"We are either inherently or are now part of successful tribes, your country your nation your culture is successful. This success allows you certain freedoms and perks. It seems highly hypocritical to blame society on the nuclear family when that is clear basis of stability in it's success in the first place"

Haha... I'm reading this and I don't know what you are talking about. Half of the people are unhappy, the other half on anti depression pills. People live their lives in a "walking daze", working 5 days a week in exchange for 2 days of weekend, so they could buy junk that they don't need in the first place and with the promise of retirement at 65, if they are lucky to still be alive then, and if by then the entire system won't collapse. Our society is not successful, at least not by my standards.

But that's already a whole different discussion.

the brain and ego are useless .. they waste energy. this is true when dealing with social interactions , i see people having anxiety before approaching and they make up all these weird future scenarios.

even when you get up in the morning your probably think of stupid useless shit ... maybe some chick you banged 2 months ago or stuff like that. The brain is the only thing that is holding you back from what you really want.

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AK-47...When you absolutely positively have to kill every fucking orc in the room
questions about herbal medicine here-vp582526.html#582526

And WHAT do you really want? Monogamy? Or to run around and BANG half the girls you see, Mr PUA?

yes,

because running around in warring tribes, suffering from famine and untreated disease, with none of the creature comforts of society (you know, like heat and electricity), struggling to get a fire started in the rain, having a high chance of being mauled (or eaten) by a wild animal, being covered in lice and ticks, sleeping in huts, living a life fueled by superstition and ignorance...

sounds like SO...MUCH...FUN

laughable, lol

are you really touting 15,000 BC as a wonderful existence?

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

No, but that doesn't mean our existence is optimal, does it?

But we are smart enough to do better, to see thru the crap, whatever it is.

I never bought into the "go to university, find a job, climb up the ladder, save 10% a year, retire at 65 with some money on the side which you can no longer enjoy anyway".

So when I was 22 I started a business, reversed the script, instead of looking for a job CREATED jobs for others, and I am now retired, at 32, in case you are wondering how I can stay in Ibiza for 3 months and do nothing but sarge and work on my tan.

(I still went to university.. what a waste that was)

We can choose how to live our lives, we don't have to buy into the junk we are sold.

That's all I'm saying.

To each his own.

my brain wants to fuck everything that is walking on 2 legs ... but that doesn't make me happy.

there is no need to conform to my reptile brain,conforming creates unhappiness and suffering....lol i need a good monogamous relationship...sex is nice but it doesn't mean shit, i've even rejected sex - because i feel like i need to be with someone who has a concious in depth understanding of life and relationships.

aside from out souls and spirituality we are anchored in this body..everything comes down to balance.. accepting your nature but also being mindfull and aware of the universe.

_________________
AK-47...When you absolutely positively have to kill every fucking orc in the room
questions about herbal medicine here-vp582526.html#582526

I actually have not read the book but have just bought it off amazon so will give it a whizz no problem there. That is unless someone has it in pdf format they could *cough* lend me

I love reading new literature although I am highly cautious of buying into one or two books or ideas and preaching there enlightenment, new content to me shows how little I know and ends up with me knowing less about a whole lot more. I also have to come to my own conclusions on subjects from a balanced perspective. Which is even why I stated before that monogamy is a sexual and social armistice. And I acknowledge my animal and mental desires and the conflict they wage on us daily.

Some interesting statements are made for example : The problem I see here is that in the desired state we literally couldnt choose how to live our lives, there is no individual all motives are argued are for the betterment of the group, that would bring an end to human rights,womens lib in general. The ideals are by basis conterpoint to what society is currently pointed towards, yet uses the options it's provides to issue an edict to undermine it or prove it wrong, crazy!

IN aboriginal culture, were on a tribal level they believe reproduction is carried out buy the essence of a spirit or totem and that sex or semen has nothing to do with it again like the masai could be professed as an ideal state to be in, the group culture etc. But guess what even here they happily kill other groups and rape their women and steal their shit. It happens, society did not invent these actions, it merely labeled them and alerted us to the negative impact they have on evolving or moving forward in an attempt to control or stop them.

