This is not a post that a lot of people will agree with, but it may be the best advice you have read in a long time. In life we all have natural abilities and natural weaknesses due mainly to genetics. Not everyone can be a great basketball player, musician, or writer. Yes the average person could strive many hours and have the best trainers, but they may never have the potential to be very talented. I am sure we all know someone who has spent years trying to be good at a sport. Practicing way more than us, but could barely beat us at their sport, or maybe not even at all. How many of us spent extra hours studying for a subject and many visit a tutor when some guy in class doesn't even have to study to pass. Let's look at some extreme examples directly related to pickup. Could someone with a case of mental retardation walk into a bar and pickup a beautiful girl..no. What about a midget, could you picture him taking some girls hand and taking her in the bathroom for a blowjob...again no. What about a fat disgusting truck driver. What clever line will he use to pick up your sister. Or maybe he will have great body language....as he can hardly walk. How about great vocal tonality in between his heavy breathing. Nice smile...some of them drool a little to much. Of course you and her friends won't cock block her. You will have no problem letting your sister go home with him. Do you think your parents won't have a problem with your 18 year old sister's choice? Your natural physical looks is the number one thing that has a limit on your potential. Most other things about you can be improved drastically. Your height and facial structure are not changeable. Therefore you may never have the potential to be a good seducer or player. People need to have realistic goals when it comes to women.

The sad thing is a lot of pickup companies try to sell you the idea that anyone can get good.

..."This is power so strong that it allows seemingly "average" guys,(regardless of age, income, or appearance) to achieve remarkable results..."-Mehow

So maybe your 300 pound friend could learn Mehow's stuff and be your wing man at the bars, and you both can bring home two pretty girls.

This may be the best advice you have read in a long time about dating and seduction. This could save you from wasting years trying to learn game and figuring out all of these strategies to get hot girls. There are many guys on pua forums who have been studying pick up for years with little to no success. Some of the reason for the lack of success is the theories and tactics they are studying, and some of it is the limit to their natural potential. Be honest with yourself. Take a real look in the mirror. It may be time to chill out and enjoy other aspects of life. Have fun and make some real friends. Cookout and go swimming at the lake. Maybe you should spend more time with that cute girl who has liked you for years and stop wasting your time in clubs trying to get one night stands. At the same time improve yourself as much as possible. Make no excuses. Peak to your full potential, but try to figure out what your potential in this game really is. If you are naturally ugly and short you need to change your focus on becoming great boyfriend material. Focus more on social circles and go to clubs once in a while just to approach and grow your confidence. Social circles give you time to win a girl with other qualities, and with time she can overlook your looks. You probably have the potential to get a cute girlfriend. You probably could never be a seducer who bangs 50 cute girls a year. A perfect "10" may be out of your league. Of course somebody out there despite his natural bad looks has a "10" for a girlfriend, but they are the exception. Do you want to spend your life hoping you will win the lottery and score that perfect "10." Or maybe you should realize it will never happen and be happy with that "8." Stop wasting your precious time and money chasing a fantasy.

Yes there is an upper limit to everything. Yes you will eventually max out your abilities.

But you don't know where that upper limit is. In order to acheive all that is possible you must strive for the impossible.

You can call yourself short, fat and ugly and sit at home playing video games and eating pizzas getting fatter and more pathetic. Or you can put that time and energy into improving your health, vitality, appearance and game and actually go out and bring home a nice lady.

In all things in life the higher your standards the more work you are going to have to put in and the lower the quantity of returns you are going to have. If you set your sights on only pulling tens, you are going to have fewer successes than if you go for 5s.

But if you are satisfied with 5s and don't want to put in the effort and the frustrations of chasing 10s then why do it?

in many ways short, fat, ugly people have just as much sex and just as many partners throughout their lives as beautiful people. the difference is beautiful people hook up with other beautiful people and ugly people hook up with ugly people and average Joes hook up with average Janes.

The love and support and the orgasms are all pretty much the same.

