To answer the first part, read selfish gene back when I was 17 and a shouty little brat who liked arguing about areas I had no knowledge in, Red Queen I remember ploughing through amogsnt a pile of other stuff. As for the extended phenotype, I haven't read it.

Is your second part alluding to the "sneaky bugger" phenomenon?

(Animals fore-saking normal social mating concerns in order to impregnate the females without the alpha males knowing; the famous one being smaller octopuses pretending to be females in order to avoid having to fight with males for breeding rights)

Somewhat, yes (it's also called "stealthy copulations"), but there's a little more to it than that. Has to do with the huge advantage inherent in not having to provide any resources for the offspring...

And then there's the more altruistic approach which involves nurturing of the pregnant female as well as the offspring.

Any sort of serial PUA activity is absolutely roguish in nature. If it wasn't roguish it wouldn't work.

Everything is strategy. Many seemingly-complex things such as reproductive strategy are in fact genetically coded. This is a large part of the reason why alphas are alpha and betas are beta, and why betas have such difficulty breaking out of the role-- it's possible to do but not necessarily easy.

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When in Doubt, Freeze Her Out.

That would be true were we discussing pro-creative sex, but we're not. We're discussing re-creational sex.

Right but it's always true.

Since effective birth control wasn't invented until comparatively recently, our bodies and genetic programming-- men's as well as womens'-- don't know the difference. The genetic programming and the instincts and hormones that drive us are still the same as they were a hundred thousand years ago, give or take.

Reproductive strategies that were effective a hundred thousand years ago may be maladaptive in many ways in the modern urban environment.

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When in Doubt, Freeze Her Out.

Hobbs I have now saved that quote, I will need it in future!

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Spandrel.

The problem is that these strategies are about investment not seduction methods.

They cover AFTER-CARE of offspring. So whatever possible biolgoical patterns there are, they simply don't affect the specefic act of picking up a girl.

Fin, you seem to be not understanding what I'm saying. I give huge points to anyone who has read ANY of the books I've mentioned but I just feel like I'm talking in Chinese here and I have nothing invested in whether or not I'm understood.

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When in Doubt, Freeze Her Out.

Idk man, I'm starting to think that some guys are just better with women then others. I'm hellah frustrated right now, I've tried not being nice and all that shit, never works for me. I just suck socially. Tried not being nice, and still not being nice, never became a misogynist like many men who become frustrated with women. I've fought the good fight. PUA is for the hard of heart, and not the weak of heart :/.

Just stop caring, have fun, relax. And try to find out what tick them.
You're frustrated because you want it too much.

Translation: "The reason you're not on my side is because you don't understand" - That sounds rather well... I shouldn't have to given an adjective.
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You've already posted nearly twice that you're "not interested in discussing this topic", yet everytime I post you reply. A golden rule in Pick up is that actions speak louder than words! I wonder if 3 times a charm and you'll post again anyway?

I think you DO want to discuss this, but things haven't quite worked as you had intiially imagined, so you're trying to cut it short and claim some intellectual high ground for my "inability to understand".

You're funnier than I thought.

Continue this and I'll watch. Entertain me as long as you wish.

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When in Doubt, Freeze Her Out.

At first you were the well read evolutionary psychologist, now that that bridge has been burned you're trying to play the "king and the jester" card who's awfuly entertained by his subjects antics. I wonder what role you'll take once the people realise their king is the real fool and regicide gets on peoples lips!

Maybe the apathetic guru.
"I don't really care man, I just know I'm right and to show you how little I care I'm going to argue all the while telling everyone "I don't care""

The jig is up, everyone can see you're just cycling through persona's that make no sense, to avoid the conclusion that you know.... ....nothing.