I know that probably somewhere in the "OMERTA" of pick-up, this is FORBIDDEN, and highly undesirable, but just keep reading.
MY wing is the alfa of a group (any group we come in), and generally I try to learn how to be alpha from him. Whenever I am without him in a set, I am alpha, the leader. But, when he comes in, he runs the conversation.
I am generally good at seducing, and when it seems that she is into me, when I think to myself:"Well, I gamed her, she is all mine now", somehow he would start talking with her, and I would get this burst of JEALOUSY that I keep bottled up inside of me.


After he talks to her, I just can't be with that girl anymore even though she is still into me, because then I think to myself: "If he (my wing) didn't have a girlfriend now, he would be doing her in the toilet right now", and then I feel like my game was crap and that it was pure luck that I got her, because if he was available, she would go with him.


So, I hope that you understand my position, and that you can see my desperateness right now. PLEASE, don't judge me, I just want to kick his ass once in AMOG-ing...

i am in the same situation. i literally just keep on trying to out amog him lol. sometimes i succeed...idk i feel i'm getting better. it's all about being louder, taking up more space, and giving less of a fuck

Well, yeah, I get that, and what I also understand is that you need to make a lot of facial expressions and do funny voices (chicks dig that), but still, he's somehow better then me... :-\

If it were me, I'd just talk to him about it and see if he'll be beta for a little while. But if that doesn't work, you could always just make him seem beta through implying that you're alpha.

Like, I'll just AMOG my brother all the time (Not with pick up, but because he's a natural alpha and it annoys me, I AMOG him with good results)

I'll say things like "Y'know, you can stop trying to tear me down to build yourself up. It's okay. I accept you how you are." or "That's pretty funny. You can be my personal comedian if you want. " or just whatever.

The thing is, AMOGing is completely douchey. (Neil Strauss, in the book, "The Game" talks about how this little redheaded dude always tries to AMOG him and he says something about how the difference between him and the little dude is that he wants to make himself better, whereas the smaller dude tries to eliminate competition) I'll only do it to mess with my brother when he irks me.

Or, you could just isolate your target before she catches that your buddy is being an AMOG. Just whatever.

Bros before hos, dude.

Remember, AMOGs are essentially douche bags. Being a douche bag isn't good. He's your friend, so just tell him that you two have got to find a way to make this work. If he tells you he would rather get the girls than step back and wing because you, his friend, asks him to do so, then he is not too great a friend. You can't treat it as some stranger taking over your sets because you run the risk of losing a friend, but if talking to him and being straight doesn't get anywhere, he isn't a friend and losing him isn't quite so bad.

Here's what I would do (and have done, I was in a similar situation) and I would say it before we go out.

"Dude, lately when I've been approaching girls and trying to get anything going you have been stepping in and taking over the conversations every time. If you see me talking to a girl, it means I wanna talk to her, and unless I signal you for help, I'd appreciate you not taking over. There are plenty of women around where we go, so if you see someone you like, hell you can yell dibs. Otherwise, let me work. You're my boy but its getting to be a pain."

Obviously I don't expect you to be word for word, but I'm trying to make sure my point comes across very clearly. If he gets in your face, you gotta explain that you two can be a kickass team, but that requires going into things knowing that sometimes one guy is playing a pure support role.

No, talking won't help. I mean, that would mean that I would be asking him to be something that he isn't, I don't want to change him. I WANT TO CHANGE MYSELF. I like that "tearing down" line you used, if you could give me some other examples it would be great. I had younger brother, so I was kind of AMOGing him, but if you put girls in equation, then my method just sucks.
If he inturrepts me while talking, what can I else beside that?
Thanks in advance...

Yeah, you are completely right, he is my friend and I care about him deeply and that would work on girls we sarge, but I am talking about whole social circle. I can't ask him to completely shut down his AMOG inside. I need to level up, so that when we are found in the same social circle that they think of us as equals, as alphas.