Back to sexual habits they are by definition evolutionary, either socially, enviromentally or both. What currently works is based off what was thought best for the current social dynamic whatever species. So at some point in the past, people suddenly realised that this system was superior to polygamous and switched, suddenly or gradually, but the change was made. Maybe society at the moment will evolve again and our sexual habits will change to reflect that situation, or we will slowly evolve into being more monogamous. I cant tell you which or what the new normal sexual 'norm' will be. But given the massive amount of freedom and allowance of individualism that modern society now provides I honestly cant see it eventually becoming polygamous, we are too selfish and the higher development of human emotions will not bend to accept these prehistoric limitations. Move on!

I would still be interested in hearing any response to the repeated question I have asked btw.[/quote]

OK good. Now look - your brains want to fuck everything with two legs... now you go into a monogamous relationship and you cannot do that, which is fine. But then a year pass, and a 2nd one, and in one point or another your reptile brain overrides your higher brain and you start to resent your partner. You will start fighting over shit that doesn't matter. You will stop being attracted to her... you will want to jerk off 10 minutes after having sex with her. Your testosterone level will drop, you will become unhappy.

Unfortunately our lower brains always "win". You can't hold your breath for more than a 40-50 seconds, can you? Doesn't matter what your higher brain wants, in the end your lower brains will kick in and you will grasp for air, involuntary.

It's the same thing with your sexual desires.

Bill Clinton is a smart guy I would say. If he can't control his lower brain, risking US PRESIDENCY in the process, what chance do any of us have?

off to the gym

P.S - who said all I'm looking for is sex? MLTR can give you everything else too. In the last month I've done nothing but experiment with it, exploring my feelings while maintaining a few relationships. So far - its been great. I've never been happier.

actually 160 seconds is my record...

_________________
AK-47...When you absolutely positively have to kill every fucking orc in the room
questions about herbal medicine here-vp582526.html#582526

That would be sad but there is nothing I would be able to do about it and she should do whatever makes her happy. And this could happen also in a monogamous relationship... (no girl left a guy in a monogamous relationship?) it would just me less shocking, there would be less anger and less negative emotions. Assuming you are poly, you are not as dependent on one person and you have a wider emotional support, it would be easier to deal with than if you would be in a monogamous relationship and that one person decides to leave you.

As to your other questions - people can have sex without pill and no condoms and I don't understand the whole point of the question. People raise children of others... look at Brat Pitt and AJ or any person who ever adopted... It would be the decision of the girl if to keep the baby or not and why would you assume responsibly for it if its not yours?

What's wrong with behavioral/cultural changes due to "artificial" changes/advancements in technology? Are you suggesting that International trade should be dropped because this act can only be accomplished due to invention of ships? Using 'higher chance of impregnation' as evidence for your argument is weak because 'higher chance of impregnation' simply does not exist. This is like saying that you wouldn't be happy to shit in your house if toilets didn't exist. Toilets exist. So do contraceptives.

Mostly, the OP is just happy and excited over his new found path. Nothing wrong with that. And it doesn't seem like he's making a case that this 'poly_____' is for everybody. . . it isn't.

Not really Kasabi, international trade is a product of the culture or system currently in place, it wouldnt go against the system that allows it to flourish and helps work. It would be artificial in the sense that I mean if you had trade in a system with no ownership, goods or property of any sort, some one mentioned that all of that WAS a product of society, the same way that emotions are (which I do strongly disagree with). Im probably not explaining what I mean clearly in that context.

Artificial in the sense a community/culture/whatever uses anothers cultures system/benefits/ against it to proclaim theirs is a better system/superior (again I must stress that im not saying the guys in this thread are saying that, im just giving an example as a way to reach clarification).... For example some tribal guy buying materials from a wholesale store and using them to blow it up because he cant compete on price when selling his goods. That probably doesnt make sense either but im better verbally speaking that writing sorry .

