This is fairly accurate, yet it's a little more like she is attracted to a different kind of man because her life situation has been altered and she needs something different. This is what would happen normally if we were still living in "the wild" without human intervention into our hormonal systems as well. Due to the interference of pharmaceuticals and social belief systems regarding what is right and wrong regarding relationships and mating, thinking that we are above the animal kingdom and should create a new "ethical" system of how we should behave our very cores are in direct opposition to what we feel and desire.

What would be so wrong about the couple not needing to stay together? Why is this a "bad" thing? Why do we fight against these feelings and not want these people to separate and find other partners to continue on with in a happier state?

_________________
"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Polyamory is so outside of normal conventions, it's obvious it would be very hard for most people to accept it or even imagine it possible...

My question is why frame the relationship as polyamorous and not simply as a friend with benefits and have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy rather than just put everything on the open...

"Can we meet tomorrow?"
"No, I'm meeting my other boyfriend..."
"Ah ok, cool, so what about Monday?"

I just don't see the point....

need to correct something ..

"lets meet tommorrow!"
"No, I'm meeting my other boyfriend..."
'' fuck him .. lets meet up saturday ''

_________________
AK-47...When you absolutely positively have to kill every fucking orc in the room
questions about herbal medicine here-vp582526.html#582526

Perhaps I should start running workshops on the concepts and ideals that allow for a healthy mentality and happy life while engaging in a poly lifestyle. To be honest I think that polyamory is actually far more "normal" (that word really has to true definition just so we're clear) than monogamy. Most people don't settle down for just one person in their lives and they find ways either through cheating, breaking up, divorces, "that didn't really count"s, intimate yet not sexual relationships and a whole slew of other situations that are completely contrived and engineered to give people as close to what they want as they can get while still trying to please the stereotypical "normal" lifestyle they want people to think they are leading.

There are so many silly beliefs that people have around what is "ok", that they close themselves to what they truly want out of life and tell themselves that they don't want those things. We tell ourselves that we should be hurt if someone wants to spend time with someone else and not with us when we want to be with them. Yesterday I told a girl I don't get offended by that stuff and would rather she tell me that she doesn't want to see me cause she's busy doing something else cause that's way less annoying than me trying to set up plans and her being evasive cause she wants to spend time with her more serious relationship partner. I got a great message today from a girl in another city that I'm seeing and she told me all about her camping adventure with her bf and her other friends; it made me super happy listening to the fun they had together and imagining her having sex with another guy doesn't bother me at all cause I know she's happy and wants to share that feeling with me rather than hide it from me.

Yeah, it's not easy to just suddenly adopt a polyamorous lifestyle and you have to change a few of your core beliefs about what relationships are and what enjoyment you are truly getting from them. If you've ever been in a situation though where you felt like boundaries were hampering your fun and you could enjoy life more without holding back then making some changes is a fantastically rewarding! If you've ever felt guilty cause you weren't honest with people about what you were up to, then being open and being loved for it instead is pretty sweet! If you keep getting into relationships and finding that none of them are perfect enough to satisfy you, then perhaps the problem isn't the relationship, perhaps it's the fact that no single person will ever give you that complete feeling you're after and being with multiple people will.

Perhaps it's a bit of hard work to make it happen and make it work WELL...although I was under the impression that the people who came to this forum were actually interested in changing things that they don't like in order to be happier in life? I thought you already did have to put some effort into changing a few things and you managed to do that? I thought you weren't afraid of a little effort...but perhaps I was wrong?

_________________
"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

I agree with everything you said.

I've been with a girl who I first met five years ago, we met in my country a few months ago and finally slept together, but she is from another country and she has a boyfriend back home... so she was cheating on him with me.

I kept telling her (and it was the truth) that I don't mind that she has a boyfriend back home, that I'm happy that someone is there to take care of her and love her, and that we should just be lovers and that it is fine with me, even that I really have feelings for her.

She basically thought that I'm "crazy" and didn't understand why I wasn't jealous....when in fact the truth is that SHE is "crazy" (cheating on her bf with me....) while I was being mature / non jealous / non judgmental / 100% moral in comparison to her behavior.

What is considered "normal" is just SCREWED UP in so many ways, once you open your eyes to the truth it's just hard to believe you didn't see it before.


That being said, I'm still not sure why your girl had to tell you about she being with her BF, she could have just said "I was with my friends" and that wouldn't be a lie or anything.... why do you need to have this picture in your head of her being fucked by some other guy? Does that turn you on? I can imagine it does...


