I have no trouble approaching, opening, and executing routines. But I get stuck after that. I mean, i can't gauge when to turn intimate. I either end up getting the timing wrong and fucking everything up, or end up not going for it at all.

Am I not reading the IOIs properly? I usually go for girls anywhere from 5-8, so they're not SHBs with ego issues. Just recently, I attempted to pick up a rather shy 6/10, it failed badly, because she gave none of the regular IOIs and i ended up holding off till the last minute, at which time she thought i just wanted to be friends.
This isn't in a pub/club/bar, this is at school. Does the scene matter?

Can anybody give me some advice?

_________________
Reality is relative. At any given moment one only knows what he can see. To master one's perception of himself he must master other's perceptions of him first.

inner game and body language?

this is how i see it, things i have noticed, i have gone from a fat popular guy, to a very fit popular guy within my social circles, and it goes as follows, girls are shallow just like guys probably more so then guys, but they are shallow in a different way, social proof, how good looking you are, how fit you are, how wide your social circles are, how many girls want to get with you that they know or know of, how much money you have, how you dress, all of these things matter, in closed systems (actual social circles) the higher status social circles bring you more girls with the leaders of the circle being the most sought after, after going to the gym almost every day for 2 years and going from practically obese to having a 6 pack i will tell you this much, girls are easier to close, you don't get shit tested as much, they open easier, doesn't matter as much what you say, when you flip the frame sexual there is less resistance, some girls just no matter what you do will not be attacted to you (because they are shallow), but overall the most important thing is your personality (how you make them feel) attraction is due to shallow means, and how awesome your personality is, now f-closing on the other hand, is almost entirely due to personality/confidence/sub communications/status,

the main things i have noticed that are important and have sky rocketed my game have been, Qualification, Physical Escalation, Isolation, no matter what im doing, routines, just winging it and being in a good happy mood trying to stay in the moment, or following some system, these 3 things seem to be the most important when it comes to the lay, first be social and start physically escalating as soon as possible so you come off as a touchy guy, through time you will be able to notice things such as a girl becoming tense/physically resisting/coughing/laughing all signs that her head is not in the right space with your escalations, back off rego until you are not getting these things (laughing can mean many different things and can still be a go ahead but it depends on the situation usually she is not in the right head space if that makes sense) next when you fully hug a girl, she pats you on the back, that is a bad thing not a good thing, more comfort has still yet to be established, so that is the escalating,

now qualification and isolation, qualification and isolation are great tools to let you know where you are and to allow you to show interest for a valid reason, throw your standards out there and make them bigger and bigger, if she continues to qualify great chance she is interested in you, and after she qualifys you can show interest in her and explain why it is great that she qualified etc. (if you don't understand this look up bait hook reel release) next qualification can be used sexually also, you can qualify sexually, if she does, usually it is a good sign that she is allready comfortable enough to sleep with you (where u are with your physical escalations can also help you define how far you are) really it depends how direct/indirect your approach has been normally i will just based on comfort levels that the girl has try to calibrate, i often try to go more direct but if im getting bad responses i back off, but depends, sometimes you want to just stay congruent and stay true to yourself but sometimes you just want to calibrate when it seems on and get the lay cause fuck being congruent if you can get the lay if that is all you feel like that night,

next is isolation, if she qualifys, all you need to do is try to isolate escalate and close, i think of it as this simple, ALLWAYS BE PHYSICALLY ESCALATING, ALLWAYS BE CLOSING, if she seems like she likes you, qualify, if she qualifys show interest for the qualification, then try to get her to your house to ''WATCH A MOVIE'' then (develope your own sex routine, i just bring them to my room where i have a 50'' plasma throw a movie on, there are no chairs just a bed, i start by putting my hand on stomach and cuddling (like a hug) then slowly moving my hand down until im rubbing vag, then i go for makeout and you know the rest), I ALLWAYS TRY THIS, IF IT DOES NOT WORK THEN JUST FREEZE HER OUT, 2WEEKS+ THEN TRY AGAIN SOME OTHER TIME, only ditch her phone # if she asks you to, even if you try to close she gets mad ASD and storms out saying I NEVER WANNA SEE YOU AGAIN, freeze out, don't remove # unless she asks, she doesn't respond or flakes after freeze out, another 2week+ freeze out try again, eventually she will meet you again, or she will ask you to stop contacting her