This post is pure bs, you can be good at whatever you want to be good at, if you model someone that is successful doing it.. Michael Jordan was a horrible basketball player for years and he became awesome... I met people that never got good at anything because they QUIT....In your example the Fat guy, could get good at pick up, by losing weight, learning game, dressing nice, bringing the best in him, but will not happen overnight...

_________________
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http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

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No. I wasted my time chasing the one girl(s) I wanted. I spoke, I jumped at her feet, laid her on the pedestal and paid dearly for it only to discover there were other women at my disposal. Never again will I chase one girl. I might set her above others, yes, but that doesn't mean I can't go flirting with other women somewhere else. Everyone deserves a try, everyone that can be qualified to try, that is. Like Here2play said, you can either fall into a meager worthless existence of being lazy, fat and irresponsible. Or you can strive for victory and work your ass off at work, and at the gym and at the same time work on social skills. Make the commitment to throw video-games and internet to the side for once and go out and talk to people. The line practice makes perfect makes sense in this regard. I used to be a little overweight back in 2006-2009. I met nice girls, yes, they became my friends. But never more than that. Time and time again I was thrown into the friend zone. But I refused to accept my lot in life, so I worked out and lost weight and I am still doing it. I got to makeout with women I never thought I would be able to do and I got dates when I thought my social skills were crappy.

Practice makes perfect, you don't learn to ride a bike just by watching someone doing it on tv or reading about it in a book, you go out and do it yourself. You are going to get cut, bruised and even fall, but the key to success is picking yourself up and soaking in the glory of pain, knowing well that you're going to get use to it and pull through. It's not about being yourself, it's about being the best of yourself.

In the end, fancy gimmicks and pick up lines won't grant you the things you can get if you didn't use them. I don't agree with all of the PUA stuff, but I realize there is some truth beneath the deception. A lot of things hit home and if a man doesn't understand them, he can sure as hell get on that bike and try it out.

_________________
"If you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried."

Totally agree with ya man. Practice, practice practice and hard work. Hell I hit on chicks I am not even into just to hone my skills.

I'll try to offer constructive criticism:

1. You assume all guys study pickup just to get one night stands at the club. This isn't true. Some men just want to get over their fear of talking to women, and once they get that far they go back to their own ways, knowing they can at least introduce themselves to someone without an anxiety attack. Some guys look for the long term relationship, and figure the more women they meet, the greater the odds of finding a compatible match. Some want to hook up with a different girl every night to validate their existence. All of these are possible, and I really don't care what someone does as long as they don't harm others.

2. Your comparison to the NBA is a bit off. Let's face it, professional basketball players make up an incredibly small percentage of people who play basketball, and there's a lot you can do with practice. You can be a terrific physical defender, excellent 3 point shooter, or be an athletic passer. Yeah, you may never be an NBA MVP, but isn't it true that you can be good at something without being the best? It is true that we won't all become "mPUAs," but we can all improve.

3. You are correct in that some people go overboard, even though it was wrong to make a sweeping generalization. I go out to have fun, and if I see a cute girl along the way, I know I can talk to her and possibly get to know her better. That is as opposed to being a terrified pussy that will wait until a woman comes to him. You say that's the girl that's been in love with you for years? We do not live in a romantic comedy, those guys, the AFCs, often end up with horrible women because they lack the self-confidence to believe they can be with a woman who will treat them well, with respect.

4. The little sister point has no validity. You assume all pua's and students are just lying manipulators, and that's not true. Sadly some guys do think of routines and tell "DHV stories" that are flat out lies. They tell a girl they love them when there are 3 other girls hearing the same thing. They will do anything for sex, and have no respect for anyone. That is not a PUA, that is an asshole. My sister is also smart enough not to fall for that pathetic bull.

5. What's your problem with midgets?

6. Finally, you are actually right, the guys that sell dvds, books, and seminars, well a lot of them are only interested in money. So they market, and marketing isn't always 100% honest. But they also paint a picture that doesn't represent all of us. Not all guys who learn pickup want to live the rockstar life. Some of us are just tired of standing against a wall at a party watching everyone else have fun while we are too concerned about what people will say if we go dance with a girl.