If she is CHEATING on her BF with you, that's different and it actually makes it worse because it's a form of "conspiracy", the two of you behind his back.... that would make her telling you about her BF more about her having a power trip playing the field like that... do you know what I mean?

I actually have a problem with girls who cheat on their boyfriends... if she does it to someone else, don't be surprised if she later does it to you. It shows weak character, lack of moral, of values. You don't want to be with your BF? Then dump him. Or open the relationship. Whatever... but cheating behind the back is BAD. I actually lost a lot of respect to this girl from the above story for cheating with me on her BF.


Life is so complicated... why don't we get a manual or something... that would make things so much easier. We have to keep writing the rules as we go. Schools are useless, our parents are useless, TV is useless.... what am I saying here?

I don't know.

Good night from Ibiza, going out sarging.

The way I see it is that people have two sides to them, their animal side and their higher intelligence or code of standards if you will. They dont always agree infact it's a constant battle for which drives our decisions.

On the one side mens basic drive is to mate with multiple women in an attempt to spread his dna but there is conflict with his higher consciousness for companionship and stability for his offspring thereby ensuring their survival. Mating habits are in some respect similar to the Cockoo. A male would happily keep his own female secure from interference while at the time attempting to if possible discretely impregnate other females ie leaving his 'egg' in anothers nest. This ties in with the sperm wars reference that the majority of his sperm is there to kill any other males to ensure his dna is passed as pregnancy begins and all other sexual encounters results become moot.

On the other end of the scale a females primary drive is to secure a mate who can protect and provide for herself and her offspring. And Also to find a mate to provide the best possible genetic material for her children to ensure a competitive advantage. These two drives are not necessarily mutually inclusive. Which leans into favour and highlights the sperm wars reference again. The more inferior a provider the higher the rates are for the male having a chance of not being the biological parent.

The accepted average is that 1 in 25 men are unknowingly providing for a child that is not theirs. I believe a study was carried out at Liverpool University highlighting this issue again pointing to a higher ratio for couples with poorer backgrounds and lesser ratios for couples with secure or superior backgrounds. Again highlighting a female having to settle for less than the alpha male as provider but still actively seeking out that superior DNA.

The way relationships work fall into the most stable accepted method for mankind in it's current state. Other species approach the same problem in different ways for example a New Alpha Male lion in a pride will ruthlessly exterminate any opposition with rival dna it cannot mate with, once secure he (or sometimes brothers) will then have free reign over the females ensure theirs and only thier dna is passed on. Other species have developed intensive pair bonding restricting their mating habits.

Some of the reactions of members on here echo the 'status quo', which you may genuinely believe is a constriction of society but is infact a careful balance of our animal instincts and higher intelligence. For example the unwillingness of members to accept another male having intercourse with their females, given the results of said encounters would in effect reduce the amount of children that could be theirs, limiting the number of times they successfully can pass on their DNA to the successive generation.

A balanced approach would be to agree, citing the risk of opening yourself up to greater chances of STD's, emotional damage and becoming a non biological parent. As I stated before Animal instincts and Higher Intelligence battle for my soul if you will. As I cannot judge you for wanting to live a certain life style as I would expect you to do the same for myself.

At best I can call your choice of polyamory artificial. Before you respond please hear me out. It is artificial in the respect that you are free to do so, due to contraception. Answer me honestly would you fully pursue this sexual lifestyle If contraceptives - condoms and the pill and abortion were not available? That is to say your partner being fully available to impregnation by another man and then raising said child and also the chance of acquiring STI's?

I am not poly-amorous, I am just a man who is aware of the sexual drives of myself and women. But I am also accepting of the hypocrisy revolving around dealing with women in the sexual armistice that is 'monogamy'. It's not perfect but is the most stable from a basic animal perspective, knowing that the offspring are more than likely yours and also from an intelligent perspective maintaining some semblance of balance emotionally and physically without social meltdown.

You are saying polyamory is artificial because of condoms and pills, because allegedly we need to KNOW that the offspring is ours.

Not true.


Back in the day, nobody cared about "who the father is" as the entire tribe would take care of each other regardless of family ties, there was no personal property and nobody owned anything, including not each other.

So there were no condoms but there were also no consequences for impregnating a woman - the two things cancel each other out. What is artificial is what you see around you - monogamy - which was created in order to develop and maintain large permanent settlements and for wealth to be passed between generations.

Having a "higher brain" is what allows you to understand that despite the fact that you see monogamy all around you - in fact that is the UNnatural way for us.

What you do with this information is another story.

Wait, lets think about this for a moment...

Do you really think that 15,000 years ago "boys" and "girls" would "find each other", discover that they like each other, start snuggling, walk around holding hand in hand, writing love poems to each other and then decide that they should be going into some LONG TERM / LIFE LONG agreement to be with each other???