NEXT THING, ATTRACTION, things i have noticed that girls do when they are physically attracted to you, when i was fat i barley got this, now that im ripped i get this from about 70% of the girls i talk to, they touch their hair when they look at you (without talking to you just from a distance they see you and start touching hair), girls randomly come try to talk to you for no reason, girls try to carry on conversations longer when you are trying to cut the convo short, girls stay around in your area often and follow you around, girls smile when looking at you, when your in a group and someone elese is talking they keep looking at you for no reason (your not talking), they try to touch you all the time, they laugh at things you say that are not funny (for example you say hey hows it going, they go ITS GOING GREAT HAHAHAHAHA or randomly laugh at innopropriate times), next they touch their hair often/cross arm over chest scratch clavical/rub arm/lick lips/figit/scratch hand in between index finger and thumb/blush and seem nervous), also girls give you random compliments, ie. (your cute, your hot, i like your (piece of clothing), nice haircut etc.) also girls ask you do you have GF, weird questions about getting married, randomly try to talk about sex with you, all these things i have deemed to be general signs that it will easily be on

ALL OF THE ABOVE ARE NOT NEEDED TO GET THE F-CLOSE, some girls will fuck you when they are not even that into you simply for external reasons, but if you are seeing alot of the things i listed above, good sign that she is attracted to you at least physically

and before someone trys to pull the looks don't matter shit on me, i have always had very wide social circles and was considered ''popular'' in highschool, plenty of girls hung out with me and gave me LJBF, all of a sudden alot of them didn't want to JUST BE FRIENDS ANYMORE

when it comes to attitudes and mindsets, the only thing you really have to think to obtain status and power, is simply I DON'T FUCKING CARE WHAT ANYONE THINKS, I WILL DO WHAT I WANT, this includes the girl, she will try to suck you into her frame and care, just only do what you want, and don't care, girls will test you on this, don't react just DONT FUCKING CARE, AND DO WHAT YOU WANT, THIS IS THE ONLY ADITUDE YOU NEED TO ADOPT DURING PICKUP, go have fun, DONT CARE, meet girls, ESCALATE AND CLOSE, if they don't seem into you, WHO FUCKING CARES, NEXT


OHHHHH 1 MORE THING, STOP BEING A PUSSY AND GOING FOR GIRLS BASED ON WHAT YOU THINK YOUR LEAGUE IS, GIRLS ARE PEOPLE, YOU ARE ATTRACTIVE AS YOU ARE ATTRACTIVE, A HB10 WILL BE JUST AS ATTRACTED TO YOU AS A HB3, only difference is the 10 might get way more male options and unless you escalate like you know what you are doing and SNL her she might lose interest and think your a pussy, where as the 3 will hold on to the chance to be around you cause no other guys ever try to fuck her, (this not being in a closed system of coarse, in a closed system ie social circles you need to be socially either on an equal level as her or preferably higher cause girls care about their social standings big time, this is why cold approach night game is better, she has no idea where you are socially compared to her, other than guess by how you talk/act and the social proof she percieves)

anyways i hope this helps stop being a pussy and go get your dick wet, GL

anyways good luck, i hope this helps you

thanks for the reply, very comprehensive and useful.

Seems like i need to go hit the gym.

Basically, i find myself in the same position that u were in, (overweight, but popular with lot of friends that are girls).

So what ur saying is that its not my outer game that's the problem, its just physical attractiveness?

Because at the moment, i have no trouble engaging and build rapport. But the most im able to get is a friendly hug out of some girls.

This dosen't happen all the time, just most times. It's really beginning to be annoying.

