up. I got up at 5am and found out that her front door actually locks with a key from the inside as well as the outside and she had it LOCKED.

Economic equilibrium. . . it exists in everything as long as you realize the true value in everything.

Hm. I can see both sides, but I'm definitely agreeing with Mack over Kasabi. Women today expect that they are "entitled" and that just having sex with you is all you need to make you completely happy. It's not entirely their fault, but rather media, society, the movies, and their mothers. It's the sick way men and sex are viewed today.

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Jazzy Jeff: "My love for you is like a river,
Like a summer breeze that makes my soul shiver,
One look from you is more precious than gold,
Let's grab some BBQ and go get busy!"

Oh...well.

Cya guys, I'm going to go start drinking. And then I'm going to jump off a bridge.

jesus man, don't do that.

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

Umm yeah...don't do that

got to overcome this negativity it's hurting you

^this^ is why i always give kasabi props, because he makes you "think" about what he is saying to get the point.

unfortunately, as the dumbass that i am, unless things are spelled out very specifically for me, i oftentimes completely miss the point.

kasabi, help me with the bolded part above if you can. are you saying a woman who does nothing for you in bed is more likely to, let's say, sweep the floor? or cook dinner? or pay for a set of new tires?

please forgive my daftness.

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

Has sex now become the new dollar?

Sex is supposed to be fun, not something to fight about (yes believe me I have been there too).

You and the girl have to find out what you both like, and yes sometimes you do stuff for her that she likes more than you and sometimes it is the other way around. But! As long as you are enjoying yourselves there is no problem, she will be happy and that makes life easier. (That is what the fruits equation was about I think.)

If you can not find the equilibrium, maybe you two have too different levels of sexuality or you just dont fit together sexually.

Two dominant people will have trouble finding equilibrium and two submissive people will not get much out of their sexlife either. You gotta fit sexually!



And the best way to do this is if you both enjoy pleasing your partner.

Believe me, that comes easier if you both decide that sex is not a chore, it is supposed to be fun!

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

that goes without saying.

and, actually, i don't think anybody in this thread said or implied that we are talking "tit" for "tat".

honestly, what kasabi said was common sense.

sex is not some form of currency.

but that is a far stretch from wanting your woman to:
- want you
- be aroused by you
- like to please you

if you feel as though your woman doesn't do these things, then that's a problem.

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

Again, we're proving that we're men by holding tight to the sex issue. . . lol . . . and you think women suffer from sexual hang ups?

This will be easier to explain when we take sex out of the picture for now and first discuss "negotiations". Those who are not familiar with negotiating often fail to prioritize/numeratize/monetize individual negotiable issues and thus have no way to evaluate how important each issue is to them. For example, if 10 negotiable issues are on the table, many people are happy that they receive 8 issues in their favor while compromising 2.

In real life, however, it is rare that various issues are worth the same value to two different people. For example, empty containers that are headed to Vietnam might be worthless to you. Others might be able to monetize these containers so there is value in it for them. If you want to be an effective negotiator, it is just as important to think about the issues that have value to the other party as it is to know which issues have value to you. Often times, you can freely and happily give away things that have absolutely no value to you, but by the merit of the 'quantity' of your compromises as well as the other party's perceived value for what they receive, you will receive favorable outcomes.

Are you still with me?

If so, let's now talk about sex. Any of you who have been with more than a handful of women will know that, oddly enough, women are all different. Some of them fuck like porn stars. Some think they're auditioning for a romantic movie. Others are 5 minute starfishes. I am willing to bet that you've met women who'd rather read a book. Some would rather change the oil in your car.

So, what do you do when a girl does NOT behave in a way that satisfies you? Here are some of the answers I've read thus far:

1. "Unacceptable!" = Come on guys, this is just a testosterone filled version of whining.
2. "Communicate with her. . " = Sure but how? "Please suck my dick?" = This is beggary.
3. "Hey, I got you off, now you got me off. . ." = Might sometimes work but your girl's value for 'getting off' and 'getting you off' might be completely different from yours. How would you like it if I was so happy that I made 200k off of empty containers and plopped a whole bunch in your backyard? Hey! You should be happy!

To me, the following is a better tactic:

1. Figure out and RATE the things she values.
2. Evaluate your needs and prioritize them. Allow her to know how important these things are for you.
3. Negotiate (By this, I mean simply gift the compromises that you don't care about)

Mack, you're a mechanic? You want her to suck you until it hurts? Just find a girl who's into music and tell her, "Girl, swing your car around the shop next week. I'll find some booming speakers for you." ... Then just take your pants off and see what happens. Do you want a girl to cook you dinner? Then just offer her something that she values and go get a bottle of wine. It'll be done automatically.

The idea behind what we do is not to find 'acceptable' people who 'accept' us. The idea is to find people we desire, create attraction, and carve a path that allows them to exercise their attraction to us. It takes an open mind and some awareness. Assume that everybody, even the most seemingly selfish, self absorbed people do not wish to 'feel' that way.

Having said all that, a 100 dollar gift certificate for Gap/Polo seems to be universally 'highly valued' by 20's girls all over the World.

i follow.

and that is some good insight/advice.

i guess i don't think sex should be a negotiation.

your girl should just want to suck your dick.

if she doesn't, find one that does.

lol.

am i oversimplifying?

i mean, sex is a primal need.

like air, water, food, sleep, shelter...

sex is a need.

a need to "thrive" and for your genes to "survive".

it's not like we are trading:

book club ... for ... football night

(those things are optional, and negotiable)

but sex?

every guy knows (who has ever had a good blowjob)...

that the difference between a good blowjob and a fucking horrible blowjob...

is whether the girl WANTS TO DO IT.

when a girl WANTS (as in "heavily desires") to do it,

her performance, enthusiasm, and fervor will be what gets you off.

you can't fake that, you certainly can't "negotiate" enthusiasm or desire.

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!