You don't have to study pickup, you don't even have to like it, but if you even read other posts with an open mind you'd see a lot of people here are just worried they are letting life pass them by.

djz good good!!!!!! right on!

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

here2play- Were you agreeing with me? I said get as good as you can, but some guys(not all) need to realize their limit. You don't want to look back and realized you spent countless hours studying pickup and going out to practice when you weren't getting better in the first place. Imagine the other things you could of done with that time.

skills360- Maybe you should start modeling jordan and become as good as him...then you could get lots of girls. Yes i do think most fat guys can get in much better shape, but i was using that as an example that looks can be a limit. I figured if i used people who had looks that could not be changed such as a midget or crippled person as an example people would get offended. By the way i have absolutely nothing against midgets or anyone with a disability.

Anti-lover13- This post might not be directed to you. That is why i said "MAYBE YOU.." I wrote this after winging with a couple naturally ugly people who couldn't do much about their looks. Their "game" , style, confidence, etc, was just as good or better than mine at the time. However i was getting way more girls than them. One particular guy said he approached around 1,500 girls and only laid 2 unatractive ones. Their looks limited them, and to this day one of them continues to chase a fantasy.
I am glad you are having success in the dating world! And you are right that you should never chase one girl. I was simply saying some people should not be afraid to settle down with a sure thing. The grass is not always greener on the other side.

M2- Honestly how are things working out for you?

DJ_Z-
1. Please reread my post. I know for a fact guys study this for many different reasons. The post was not written to every pua. I simple use 1 night stands as an example of something that may not be acheivable for certain people.
2. I already said to improve as much as possible. But some guys in this game will spend years chasing after the fantasy of being a mpua even thou it is impossible for them. Do you see what i'm saying?
3. I was simple giving an example, obvisouly i'm talking about a girl that a person may have strong feelings for, but is to busy trying to be a pua.
4. No i don't assume all pua's are manipulators. You miss the point completely. The point is no matter how much game someone has most girls just may not be physically attracted to that person and therefore not give them the time of day. Also most parents want what they consider the best for their daughter, and that sometimes excludes people based on looks.
5. No problem. Yet again this is an example of something that could be a limit.
6. Believe me brother i have read a lot of posts and blogs. Plus i have real life experience. Some guys worry about life passing them by and then they get absorbed in the pua game and life really does pass them by.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to practice pickup for hours and not become better at it.
I just don't believe you here... I just don't think their style, confidence etc where better at the time.

And as a final point. I really dislike the fact that you bring a totally negative vibe onto the forum here. You said: "might be the best advice ever". Well, if someone tells me that I need to stop improving myself, and stop looking for ways to be a better and bigger person". Then i wouldn't describe it as the best advice ever... Just sayin.

Im 5'5, and weigh 50kg at 18 years of age.

I have seduced and banged two 10s, and that is no exaggeration. Every guy Ive met would rate them as at least a 9.

Im not even offended by your attempt at advice, because It blatantly is not true.

Maybe if you have a severe disability, yes. You have some sort of "limit"...but I truly mean severe, Im talking missing limb shit, or having a siamese conjoint twin permanently.

Otherwise man, height, facial structure, "strength"...whatever. Its irrelevant.
Do not listen to this mans post, fellas. Haha, I PROMISE that any "physical limitations" can be overcome with sheer confidence, and offset with good game.

Believe me. If I can do it, you can too...just trust me

JamesO.

I don't mean any offenseto you, but you sound like you have a little of a 'victim' mentality. Maybe you've had some bad experiences when using some of the advice you've read, or you have listened too much to people telling you that women just like good looking fellas. Throughout our lifetimes we will get so much advice on millions of topics, but maybe it's up to ourselves to filter out the BS from the good by analyzing the advice.

I think our sex drive is linked to reproduction, having healthy children, but as 'emotions are just instincts we can feel' (I believe), we attach emotion to it.

I think I understand that you believe good looking women are attracted to naturally good looking guys.

This is what I believe: Guys (naturally) like what they consider to be good looking women because of their reproductive value (they are more likely to have healthy, genetically sound ofspring).