The other day I was talking to a girl, who me and my friend know for couple of weeks now, and I asked her:"Why do you let people use you like that, you're too good for that", and then she told me THE LINE that felt for me like a cold shower in the morning, it was a wake up call :"I don't know, I just like being in submission, I just like being in company of people who are comfident and dominant, and as I have seen, so DO YOU".
I felt like I lost my fucking manhood dude! I felt terrible, like a was a failure as a man.


I am not a shy guy (even though I still have quite a bit of problems with approaching), I am very outgoing, I am talking all the time, I have never seen myself as being in submission, but when she told me that, I realized, that he decides everything. We come together in a club, he somehow stands somewhere and we all stand where he does, it was such an eye opener.
I mean, it's like we have subconsciously made a deal that he will be the leader of this tribe. I don't know.


DO you get it? I have to control the whole society in order to AMOG him properly. I don't want to insult him, just poke him every now and then that I am also a valid AMOG....

You don't have to ask him to change who he is, just to let you do your thing when you start talking to a woman. If you step away from the group, you don't have to deal with the entire social circle. But also, you can't be afraid to step on his toes because he is your friend. Maybe it'd be easier if you two cooperated once?

Here's my idea, find a bar/club that you have never been to before, do a little research to see if its any good, and tell your friends that is where you all need to be the next time you go out. If you're the only one who is familiar with the place at all, it becomes way easier for you to take the lead. Plus you don't have to worry about acting like a dick towards your buddy because it makes sense for you to be in charge. After all, you're the only one who knows where the hell you're going. Now obviously you can't do this all the time, but maybe if you put yourself in a position where you need to be the alpha, it will be easier for you two to coexist.

Is it just me or do I see an oxymoron somewhere in your "problem". You wanna be just as alpha, but you don't want to offend him. By definition of being alpha, you don't give a shit. Your are the prize, and you're confident enough to make your own decisions. If you're always looking to him, worrying about his feelings, compromising your own wants for his sake, then you have already failed to be his equal. You can't ask him to share his alphaness, that makes no sense. You have to take it. And yes, you probably will lose him as a friend. At the very least, your relationship will change, and he may not like that. No one likes losing power. If you look at animals, i.e. wolf packs, gorillas, there is only one alpha male of the group. If you want to Amog him, he will start to see you as his rival. I don't see any ways to get around that.

don't focus on tooling your friend that is the worst way to accomplish amog, and chances are he will tool you back and then you guys will get blown out because two friends tooling each other is a DLV (violates protector of loved ones), if you want to be more AMOG then simply focus on an emotion, concentrate on the stregth of this emotion and do what you want, do not allow anyone to alter this emotion, and speak when you want and try not to find the need to impress people/do what they want, very simply do what you want, don't seek peoples attention just be aloof and do what you want to do, simple as that, just have to do what you want to do and not follow, eventually people will follow you

find a new wingman!

I have the same problem with my current wingman: he lost his game during the way, he got his AA back, talking bullshit, ruining my game.

The problem is also myself: I found it comfortable with a wing man, to game together. But I can game by myself!

My wingman benefits from me, since I am good in social talks. He waits till I make conversations with people (gym, bar, clubs), then he jumps in and make friends too. Or he keeps close look to my FB, and sees the new friends I add, and he will add them too.

We are not animals, we are human beings.

This is a huge mistake people make when they first get into this stuff and it's a tough habit to break. Some guys mix up "alpha" and "dickhead" really easily. An alpha is confident, yes, a leader, yes, but he doesn't disregard every friend he ever had for the game. If you have no friends, and are all alone, how can you be the alpha in a pack? There is no more pack.

People that get to wrapped up in pickup get this way. They think "whoever is too AFC and is bringing me down or AMOGs me can't be my friend anymore." All the OP has to do is talk to his friend and find a way to worth together. The OP does need to get over avoiding hurting his friend's feelings, but he shouldn't try to make the guy feel like shit.

I think we can see enough examples of PUA "masters" who have issues in their personal lives to know that if you put getting laid ahead of everything else in life you will not have a very good life.

