I've always had a crippling problem getting from phone number to Day 2 with a woman. I can't create enough attraction to get her to come out with me/invite me out. Read my other thread if you want a more in depth explanation of the problem, I'm tired of whining about it, it's action time.

I have two examples of conversations below where the woman stops responding to me mid conversation. Both of them are old friends I haven't seen in 3 years that I met recently. Both examples are text messages. Please point out what I did wrong and explicit examples of what I should have said or done instead which could have lead to a date.

-HB Tootin-

Day 2 with her. She had to leave in 30 mins, no time to escalate, I set up a movie date. She flakes. I give her a couple weeks and contact on facebook with this routine:

"I just met your twin, text me and I'll tell you about it"

She texts me very soon after. Great.

HB: Hi!
Me: It was crazy, she's just like you. Short, black hair, adorable, she added me on facebook a while ago, we went out for lunch (I'm actually joking, all these characteristics of the "twin" are her)
HB: haha, really?
Me: Yeah, she's unlike you though. She's naughty, she was pinching my butt and everything when we hung out (she never did this)
HB: haha
Me: She wants to watch a movie soon, but I'm afraid she'll take advantage of me
HB: LOL
Me: So talking about her reminded me of you. Lets watch something this week.

She has not responded since. Now I have to reinstate contact, making my position even worse than it already is.

-HB Quad-

Me: Hey my favorite bookstore worker, how's it going?
HB: Not much, just hanging with family
Me: for some reason in my mind, i see you having this huge, close family. Or are you more the home alone, facebook refresher type?
HB: Big family! we are playing cards, lol
Me: (I wanted to call her, but after she mentioned that she was busy with family, I decided to keep texting) I'm jealous, I love family games, they are so intense. I bet you cheat, don't you? Don't worry, your secret is safe with me.
HB: haha, only when I play bs
Me: Hmm... I'll make sure to watch out for you. I'll bet we'll be bowling, and you'll reset the pins when I'm not looking
HB: At least I told you the truth about cheating, otherwise you might have never known
Me: True, that does earn you a gold star. Remember how in kindergarten, you would get stars for doing something awesome? Do you want to know how you can recieve another?
HB: Hmm... do I want to know?
Me: I don't know what evil thoughts you are having, but I'm going for starbucks this week, you should tag along

No response after this. Again, the conversation ceases to be important to her for some reason.

Hi man!

Look, the first conversation is quite ok. its fun to read actually. but in the end, it feels cheesy. I would say it is because of the following two things:

1) the twin thing is fun, just know when to stop with it.
2) you try to trick her into a movie date.

those two problems are entwined though. You should have stopped with the twin joke at the moment you directly ask her to do something together with you.

Yes, you have to ask directly. like:

hehe, ok, enough with the twins. I wanna do something together. Lets go for a drink, a walk, visit something, a fuck, whatever.

If she doesnt want to, she doesnt want to, but trying to trick her into a date, she is way to clever for that. It will feel icky for her, like: what the hell is he hiding. It feels awkward, really. dont do it like that.

If you just want sex with this girl/woman, be more direct. Say you think she is attractive, sexy. Amp it up during the 'date'/time together.

If you want a LTR, also be more direct, but focus on getting to know her more. Who is this woman? After that, if you still think she is sexy and attractive, tell her that. Tell her you like her.

The second conversation is really bad. She is busy doing stuff and you kinda force a 'text' conversation. Text conversations annoy the hell out of me, so i can imagine, when playing cards and i wanna win, and some dick is harrassing me with this crap of how jealous he is on my family, i would have given up lots earlier.

This is actually a problem in both your text messages: you force a conversation. Its like you wont stop. You need to grow a pair amigo!! Instead of sending text messages, call right away!

Hey, its me. how are you? fine? me too, thank you. Hey, i want to go shopping, drinking, bowling, singing, fucking with you upcoming thursday. Are you available? yes? cool, i ll pick you up at 7, 8, 9, some time in the evening. No? that is too bad. Well, no problem, see ya later (in your mind: NEEEEEEXT!!!).

You should do this whenever you made the mistake of not asking for a next date the first time you met her!!

You need to be real with women. You need to be a bit more direct, showing what it is you want. You meet somebody interesting? talk with her! had fun? lets do it again! say:
hey, u know what, i really had fun. Lets meet again next thursday for some good shopping, bowling, singing, fucking, dogwalking, swaglicking.

A man that is real and goes for what he wants is an attractive man, even if he is as ugly as the acne ass of an overweight elephant.

Cheerios amigo. I know it might have been a bit harsh, but you had it comming . Anyways, if you have more questions, shoot! Dont you ever give up, cause amongst all the textbook dudes, you are actually doing something, which i have lots of respect for.

cheers!

