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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:28 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:51 pm 
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Waffle waffle, change your perceptions on reality.
Once we disconnect the external world from our own internal mind, we realise that we don’t need to do or say anything, we need no more advice from anybody, and nothing “out there” needs to happen or not happen for us to achieve a sense of well-being and clarity.
Considering these process's in perception are automatic, without our consent or control allow me to ask one question. "How the hell do you plan to do THAT exactly?"

---
I challenge the author to eat a choclate cake baked from Faeces and Needles I've collected from a Heroin den and to "choose" that it will make him happy.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:17 pm 
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Waffle waffle, change your perceptions on reality.
Once we disconnect the external world from our own internal mind, we realise that we don’t need to do or say anything, we need no more advice from anybody, and nothing “out there” needs to happen or not happen for us to achieve a sense of well-being and clarity.
Considering these process's in perception are automatic, without our consent or control allow me to ask one question. "How the hell do you plan to do THAT exactly?"

---
I challenge the author to eat a choclate cake baked from Faeces and Needles I've collected from a Heroin den and to "choose" that it will make him happy.
What's interesting is that, when we look at people who have lost everything, or have always lived with little or nothing, we find that, on average, they are actually just as happy, or even happier than those of us with a comfortable lifestyle, the latest gadgets, and access to clean water, all the food we could possibly want, and more.

There are indeed individuals who would gladly be happy to sift through refuse similar to what you describe in order to find enough palatable foodstuffs to survive. They are just happy to have ANYTHING to eat at all, so happiness actually comes more EASILY to them, than it does to someone whose minimum expectation is caviar and champagne (and therefore finds themselves continually disappointed with anything of lesser quality).

What I'm NOT saying is "delude yourself into believing everything's perfect by just ignoring everything external." That's irrational. The external world does exist, and it's important to receive feedback from it, so you know where you are versus where you want to be.

What I AM saying is "don't tie your sense of well-being and happiness to the essentially arbitrary state of the external world." The never-ending ratrace we put ourselves through in the search for the next item of clothing, gadget, car, job or paycheque that'll definitely make us happy once we get it, stems from this fundamental CHOICE to interpret the external state of things as directly affecting our internal state "you MADE me unhappy," "the car MAKES me feel excited," "the money MAKES me feel secure."

THIS is the true delusion, because, of course, none of those things MAKES anybody anything. An inert object is not physically exerting a force through the air CAUSING you to feel ANYTHING! What's happening is you're DECIDING to feel happy because you are INTERPRETING the numbers on the bank statement, and making a decision that the number, being higher than it was previously, is going to make you more financially secure.

A poison, regardless of who eats it, actually MAKES people sick or dead. That is a physical and chemical reaction that is completely deterministic.

A bank statement of £1M will "make" a guy who had £100,000 beforehand absolutely ecstatic, but that same £1M will "make" a guy who had £10M depressed or maybe even suicidal! Clearly the same exact object cannot be "causing" two completely different things depending on the person! Of course it isn't - those two men have different mental states, and INTERPRET the same number in completely different ways, and they both CHOOSE to react in a certain way.

The way to live with a sense of contentment, then, is to just relax your "happiness standard" down to the bare minimum, as much as possible, and then every single day, every small triumph, and every little joy in life becomes an incredible gift and a wonder to experience and behold.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:54 pm 
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Waffle waffle, change your perceptions on reality.
Once we disconnect the external world from our own internal mind, we realise that we don’t need to do or say anything, we need no more advice from anybody, and nothing “out there” needs to happen or not happen for us to achieve a sense of well-being and clarity.
Considering these process's in perception are automatic, without our consent or control allow me to ask one question. "How the hell do you plan to do THAT exactly?"

---
I challenge the author to eat a choclate cake baked from Faeces and Needles I've collected from a Heroin den and to "choose" that it will make him happy.
What's interesting is that, when we look at people who have lost everything, or have always lived with little or nothing, we find that, on average, they are actually just as happy, or even happier than those of us with a comfortable lifestyle, the latest gadgets, and access to clean water, all the food we could possibly want, and more.

There are indeed individuals who would gladly be happy to sift through refuse similar to what you describe in order to find enough palatable foodstuffs to survive. They are just happy to have ANYTHING to eat at all, so happiness actually comes more EASILY to them, than it does to someone whose minimum expectation is caviar and champagne (and therefore finds themselves continually disappointed with anything of lesser quality).