Then there was a ceremony and the "groom" would kiss the "bride" and they would go on a HONEYMOON? And stay together UNTIL DEATH DO THEM PART?

And then two years later, the "couple" started fighting, they would go to therapy, start cheating on each other... sometimes... sometimes they would divorce and go "on the market" again for a 2nd round.....

REALLY ????

We are talking 15,000 years ago !!!!!!! 20,000 years ago! 50,000 years ago !!!


JESUS how can ANYBODY think that monogamy existed WHEN WE HARDLY HAD LANGUAGE ???

We were dirty, monkey looking, stinky, hungry homo sapiens with a brain we didn't make much use of, living in big tents, hunting gathering, fucking each other more or less freely, not even knowing that the consequence of our fucking is what 9 months later results with a baby.


To think that monogamy is natural, to me, is simply insanity.

We did not originate from the monkeys - WE ARE MONKEYS.


They used to say the world is flat... this is just another one of those silly beliefs.

Again - what you decide to do with this information is a whole different story. But know that the whole concept of long term relationships goes against our natural behavior and instincts.

actually there is 0 % proof we are related to monkeys ...

quote
''More than 98 percent of all DNA, was called "Junk DNA" by molecular biologists, because they were unable to ascribe any function to it. They assumed that it was just "molecular garbage". If it were "junk", the sequence of the "syllables", i.e. the nucleotides in DNA should be completely random''
there is 0 % proof we descended from monkeys or neanderthalers...
they found sumerian writing in amerika....
you guys are just throwing back and forth your own ignorant beliefs...

there is proof we had languages...15.000 years ago...but it doesn't matter .. who cares .. it's 2011 we are not living in 15.000BC

Actually i find it hilarious that people think we are evoluted....i think we are devoluted - devolution.... we don't know anything about history. We just found some retarded primitive neanderthalers in ice, and suddenly we believe it's the truth. For a fact carbon dating does contain a large room for errors just like DNA sequencing, im no professional but that doesn't mean i have to believe what is presented to me by retarded goverments and religious institutions who are lying to people anyway. everything you are been told is theory anyway - not fact.

i think monogamy isn't unnatural...

what if both monogamy and polygamy are unnatural ?

or what if they both are natural ?

ever thought of that instead of defending theoretical standpoints ?

if you think people should only follow their nature only you might as well go live in africa .. i don't know if you like all the rape and murder but hey.. nature is nature right ?

_________________
AK-47...When you absolutely positively have to kill every fucking orc in the room
questions about herbal medicine here-vp582526.html#582526

i was with one woman for over a decade.

i was completely committed to her, faithful, and short of appreciating other women, had no intent to have sex with anyone else.

does my opinion count?

by the way, it is also human nature to:

- kill
- steal
- rape
- bang underage chicks
- be lazy
- etc

would it be enlightened to walk those paths? because it would be indulging one's TRUE nature?

also, in your zeal, you have completely discounted the fact that people can be different. not everyone is the same.

_________________
what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

+ 1

this is good stuff.

humans are a combination of our higher selves and our primal selves.

i'm with a woman now, and i told her flat out, that every woman i see during the day, i picture naked, gagging on my cock, with me blasting her from behind till she faints.

BUT

i also really value the emotional/friendship/trust/intimacy/security/safety/love that comes with a monogamous relationship. (aka - higher self)

_________________
what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

mack is hated by the catholic church... ah .. such a enlightened religious community, at least you will be the new jezus when they crucify you.

lol by the way i 'wasn't wearing glasses .. ''i was with one woman for over a decade. '' i read something like i was a woman for a decade i was like WTF for real ? lol...

the one thing all humans do the most is lying..people even lie to themselfs..even my eyes lie gdi...

_________________
AK-47...When you absolutely positively have to kill every fucking orc in the room
questions about herbal medicine here-vp582526.html#582526

Tribally im afraid you will find examples in todays tribal cultures that most tribes from an anthropological stand point practice marriage ceremonies or ritual betrothal of some sort and have for thousands of years. For example Both sex's circumcised on the same day (yes some tribes practice female circumcision) or by agreement between parents or the elders on chosen spouses from an early age.

Also females were traded between tribal groups as a way to inject new genetic material into it. Obviously this would be slightly frowned upon in todays 'society' which i'll include in my final point.