All im trying to say is yes maybe this was the norm 40,000 years ago before communities expanded, but for whatever reason this current arrangement was seen as the better choice, if people were to turn their backs on what society has created and engage in free wheeling love and the idea that living in huts in ignorance then you have to take away all the benefits that the previous level of culuture allows, which brings up some of the issues I have tried to query... ie sti's, increased murder rate in a polygamos tribe like the masai, the lack of regards for right and wrong among the abiriginal tribes regarding murder, free rape and stealing of other tribes belongings and females. Yes our culture society has these problems as well but it does have the key difference of trying to instill these actions as being counter productive to our species as a whole and doesnt accept them as everyday life ignoring them.

I am also not judging or saying it's wrong way to live - people are free to live how they want in todays society (thats one of it's perks) just that I doubt it will become the norm. As I said previously infact I have ordered the book phangan referred too to read, im asking questions to get an understanding of how a person in this situation deals with certain problems and to offer different views to see how they respond to it. Monogamy isnt perfect I know that, no system is im trying to understand their perspectives on it, I am certainly not the kind of person who blindly accepts what others say I query the hell out of it offer counter arguments to see what they say to refute it, im also fairly open minded and willing to change if an outlook is correct at that time.

@Phangan more questions if you dont mind

Given your current financial situation, would you feel this system would be easily as maintainable as an average working 'joe'?

Your stance on children, if you had children and your partner moved on what ramifications would that be for you?emotionally et all for them.


If you didnt have access to condoms would you be so willing to participate in this life style? or would it simply slow you down ie, waiting for medical tests before sleeping with someone?

Do you have favourites? Do other women get emotionally attached to you.

How do you deal with jealousy?

Whats the longest polyamorous relationship you have had or anyone for that matter.

The question here is not what was the norm... the question is what is out natural state, to what state our BODY and lower brains are designed for. Because if you're planning on living your life against that "natural state" - expect friction.

I'll use some other examples, maybe you'll think they are stupid. I decided not to use aircon here in Ibiza, even that it's really freaking hot. Why? Because I don't like being "comfortably numb". It's summer - I want to FEEL that it's summer. I want to sweat. I want my body to feel the cycles of the passing seasons. When you sleep with aircon every night it fucks up your joints and you usually don't feel that you are thirsty and you don't drink enough so you get kidney stones.... fuck aircon... it fucks up the ozone layer too

Another example - food. We eat industrialized processed junk for most of our lives, meat from cows which were fed with corn instead of grass etc. These foods lack many of the nutrients that our body badly needs like Omega 3. They are now saying that one of the main reason for the Cancer epidemic (is there anybody here who DOESN'T know someone who had cancer? I had 3 in my immediate family - and there are just 5 of us) is lack of Omega 3 in our foods.

So what I'm saying is that we should aspire to live our lives as "naturally" as we can (in the examples above - no aircon, organic foods) working WITH our body and not against it. If it's the food we eat, the way we live, how we run our relationships...


This is not some new age crap, it's just common sense. Our bodies were designed to hunt and gather food... not sit all day in front of the computer, right? So go out, run, do sports... go to the gym...

And have sex... lots of sex.

off to the gym....................................

I'll get back to your questions later.

just to butt in for a second on the convo...

i don't have a problem with open relationships, actually, on some level i respect and envy people who can do that. i am certainly NOT morally opposed to people living that way. and as to rye lee (who started this thread) i have major respect for the way he described it and the thoughtfulness he has put into deciding what works for him in life. he gets major "high-fives" for that.

my issue is with people going from talking up open relationships to talking down monogamy.

i understand that monogamy is not easy and doesn't work for many people, but there ARE people who are naturally monogamous and happy living that way. i am one of them. i have always been that way. it's not conditioning, i always want to return to one woman and be with her, build a bond with her, share things with her that no one else does. that is how i am.

and just as i don't bash people who choose open relationships.

i would think that some of the "enlightened" voices in this thread, would return the same favor.

to some extent, monogamy IS natural, or it wouldn't be happening every day. everything we do as humans is natural. even the ways that society has progressed is a natural progression.

also, and AGAIN, NOT ALL PEOPLE ARE THE SAME.

what works for person A will not always work for person B

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what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!