Yes, every guy has a different definition of a 10, but the point is that all those girls -- whether you're Kim Kardashian or Kate Moss -- KNOW that they're 10s. They aren't remotely flattered by your attention any more than you're flattered when a telemarketer calls.

It's important to a develop a sense for whether she thinks of herself as a 10, which means observing the same kinds of clues that women observe in men (e.g. social value, style of dress, etc.) If she thinks she's a 10, then you should game her like one.

For example, I recently went neg-crazy on this blazing hot girl that had every guy in the club lusting for her. Didn't work, and I was perplexed by why she was showing me pictures of this friend of hers, who was even hotter. She wanted to hook the two of us up, and I failed to generate attraction with the original hottie. Found out later that she had a kid, so she probably didn't think of herself as a 10, and so the negs probably made her think I was out of her league.

Something that doesn't get a lot of attention in these forums is the importance of handling rejection. A 10 will shoot down every single guy who hits on her, like a reflex, but she'll remember the one who is completely unfazed, who uses that rejection as a launching pad for more humor and flirtation. That's how she knows your confidence and charm is legit.

being a girl myself i agree with this 100%. Hot girls intimidate guys so much (as im sure you know). Hot girls DO remember guys that approach as long as they dont use boring pick up lines and they arent average (looks wise or pickup). I once had a guy hit on me and although he wasnt the hottest guy in the world, i remember him negging me and me trying to qualify myself. His game and how good it was is why I remember him. Not his looks

So yea i agree also that the game is different for hb8/under and hb 9-10s. Girls under 8 take chances with guys who arent amazing looking because they know hotter guys will go for the hb 9-10s so they have to work with what they can get. (thats not to say that a hot guy wont go for uglier girls, im just saying). Some 9s and 10s have major bitch shield and girls are aware of it too, not just the guys. Most guys cant get 9-10s because they focus too much on the girls' looks and get nervous. Some guys just chalk that up to be "oh it was her bitch shield not me!" But you just gotta work on game for hotter girls because hotter girls know that they dont have to qualify themselves so much.

Just thought I pointed out the bold part for a couple of reasons. One is in your thread you stated you where a hot girl (taking your word for a grain of salt). But you remember the guy because of how well he gamed you not because of his looks. I know you said or pickup/game, but you forget that most girls are less forgiving on looks than guys are. Girls as I am sure you are aware of focus more on personality than anything else really. The other thing I wanted to pointed out that I bet you dollar for dollar is if an average guy approached you with confidence and didn't put you on a stool I bet you will remember him just as much as an average guy using game on you.
I emphasized this because even the guys here DO NOT GET THIS. Sooo many guys here seem to think they need to game a girl according to her looks. They fail to realize they will have a better success rate if they game the girl and not her looks.
You don't need to work on your game for hotter girls once you realize they are no different than any other girl out there. Ya they are more physically appealing, so what. If you adjust your game to a girls looks and not who she is you are going to have a lower success rate with them. And hotter girls, at least the ones that know that they are hot know society does play to them which is why they don't need to qualify themselves, but once you don't play into such things a hot girl will qualify themselves.

i am going to throw this out there: is it just me or 9-10s sometimes are soooooooo freaking boring, i lose attraction, when i go out i want to have FUN, this 9-10 bored me to death sometimes...Maybe i am weird...

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[quote="Breex18"][quote="AvihooI"]
Some 9s and 10s have major bitch shield and girls are aware of it too, not just the guys. Most guys cant get 9-10s because they focus too much on the girls' looks and get nervous. Some guys just chalk that up to be "oh it was her bitch shield not me!" But you just gotta work on game for hotter girls because hotter girls know that they dont have to qualify themselves so much.[/quote]

So, aside from sticking with it and not treating her differently, any advice on how to get passed the "bitch shield?" I think that's where a lot of guys have trouble. I know for a fact that a lot of great-looking girls are also amazing people and totally worth the effort. The sticking point building the attraction and taking down the defenses without getting into the friend-zone. I know that after attraction is built, comfort building is the same as any other girl.

That said, I think that ability to become attractive to HB9s and HB10s in itself is what all of "game" really boils down to.