_________________
"Stop being a fucking vagina and escalate" - CaptainJackHarkness

Like the naked leads the blind.
I know I'm selfish, I'm unkind.
Sucker love I always find,
Someone to bruise and leave behind.
placebo - every me, every you

One more thing:

'movie dates' is kinda of a bad idea when you havent kissed her our havent touched her yet. Why? its dark, you are supposed to shut the fuck up in there and its not like you will have the balls to start some pussy massage in there if you havent even kissed her. Your mind will be too busy with: would it be alright or would it be awkward? What would she do? how would she react.

bad idea. Do something else that you enjoy, but gives the opportunity to talk.

cheers!

_________________
"Stop being a fucking vagina and escalate" - CaptainJackHarkness

Like the naked leads the blind.
I know I'm selfish, I'm unkind.
Sucker love I always find,
Someone to bruise and leave behind.
placebo - every me, every you

Oh no, thanks LD for your truthfulness, I want to improve, and the only way i can do that is if people give it to me straight.

When we planned a movie date on the first date, we planned for her to come over to my house and watch a movie, not a theater, I hate those type of dates.

So lets say I call her, tell her that I'm watching a movie at my place, she can join if she wants to, and she's busy (which happens alot, I can't magically guess when they don't have plans).

Don't tell me I have to NEXT her that early? Shouldn't I at least try a couple more times later on? Wouldn't I miss alot of opportunities if I just assumed every chick who I accidentally invite to hang out during her sister's wedding isn't interested in me?

With the second conversation, I'm not sure what your critique is. Are you saying I should have immediately left her alone when she said she was with her family, and tried again with a call another day? Also, the conversation I had with her when I first met her was very quick, she came up to me and said hello, we caught up, but I had to let her get back to work, I met her while she was on the job, so I could do nothing but tell her we should go out for coffee soon and grab her number.

Also, if I'm not already asking too many questions, can you give me another example of a non forced way to get her out on the Day 2? I'm not saying your advice doesn't work, I will immediately try it, but usually when I ask women out by saying "I'm doing this on this day, tag along" I will accidentally invite them out when they are busy (work, plans, whatever) and then I have to leave them alone and try again next week or whatever. But then each time I ask and mess up, I become more and more needy until she flat out just ignores my existence. Asking when they are free also just puts me in trouble as well. It's like I have to play a guessing game on when they are free, and if I mess up, I slowly become less attractive to them.

the emotion im getting is that you are somewhow conveying something sexual ...

don't talk about what she is thinking .... evil thoughts and that shit ... ASD you know. don't mension evil thoughts and don't mension watching a movie - from a womans perspective watching a movie means fucking at home.

i think you had no emotional relevance towards these woman

_________________
AK-47...When you absolutely positively have to kill every fucking orc in the room
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Thanks for pointing out my weaknesses, I'll check that out.

Can you give me some examples of what to do instead? Like, okay, be indirect and don't bring up sex, but if I can't ask her to watch a movie.... then how am I supposed to make that happen?

Just invite her over and be like "HA, I fooled you, lets watch a movie?". Like how am I supposed to invite her over for a movie...without inviting her over for a movie?

Just a side note: Not all conversations you initiate have to end in you asking her out. Some girls just wont meet up with you right away. Talk with her a bit, learn shit about her, and pretend like you really give a flying fuck. A girl is gonna wanna meet up with that guy, not "I saw your twin! Wanna get coffee?!" guy. If your so fixated on getting this girl to meet you it's gonna show and it's gonna be bad. After a week or two of solid texting and talking, you'll be amazed at how the opportunity will present itself to hook up, and it'll actually flow with the conversations so it's not popping out of the blue.

This gives the impression that YOU are feeling HER out and that your not as quick to jump all over her like most other guys are. Women respect the shit out of that.

_________________
A Tru nigga

I thought since these were people I'm already friends with, I wouldn't have to "warm" them up like cold approach women.

But you are suggesting to talk to her, try to get her to qualify herself? Just let her naturally bring up a hang out by herself?

I'm afraid that I'd be treading a fine line between getting a Day 2, and talking myself into the friends zone, but I'll apply your tip to my next conversation, thanks.

It's tough, I don't really have a life yet, so I can't just bring up "yeah, I'll be barrel rolling a 707 this weekend" and have her ask to come along. I've been trying all these different crazy things I've never done before to make my life more interesting but I'm not particularly interested in fencing, clubbing, dressing up as cartoon characters, etc. My interests are relaxation and women. Except what I love to do doesn't attract women.

I can understand why you'd be worried about the endzone. Just ask yourself what you want from this girl. If you want to just fuck her, you still have to put in time with her. Get to know her a bit. That doesn't mean you cant be flirty or sexy, just dont jump the gun like most other fools. You'll come across as "genuine". Having other things to fill your time helps too because you need to learn to be more patient and realize this is a process.

Trust me, I know exactly where your coming from. It just typically doesn't work that way. Never seem TOO eager to meet up. Get used to talking to multiple women without a hidden agenda. Be fun, be flirty, but you need to at least feign interest in them. Most girls of decent quality wont jump into bed with a guy until she feels like she can trust them to some extent.