As far as routines go, i put some light NLP while runnning my routines, and I have no problems getting to the end of A3 (mystery method's model).

I am just frustrated because I do all my routines correctly, demonstrate higher value and whatnot, lay the negs accordingly. But i seem to be terrible at IOIs and can never make it past C2.


So ur saying if i get a muscular body its like a magic bullet? lol.


EDIT: no, its not my personal grooming either. I always dress fashionably (not up to par with peacocking though), and wear cologne at all times. Often i wear an interesting object, as a suitable lure i.e. to appear approachable and also to act as a gauge while im escalating (e.g. girl compliments me on it/mentions it in some way, know what stage im at).

_________________
Reality is relative. At any given moment one only knows what he can see. To master one's perception of himself he must master other's perceptions of him first.

every girl has her own tastes, don't think you can't get laid just because you are overweight, this game is simply a numbers game, but yes, becomming fit will definately improve the number of girls that will give you attraction, and how easy it is to gain attraction, but for the time being please just open more girls and keep trying and still only open girls you find attractive, eventually you will find one that will sleep with you

and as far as MM goes, i break that system down to you open to hook, break report, try to seem interesting, try to qualify (3 ioi's ask what she got going on more then looks beauty is common etc.) isolate (if you can qualify/isolate more then likely she is attracted and in a club/bar setting you should have some physical comfort established by now) shut up she re-initiates kiss close, then continue into grouding/raport seeking, begin validating/qualifieing for her, (avoid this as much as possible in attraction according to this system) when you have grounded yourself, ie. when she trys to qualify you tell her your life story (usally after you qualify her she will try to qualify you make sense?) next seek commonalities, can do this via discussing what kind of music you like or playing the question game, next pump her BT (set sexual frame or sexually qualify), then begin foreplay, deal with LMR, have sex,

IMO MM is sort of flawed, interations are not this concreate and you can often not do any of these things and just pump BT, AND PULL, but it is fine to follow these steps, if you read my big long post from before, just read the part where i say next thing attraction, if you see any of that shit from girls that you are talking to, try to escalate and isolate, for some girls looks are paramount, for others looks are not a factor at all, just has to be socially acceptable or discreet, GAME ON AND GOOD LUCK

also try to get more kisses from girls, every single girl you talk to, set sexual frames, and try to get kisses, when they test congruence don't react, for example ''thats creepy'' just spout a bunch of nonsense or not respond and stare at them untill they break the tention, so it could be like this,
girl : you gonna come to the mall?
you: you gonna make out with me?
girl: thats creepy
you: your mom is creepy, or PENUT BUTTER IS GOOD ON TOAST?, or stare down, or NO YOU, say anything just show no facial expression or emotional shift, also constantly be trying to make out, this is probably your best bet, staying in the safe zone will not get you laid, I know if i had the choice between haveing 10 girls that were my friends and keeping them all, or having 1 girls that sucks my cock everyday and swallows, and lose 9/10 of those friends to get that, i would go with the second choice, cause getting a friendly blowjob is a hell of a lot better then getting a friendly hug and a hello,

if its just like ''EWWWWWW NOO'' or something like that just mymic them, or spout a bunch of nonsense and change the subject, minutes later reseting sexual frame again, still try to physically escalate etc. eventually and swear by this you will find a girl that will fuck you, just prepare for shit tests, shit tests by the dozens, and i do reccomend working out,

if she says something along the lines of your ugly, just agree and reframe, why you so into ugly guys, she will keep trying to reframe, just get creative not reacting and turning it around, THE ONLY TIME YOU EVER LOSE THE GAME WHILE ESCALATING THE SITUATION IS IF SHE REMOVES HERSELF FROM THE SITUATION, girls will probably try to get you to break report, don't fucking do it, make sure they break report not you, this is the only advise I can give you for now, I will say looks do matter BUT DO NOT LET HAVING A LACK OF THEM HOLD YOU BACK, i still had a GF when i was fat, it was just a fuck load harder to game, way more shit tests etc.