Ask yourself what a woman would need in a man to increase the chances of her being able to bring up healthy children to an adult age.

I think she would need a man who is physically strong so he can protect them, AND/OR socially powerful (confident) so that he has the backing of his friends. Also she would need her mate to stick around after the children are born, so she would have to believe he is somewhat loyal. If a guy is just good looking he could easily just hook up with another woman and leave them. I don't believe that being good looking is all that important.

I know some religious people don't believe the evolutionary ideas I believe in, but this is usually the thought process I go through when taking advice on this sort of topic.

I'll stop waffling now LOL

sarging-without-stairs-vt31690.html?highlight=madals

Bam. Seriously, read that. Pick up is so much more than what you beginners always think of as laying a different girl every night like in the movies.

It's about serious self-improvement. Madals is proof of what hard work can get you. There are no true disabilities/disadvantages but your self-imposed mental limitations.

JAMES O READ THE CAPS NEXT TO YOUR REPLIES, NOT YELLING THIS IS HOW I ANSWER:

here2play- Were you agreeing with me? I said get as good as you can, but some guys(not all) need to realize their limit. You don't want to look back and realized you spent countless hours studying pickup and going out to practice when you weren't getting better in the first place. Imagine the other things you could of done with that time. THIS IS WHAT IS CALLED A LIMITED BELIEVE, WHATEVER YOUR MIND CAN CONCEIVE CAN ACHIEVE, THE MORE YOU PRACTICE ANYTHING NOT ONLY PICK UP THE BETTER YOU GET AT IT, APPLIES TO ANYTHING IN LIFE, WITH THAT BEING SAID, YOU NEED BALANCE IN YOUR LIFE, NOT YOUR WHOLE LIFE REVOLVING AROUND PICK UP...

skills360- Maybe you should start modeling jordan and become as good as him...then you could get lots of girls. NOT INTERESTED IN BEING LIKE MICHAEL JORDAN AT ALL, I WAS MAKING AN EXAMPLE OF MICHAEL JORDAN NOT BEING A QUITTER, HE FAIL MANY TIMES TILL HE BECAME THE GREATEST, I GET LOTS OF GIRLS ALREADY WITHOUT BEING MICHAEL JORDAN, NICE TRY DUDE!Yes i do think most fat guys can get in much better shape, but i was using that as an example that looks can be a limit. I WAS MAKING AN EXAMPLE THAT YOU CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR LOOKS, PLUS WOMEN ARE NOT AS VISUAL AS YOU THINK.. I figured if i used people who had looks that could not be changed such as a midget or crippled person as an example people would get offended. By the way i have absolutely nothing against midgets or anyone with a disability. I HAVE SEEN PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES WITH GIRLS THAT REGULAR GUYS WITH NO DISABILITIES CAN ONLY DREAM OF, YOU ARE ASSUMING STUFF DUDE.

Anti-lover13- This post might not be directed to you. That is why i said "MAYBE YOU.." I wrote this after winging with a couple naturally ugly people who couldn't do much about their looks. Their "game" , style, confidence, etc, was just as good or better than mine at the time. However i was getting way more girls than them. One particular guy said he approached around 1,500 girls and only laid 2 unatractive ones. Their looks limited them, and to this day one of them continues to chase a fantasy. HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WAS 100% FOR SURE THEIR LOOKS, MAY BE A FLAW IN THEIR GAME, PLUS HE HAS NOT QUIT YET, HOW DO YOU KNOW THE FINAL OUTCOME, WHY IS IT A FANTASY, THE ONLY WAY HE CAN FAIL IS IF HE QUITS..
I am glad you are having success in the dating world! And you are right that you should never chase one girl. I was simply saying some people should not be afraid to settle down with a sure thing. The grass is not always greener on the other side. NO SETTLING, THAT IS LOSER MENTALITY GO AFTER WHAT YOU WANT TILL YOU GET IT, A WINNER NEVER QUITS A QUITTER NEVER WINS, IF YOU SETTLE FOR WHATEVER, MAKES YOU LOSER.