What I'm NOT saying is "delude yourself into believing everything's perfect by just ignoring everything external." That's irrational. The external world does exist, and it's important to receive feedback from it, so you know where you are versus where you want to be.

What I AM saying is "don't tie your sense of well-being and happiness to the essentially arbitrary state of the external world." The never-ending ratrace we put ourselves through in the search for the next item of clothing, gadget, car, job or paycheque that'll definitely make us happy once we get it, stems from this fundamental CHOICE to interpret the external state of things as directly affecting our internal state "you MADE me unhappy," "the car MAKES me feel excited," "the money MAKES me feel secure."

THIS is the true delusion, because, of course, none of those things MAKES anybody anything. An inert object is not physically exerting a force through the air CAUSING you to feel ANYTHING! What's happening is you're DECIDING to feel happy because you are INTERPRETING the numbers on the bank statement, and making a decision that the number, being higher than it was previously, is going to make you more financially secure.

A poison, regardless of who eats it, actually MAKES people sick or dead. That is a physical and chemical reaction that is completely deterministic.

A bank statement of £1M will "make" a guy who had £100,000 beforehand absolutely ecstatic, but that same £1M will "make" a guy who had £10M depressed or maybe even suicidal! Clearly the same exact object cannot be "causing" two completely different things depending on the person! Of course it isn't - those two men have different mental states, and INTERPRET the same number in completely different ways, and they both CHOOSE to react in a certain way.

The way to live with a sense of contentment, then, is to just relax your "happiness standard" down to the bare minimum, as much as possible, and then every single day, every small triumph, and every little joy in life becomes an incredible gift and a wonder to experience and behold.
----------------

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If being monk doesn't suit you, then maybe this isn't what your after!
-----

It's a nice idea to believe people can change what makes then happy just by "thinking really really hard", but Orphans still want parents; bulimics still puke themselves to death, because they can't feel happy with their shape or recognise themselves as attractive and paedophiles regardless of how much mental torture they are undergoing to force themselves to not like it... still want to touch kids.

Humans are very much slaves to their perceptions and emotions that will inveitably involve money when you're living in a money dominated world, women, when your trying learn how to get laid, goals when your wanting to be a football player.

If you want to influence your own emotions and perceptions, then it'll take much more than "don't think x, think y".


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:17 pm 
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I liked the original text a lot. I feel it is true that our beliefs create our reality and if you change the beliefs, you change your reality. There are more reasons why this happens, IMHO.
Firstly, changing a limiting belief gives you a totally new perspective that inspires you to achieve goals more easily. It actually takes the same amount of hard work, but when you're inspired (positive motivation) versus motivated (negative motivation) it seems it happens more easily.
Secondly, it allows you to focus not only on your goal, but a general sense of well being that comes with the attitude of abundance versus focusing on the crappy feeling of lack of something you desire.
Thirdly (I'm sure many of you will call this mumbo jumbo, but I don't care), when you shift your focus from feeling the lack of something you desire to just feeling the pure desire for something, everything, the people, the circumstances etc. seem to align in just the right way as if it was orchestrated by the universe, if you will, to lead you to your goal.
Being content with where you are right now, not feeling envious, not feeling the lack of something puts you in a frame where you will more easily achieve all the things you desire, while being happy at the same time. The journey towards goals becomes joyful because your happiness is not conditioned by outside factors. Everyone feels like shit sometimes, that's ok, because without the contrast we wouldn't know the opposite side either. But when you focus on all the things you already have, when you can appreciate them and be grateful about them, you will automatically feel more happy. It's normal having wishes, it's normal to aspire, but (at least for me) the main goal in life is being as happy as possible as much time as possible, everything else is just details ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:40 am 
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It's a nice idea to believe people can change what makes then happy just by "thinking really really hard", but Orphans still want parents; bulimics still puke themselves to death, because they can't feel happy with their shape or recognise themselves as attractive and paedophiles regardless of how much mental torture they are undergoing to force themselves to not like it... still want to touch kids.

Humans are very much slaves to their perceptions and emotions that will inveitably involve money when you're living in a money dominated world, women, when your trying learn how to get laid, goals when your wanting to be a football player.

If you want to influence your own emotions and perceptions, then it'll take much more than "don't think x, think y".
This shows a huge amount about your own negative, self-limiting beliefs.

This recent article http://news.stanford.edu/news/2008/may7 ... 50708.html talks about a martial arts master who, just by "thinking really hard" can actually change his body temperature at will by 2-6 degrees! My SPAM is a doctor who spent time doing space medicine research with NASA - he says the training astronauts do also enables them to change everything from blood pressure to body temperature to heart rate, simply by using the power of their mind.