I know what your saying..Its like they dont have any game and they just depend on their looks. When this happens i usually just called them out for them being bored by asking them if they had a rough day or saying i remember the first time i was shy. lol

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Different schools of PUA would have different answers to that question. But I think if you have the mentality of "getting passed" the bitch shield or ignoring it, you're coming from a position of weakness.

Sometimes the best solution is to take the bitch shield head on. I mean that you open her with something so bold that you know for certain she's going to go maximum bitch on you. Since you know that bitchy response is coming, you are totally ready for it, and you just smirk and hold the eye contact to show how little it bothered you. You can be amused by it in a cocky, "is that all you got?" way.

Something like the Apocalypse Opener. http://www.bristollair.com/2008/outer-g ... se-opener/

I think if you think the bitch shield as more of a defensive measure than anything else it becomes easier to kill. I normally ignore the bitch shield as much as possible as a lot of times its some sort of test and I don't take such test.
It is? I thought it was to get laid as much as possible.

A lot of hot girls do rely on their looks more so than others. When you do find one that does rely on her looks its so much fun to mess with them as they usually go berserk on you when you don't play into their looks.

Yep totally agree. As soon as the momentum is lost, no matter how that happens, you've lost 'em. HB9/HB10 are just as easy to SNL but much harder to set up a day 2 with. You have to at least K-close on first meeting or they'll just move on to one of their other dozens of options.

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This totally depends on the girl, and had nothing to do with her looks. It only seems to because you THINK it does.

The hottest girl I'm seeing at the moment, despite the fact she is incredibly naturally beautiful, really doesn't think she's that attractive and doubts her self-image a lot. One of the less attractive fuck buddies I've ever had thought she was the absolute shit, and actually said to me that the only reason she could think of why a guy didn't try to have sex with her is that he must be gay!

If you gamed these women based off their looks, you'd probably think you needed to neg the really hot one. What you'd find is she would get defensive and not like it at all, and assume you didn't find her attractive. You'd probably think gaming the latter one would be easy, and suddenly hit a brick wall when you'd get a high bitch shield and a lot of attitude.

The trick, of course, is to game the PERSON! Of course, go for what YOU find attractive, and give her an honest compliment about her appearance if it strikes you. But what really makes the difference is when you can qualify, joke, tease, flirt and compliment her about her actual PERSONALITY traits, quirks, life story, successes, failures, goals, dreams and ambitions. Because then you're appreciating her for what she WANTS to be appreciated for - who she really is.

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[quote="Ryan Oceros"]

The trick, of course, is to game the PERSON! Of course, go for what YOU find attractive, and give her an honest compliment about her appearance if it strikes you. But what really makes the difference is when you can qualify, joke, tease, flirt and compliment her about her actual PERSONALITY traits, quirks, life story, successes, failures, goals, dreams and ambitions. Because then you're appreciating her for what she WANTS to be appreciated for - who she really is.[/quote]

Agreed. I think a lot of guys dislike the idea of negs and often misuse them. What I'd really like to hear is some ideas of what to do with HB9-10s while avoiding negs completely.

Any ideas on how to open and build attraction with those girls quickly without resorting to stock material or negging?

I am not sure if I say guys dislike them, but they certainly misuse them and/or don't deliver them well and such it backfires on them
Why do you need to build up attraction quickly? There is no reason for speed seduction here. Saying that if you all you have to use is negs and stock material you best to work on your social and flirting skills.

I use the 5 star system from I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell.

1 star - girl is fat, ugly, annoying

2 star - girl isn't attractive, but she has one good quality like a great ass. It's basically the butterface category

3 star - the average. she looks good, but you can't brag to your friends about her without talking about her being sexually adventurous, paying for dates, etc

4 star - you are proud to be seen in public with her. 4 star status requires 80% of the men available vote for her being a 4 star.

5 star - drop dead gorgeous. that 5 isn't just the star rating, its legit 5% of women that reach this point when they actually care about their appearance and try to...hard. 5 star status is reduced to 4 star with 25% vote of the men in the group.

I just like it because the higher ranks specifically state that the other dudes have to comment. It's way to easy to call a girl for a higher number when you either want to fuck her or have already fucked her.

i look for personality, looks(curvy, big ass), performance(if you know what i mean), hygiene...plph that is my 10 formula...

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