The reason for this practice is to promote stability within the society or the tribe and reduce friction and violence. Believe it or not on a tribal level this was highly sought after resolution. Tribes were not some point or place were fantastic orgies and swinging took place, in fact it was actively discouraged. You are correct tribes worked towards the greater good, infact women were/are forced to marry a specific person or were traded to other tribes - women had little say in who their partners/mate/husband would be on occasion. This was the precursor to the entities of 'state' and 'family'. Nations today are simply a refined system in place but the basis is the same although with a lot more leeway for individualism (and also selfishness).

Now what you could refer to is the masai tribe in africa were again... amazingly have marriage their, as long as they of a similar age. HOWEVER any member of the tribe is allowed to partake of others wives. Rule of thumb is a tribal male would plant his spear outside the hut of the female and bang the shit out of her. If the husband returned and saw a spear he would go for a walk or go chat or generally wait. This is a good example of what you are trying to express I believe. They have only been practicing this for a few hundred years though.

Masai are very secretive they do not like talking about their habits and rituals and taboos. However there is a tiny problem which is known about within the community, I hinted at above and in the previous posts, the masai tribe has a high rate of ... lets call it accidental death among the males hunting or otherwise. Or to put it frankly murder of males in sexual relationships or emotional relationships inside and outside of marriage.

This ties in with the main reasons for 'murder' - Love, Crime of Passion, Jealousy, Revenge money. Notice how most of these are closely related.

One could argue that in successful tribes human breeding generally occurs within the nuclear 'family'. 'Morality' it can be said has been developed over time to further protect this institution. We are either inherently or are now part of successful tribes, your country your nation your culture is successful. This success allows you certain freedoms and perks. It seems highly hypocritical to blame society on the nuclear family when that is clear basis of stability in it's success in the first place, which in turn allows you to use these perks (cars, contraception, medicine etc) to practice a different model which is either artificial, untested or unsuccessful - honestly I have no idea which.

As for comparing us to being monkey's I aint gonna get into creationalism/intelligent design/evolution argument. Just because another species similar or related to us practices a certain sexual or relationship model does not mean we are the same or copy them - why the hell would we?? we are a superior species top of the food chain. As I said before Lions are similar to other cats, tiger whatever. Lions work in prides or families, with one or two dominant males who kill all other rivals and retain mating rites until ousted. Tigers, cheetahs or whatever are solitary... related but completely different breeding habits - really is a moot point

All that said and done I honestly have no problem with however people are sexually or how you practice relationships. Infact I admire your altruistic motives and beliefs behind it all, but people are people - we have emotions, jealousy, love passion no matter what you say, because of these emotions it will never work in society as a whole.

I have also not seen a response to the whole would your relationship still work with no pills/condoms/medicine? would you be happy raising another mans child after he had spunked up your partner, because you said it's cool? Or if she suddenly left you for another man that you allowed to bang her?

bravo!!! +1,000,000

for being actually informed

_________________
what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

This is ALREADY the result of an unnatural social structure. When there is no ownership - there is no jealousy. These tribes are already very advanced socially, the only difference between us and them is technological. I'm talking way way back in the day of hunting gathering.

I think you did read sex at dawn... did you? Why don't you refer to the rest of the material? For example that Chinese society where the women have their rooms facing to the street and any man can just walk up to the room, have sex with the girl, and then the whole family raises the child together?

Even CONSERVATIVE scientists consider us to be "semi polygamous". Read the material.

Mack your opinion does count, so after 10 years, if we are monogamous, why aren't you happily married + ?

"by the way, it is also human nature to:

- kill
- steal
- rape
- bang underage chicks
- be lazy"

No, it is not. These are ills which are the result of the unnatural society in which we live in. Rape, bang underaged chicks? The result of our sexual oppression (of both sexes) and the unnatural "arrangements" we are living with.

Mack you look at other chicks? If we were BIOLOGICALLY monogamous, if our body and mind was designed to find one person to mate with for LIFE, don't you think that something would have "clicked" in your head and your desire for other women would disappear?

It's like if you eat a meal, your brain tells you "you are not hungry now... don't eat more". Why isn't it the same with our sexual desires? That is, if we are monogamous - our brain would have been designed to tell "stop, you are satisfied... don't look... don't waste energy looking at other women, now go use your precious energy to build a hut".

Our eye doesn't follow other women for no reason. Your brain tells you "I want this". Our brain doesn't waste energy.

But we do look.... and we do want to bang other chicks. And our chicks do want to be banged by other men.

"But that's OK! Looking is OK! Looking is normal! Everybody is LOOKING. It's just LOOKING! And everybody wants to BANG others... it's OK as long as we DON'T! do it !"

Haha....

Yes, higher brain... you can decide logically to reject your real desires, for whatever reason, that's cool. Good luck man, I mean it.



[/b]