What your mind is capable of is only limited by what you BELIEVE is possible. You say people are slaves to their emotions and perceptions - I'm sure many people are, but that doesn't mean you have to be, or that there's nothing you can do about it!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:34 pm 
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This shows a huge amount about your own negative, self-limiting beliefs.
Is that really how you think about everyone else?

So not only are we a self help junkie stuck in la la land, we're a self help junkie stuck in la la land, thinking we're in a superior position because we live in la la land.
Quote:
This recent article http://news.stanford.edu/news/2008/may7 ... 50708.html
talks about a martial arts master who, just by "thinking really hard" can actually change his body temperature at will by 2-6 degrees! My SPAM is a doctor who spent time doing space medicine research with NASA - he says the training astronauts do also enables them to change everything from blood pressure to body temperature to heart rate, simply by using the power of their mind.
How does an example of meditation demonstrate the human minds ability to eat a shit and needles cake then "think themselves happy" while doing it?

Do YOU even understand that supposed link?
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What your mind is capable of is only limited by what you BELIEVE is possible. You say people are slaves to their emotions and perceptions - I'm sure many people are, but that doesn't mean you have to be, or that there's nothing you can do about it!
What part of automatic and un-controlled do you not understand? Honestly, if you haven't yet properly grasped meditation, the basic tennents of cognitive psychology, the intricacies of human emotion and desire... ...Why would you use any of these as examples for an argument about a phenomenon that you so clearly don't understand?

----
In truth I can sympathise. "Limiting beliefs" "you control your reality" used to be favourite terms of mine, I was blown away with just how many "limiting beliefs" other people had, and the possibilities if humanity could shed its limiting beliefs and control their reality to be a better person. It took me a couple of months of stepping BACK from the communtiy and alot of reflection before I started noticing what was going on in my head.

My 50 cents on this case? "Ryan can't accept himself for who he is. Part II"


Last edited by Fin on Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:29 pm 
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Fin your greatest mistake is assuming everyone is smart.Think of it this way,you can force yourself(without knowing) to believe in something if you need that.Think of fate crisis.Even if it's obvious there is no man in the sky,even if they understand all the bullshit in the bible,many will say that they want it to be true and that they really believe it.

When i first became an atheist i explained to a very smart friend.We talked for hours about it, i proved everything but his excuse was that we(humans) can't understand,that's why it seems its bullshit and stupid....even now he goes to church.

If you want to believe yourself to happyness you can't as a normal person,only if the influence is big enough.Think of people receiving medication that does nothing.Because they believe,some get better(don't know the name in English now...)

so can this really help you?i don't know...i'l let you two decide,because obviously you know more about this than me.This would work if you go fight club and loose everything you have,living in a non consumerism oriented world...maybe then you will start to believe,and after you hit bottom,you will see things differently.But that's extreme


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:00 pm 
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THINKING differently changes little. FOCUSING differently is more effective.

With premature ejaculation, thinking about it worsens the problem. Changing your focus alleviates it.

Same thing applies here.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:12 am 
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A poison, regardless of who eats it, actually MAKES people sick or dead. That is a physical and chemical reaction that is completely deterministic
Not true. Even things that seem deterministic physically or chemically are often in our minds. Those crazy yogis sometimes swallow poison, chat, do their yoga stuff, and SHIT THAT poison out instead of absorbing it. It's an exercise of your controlling our voluntary muscles to a point of controlling our involuntary muscles. (What I am saying is that I agree with you even more than you agree with yourself)

However,
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What your mind is capable of is only limited by what you BELIEVE is possible.
It takes more than what we perceive as "belief".


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:19 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:34 pm 
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The attitude of, lets examine, evaluate and change our perceptions/feelings. Sounds a lot like, "Hey lets use my magnifying glass to look at my magnifying glass".

----
You just can't get the introspection to consciously go "ok here's event x, PAUSE WHILE PLANNING... so I'll percieve it in manner y, meaning I feel z"

At best guys manage to go "ok here's event x, so I'll percieve it in manner y...... ......why the fuck do I still feel x?"

----
What we could change is our disposition to feel and percieve certain things this isn't really about choosing how to react as oppossed to ingraining a mindset, this takes something outside of the suggested "wait... pretend your an african orphan.. wow life is hunky dory by comparison!"

And its effect are not nearly as crude as, "yum, shit n needles cake.... my... err... favourite"


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