Girls that you're already friends with can be tricky. Honestly, if I were you I would keep the female friends you have and just continue to meet more women. You'd be surprised how often those female friends come in handy too.

_________________
A Tru nigga

Okay.

The first conversation.

You must have realised that she wasn't all that into your messages with her one word replies? If you didn't, work on that.

Also, a lot of your messages are sexual. ''pinching the butt'' and ''taking advantage'' are NOT as good to read for women as they are for us, men. Tone that down.


The second conversation

Well, what's with the whole droning on and on about cheating? No one likes being called a 'cheater', maybe once as a joke but not repeatedly.

What I see in your messages is too much reliance on that canned pick-up material people read from dating coaches. Why don't you rely on your own psyche to give you pointers in the conversation.

''do I want to know'' is what she said. ''No'' is what she meant.

You're being hyper with the whole long messages. Keep it short. I cannot lay enough emphasis on that. Your message lengths should be shorter than hers in the same way when we game a girl in reality, the rule of thumb is to get her talking a lot more than you do.

And you could've set up the question of coffee in a more proper way over a number of questions leading up to this.

_________________
" You're born alone and you die alone and this world just drops a bunch of rules on top of you to make you forget those facts. But I never forget. I'm living like there's no tomorrow, because there isn't one. "

You seem to usually have like 2 sentences, where as she replies with a one word response ie. "LOL".

She could be just replying out of politeness or has too much credit to use up.

The person who talks is qualifying. (dunno if this relates to text game :S but yeah).

Don Draper and lolskate, you both pointed out the same flaw, I'll get on that.

Can you give me an example of what to do if I'm getting one word answers? Okay, it's bad, but how do I fix it without playing the question game?

If I try to have an extended conversation, I find women get bored. I tried to have interesting conversations, and apparently I'm too forward. I feel like I can't win here.

Hi man!

sorry for the late reply, but lets get to work.
great . i misinterpreted that.
You are right. But lets see it this way: You can try a couple of times, but... when she really wants to be with you, she will either agree once, or invite you herself to do something once upon a time. After a couple of tries (like 3 or 4) and she 'is busy with stuff' or she doesnt propose another day/time, i would think: she just isnt interested. so.... NEXT!!!!

Truth is actually quite easy: people can spit words all they want, but eventually they do what they really want to do. Lots of truth is to be found in actions.
I am sorry about my critique on the second conversation. Let me explain good this time:
You said it: grab the number and grab a coffee sometime. Yeah, that is good. But then you should use the number to ask her to go out for that coffee. That is why you got her number. Not to text her with unrelated stuff. You start a text conversation, as you begin with a question, and that is just one message. You are not making a point or anything concrete, you asked an open ended question and you do expect an answer, it would be rude. Then you come up with family jibba-jabba. You make assumptions on her family, but you dont know anything about it. Its like you are text cold reading her, which would actually be called: very cold cold reading. Again you dont make point in your text, nothing concrete, just a remark. Can you feel where i am heading with this? In a real life conversation, this is more ok. You can make assumptions, but they need to be based on some real info. Better would have been (in real life): oh great. Is family important to you? Why/why not? etc.

This conversation in cell phone text form is annoying the crap out of me, i can imagine it does about the same thing with her. Point is, lots of dudes do this when they get a number. They DEMAND attention in this way. its annoying, like you dont have anything better to do.


You can never ask too many questions amigo

Yes i can. Instead of trying to trick them with meaningless conversations, be more direct. The second conversation is one not needed. instead, you should have called her and said something in the lines of:

-------
hi, its me. Am i disturbing SPAM? Yes? sorry, call ya back later. (hang up)
No? (as in, you are not interrupting anything). Aah ok, so i was wondering if you had plans for next thursday. I was thinking we could go and grab that coffee. You already have plans? (here, in the best scenario, she comes up with another day herself. If she doesnt, you can say this). hmm, then what day are you available? (if she answers: 'i dont know' or something in that line, dont push any further. If she really wants you, she will let you know). Aah friday then? ok, 8.30, that is cool? Ok.

-------

The point is: when they are busy, but deep down inside they wanna meet up with you, they will. They will either suggest another date, let you suggest one, or call you themselves when they stop hearing from you.

Also, be very honest with yourself: you usually know when she really aint interested in the way she responds to you. If she really wants to, you will never ask yourself: what the hell does she mean by that? or you will never ask yourself: is she really interested? In doubt, just be honest: she aint that much interested. NEXT!!!!


I want to end with this:

I might have been harsh and straightforward. But, in the end, i did the easy work, which was tearing you down.

I very much respect your honest questions and your balls for giving us your conversations, while very well knowing we can tear you down. Really, i respect it a lot. See honesty as a gift, it might hurt in the beginning, but it shows its value in the end.

Keep on working, you will get there.

cheers

_________________
"Stop being a fucking vagina and escalate" - CaptainJackHarkness

Like the naked leads the blind.
I know I'm selfish, I'm unkind.
Sucker love I always find,
Someone to bruise and leave behind.
placebo - every me, every you