But OP said he doesn't want to change his friend. I, personally, believe the best way to get around this situation is just to talk to his friend about it. But if his friend is unwilling to do that (or if OP is not willing to "change" his friend) and the OP is unwilling to be anything less than alpha, well then I see a problem that has no middle ground: either OP gets his way, or his AMOGing friend does.

@ OP
Seriously though, just tell your friend to stop AMOGing. I'm usually the alpha in my social circles, not all but most circles. I never, and will never, AMOG a friend of mine. That doesn't mean I feel beta or anything like that. Just talk to your friend about it, in doing so, you would have stood up to him and be more of the person you want to be.

Look, I don't want to talk with him about that. I want to do to him what he does to me all the time. I mean, this IS NOT how friendship should look like.
He is basically gainning attraction spikes by DLV-ing me. He is great guy, but this is not how friendship works. We have been friends for a long time, since we were kids, and I never looked on his behaviour to me when in company of womens as insults, because I had no game then, and I honestly didn't care.
But now, when I know the real reason why is he acting like jackass, and now, when I'm trying to fix my love life, and I see him constantly AMOG-ing me, I just want to beat him in HIS OWN GAME. I want to AMOG the shit out of him.


I still care about him, but I don't want to ask him, just show him. So, if you don't have better ideas, I will do to him things that he has done to me.
These things are:

- cutting my threads (while I am talking he starts interrupting and derailing the convo)
- when I am talking to a girl, he comes even closer than I am, cuts my thread, and focuses her completely on him, says something funny, and then leaves. (after that I feel for some reason as a dirty old whore whos uterus is about to fall out)
- if he is sitting with a girl and I am sitting across them talking to a girl, he would come closer to her, make some funny remark about me, and again focus her on him
- make fun of me (not insult, just AMOG joke that lowers my value)
- or when I am gaming a girl, he would say:"Come on, do it how I taught you", which is the only line a guy can use that can really make me insanely furious, because then I am inferior to him, and he didn't teach me anything!!!!(at least nothing that is relevant to social dynamics)


For example, this is what he has done today while we were working:

I was sitting with a girl on a curb and I said that it would be really funny to play the game: "Kill, fuck, marry", where I select a guy, and she says what would she do to him if she had only those options. I said that she should whisper in my ear so that people around us wouldn't hear what are we talking about. So, we were whispering in each others ears, touching and laughing, and then BOOM, he comes, he sits right in front her, hugs her and points out something completely unrelated to any topic, she laughs and he leaves. I was so fucking angry!!!
I mean, I wasn't gaming her, but what the hell, you can't to that to your best friend!!!

I hope that you NOW know how serious this is and why I am calling for such desperate measures. If this destroys our friendship, I don't care, I want him to feel same emotions that I have felt for quite some time now.
Can you help me in AMOG-ing him?

Couldn't have said it better my friend.
Sounds like to me you just want some revenge.
Read "Some Amog Tactics" by Tyler Durden (can't link it for some reason, sorry. just goggle it).

Or you can just ignore him. Outframe him. Don't even acknowledge his insults. If you respond, even with a facial expression, then he just had an effect on you. Alphas are not effect by petty insults. Watch this video by tosh.0. I saw it a couple days ago for fun but found it pretty cool how he's able to brush off all the insulting remarks like it doesn't even matter.


But seriously, I would forget about it if I were you. You're right, this is not how friendships are supposed to be. Just because you guys have been friends since kids does not mean you guys are good friends. Time is an important part of any relationship, but if there isn't any chemistry, it's not gonna work. Couples divorce after many years of marriage? Why? Because the relationship sucks. Time becomes irrelevant. There is no reason this would not apply to friendships with guys either. It sounds like your relationship just sucks.

If you Amog him, you will just create animosity and it's likely that you will lose the friendship- you certainly don't sound like you have a problem with that. If you talk to him about it, you have more of a chance to reconcile the relationship. The way I see it, the choice is yours, what do you value more? Revenge or your friendship?