M2- Honestly how are things working out for you?

DJ_Z-
1. Please reread my post. I know for a fact guys study this for many different reasons. The post was not written to every pua. I simple use 1 night stands as an example of something that may not be acheivable for certain people. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT, YOU DID SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH, THIS MAKE NO SENSE, ONE NIGHT STANDS EASIER THAN YOU THINK...
2. I already said to improve as much as possible. But some guys in this game will spend years chasing after the fantasy of being a mpua even thou it is impossible for them. Do you see what i'm saying? NOOO
3. I was simple giving an example, obvisouly i'm talking about a girl that a person may have strong feelings for, but is to busy trying to be a pua.AH????IF YOU HAVE FEELINGS FOR A GIRL, USE THE RIGHT TECHNIQUES AND YOU MAY HAVE A STRONGER CHANCE TO GET HER...CALIBRATION
4. No i don't assume all pua's are manipulators. You miss the point completely. The point is no matter how much game someone has most girls just may not be physically attracted to that person and therefore not give them the time of day. Also most parents want what they consider the best for their daughter, and that sometimes excludes people based on looks. AGAIN THIS IS A MYTH, MY CURRENT GIRL WAS NOT PHYSICALLY ATTRACTED TO ME INITIALLY, I HAVE BEEN WITH HER 4 YEARS, AND THAT IS A FACT.
5. No problem. Yet again this is an example of something that could be a limit. NO IS IN BETWEEN YOUR 2 EARS..
6. Believe me brother i have read a lot of posts and blogs. Plus i have real life experience. Some guys worry about life passing them by and then they get absorbed in the pua game and life really does pass them by. FINALLY WE AGREE ON SOMETHING..


Dude you sound like someone that has and has seen many bad experiences with pua, style from the game saw the same thing, so did i, i think the best way is to be a natural try to look and be the best you can be, and use some basic attraction concepts, like do not buy a girls affection, do not tell her how to feel to early, do not be needy etc...

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

I'm gonna go ahead and suggest that everyone stop responding to this thread. If you're new to this forum, here's your first experience with the "hater." These are the guys that will come by here every so often and try to tell you just to stop. You will be told that genetics are 90% of attraction and that you are wasting your time. Before you hit that "reply" button, just remember that you have much better ways to use your time.

Peace out.

I agree that everyone has an upper limit in everything they do but I disagree strongly that people should listen to anyone else tell them what their limit is. I also disagree strongly that people can't get better.

One of the things that all of the great people in the world have had in common is they all have had numerous people tell them that they can't accomplish greatness and that they should devote more of their time and energy into pursuing mediocrity and the mundane.

Since people like tossing Michael Jordan's name around, I am willing to bet good money that someone of significance in MJ's life told him to come in out of the rain and quit practicing jump shots for hours on end because he was wasting his time and that he should spend that time doing something else so he could land a job selling screwdrivers in a hardware store.

Someone told Mariah Carey to shut the fuck up with that high pitched squeeky voice.

Someone told Bill Gates to get away from the computer and get a life and quit being such a geek.

Someone told Warren Buffet to stay away from the stock market and to put his money in the bank.

Someone told Tom Cruise that he couldn't make it in Hollywood because he was too short to be a movie star.

Someone told Barrack Obama he'd never make it in politics because he was black.

For those of you who do not know who Captain Al Haines is. He is the pilot that saved 186 people from certain death by flying an unflyable airliner over 75 miles with no flight controls and no hydraulics and hitting the runway in Sioux City Iowa in 1989. Nobody has ever been able to duplicate his actions or keep a plane aloft in a simulator ever since. Somebody at some point told him he was spending too much time practicing emergency procedures and spending too much simulator time.

All of these people have had other people tell them to accept their limits and tell them that they should be spending their time and energy doing other things. They have all been told that it is OTHER people that have the genetic gifts and talents and that should accept their fate and not strive to improve themselves.

PUA is the same way. Yes we all have an upper limit. BUT we don't know what our upper limit is and we sure as fuck should not let SOMEONE ELSE try to impose a limit on us.