Following scenario:

A girl i kinda liked in highschool (2-3 years ago, the type of girl i would like a long healthy relationship with) , never talked to her just saw here and was to pussy to say anything etc.

Saw her fb profile like 3-4 weeks ago while with a friend, he knew her but only back in highschool, didnt keep in touch with her after that, i mentioned i liked her and stuff. 2-3 days after he met and randomly on the street, they chatted short and the guy asked her if she's single , she said yes.

He told me she was single etc. I added her on fb a week later and messaged her something along the lines of "hey i had a common friend said he chatted with you a couple of days ago and when i heard your name my eyes sparkled remembering you, bla bla, how can we keep in touch" she responded friendly and said she has no ideea how to keep in touch.

I messeged her like 2-3 times didnt respod then i threw in the "owww your shy , how cute" she responded and gave me her chat id, we chatted very friendly and i said like a retard "so if i asked you out on a date it would have to be perfect time and place cause of your busy schedule" she responded friendly, suggested we go out for a coffee but didnt really want to go on a actual "date" , told me she hasnt been on a date in a while and didnt want to give me her phone number saying that she doesnt really know me etc.

3-4 days past and didnt hear from her, she finally got online and i said hello etc and she said that we can go out tomorrow and exchanged numbers , i worked late till like 9 pm she said its no problem, she doesnt usually go out that late with strangers but i really seem like a nice guy, so we met at almost 10pm at a local place for some coffee.

We talked about highschool and memories laughed a lot shared eye contact a lot. I kept eye contact with her while she was talking and let her be the first to break eye contact with me, i wanted to grab her hand but she was always doing something with them, playing with her hair, playing with the coffee etc. she is a very open person, and very animatic talks about anything, not so shy as i thought about talking with a stranger. If i would of taken her hand in there im pretty sure it would've created a very awkward moment. so i decided to say lets walk to the nearest subway station together, i showed my hand to her and she said "holding hands?" and she grabbed my arm at the elbow region just like a bride grabs her groom. she didnt hold on that tight although her purse was always dropping from her shoulder because of this she just quit putting the purse back on her shoulder rather than let go.

She told me that she asked a former girl colleague of mine about me and she described me as an afc ( nice guy, good to hand around with ), we had a good conversation, she was talking a whole lot and i was thinking to myself let her qualify herself to me , the more she talks the better, about her family about her bff and what shes been threw with her etc.

After the handhold denial i thought to myself that shes not really yet. we split up at the subway etc.

I messaged her today ( we met yesterday ) "so how was the first impression about me" she responded something like your a very nice guy that girl was right youre fun to hand around with , thanks for the tea. I replied "wasnt the reaction i was looking for but its good for now" and then she told me she has a boyfriend and she didnt want to mislead me into anything else and that she should've told me, that shes not the type that dates 2 people, and that she met some guys that said that their not interested in friendship just in becoming lovers.and she still wants to meet up if I still want to. i texted her that it was kinda dumb i didnt ask and that i still wanna meet up.

Thats about it , i am pretty sure she doesnt have a boyfriend otherwise as so open she is she would've mentioned him long time ago , plus she went out with a stranger late at night, so im thinking this is her first attempt from her to make me break rapport with her.


Thats what i think its happening, but its only my opinion, and i dont know where to take this, to still try to escalate next time i see her cause i build enough comfort and rapport that i dont want to end up in the friend zone.




Throw in your opinion please, cause i have no ideea where to take this.
If you have any questions feel free to ask.


Thank you!

Vio.

First off - you problebly started on a bit of a wrong basis. Your frame was depicted as being a normal, friendly & good Mr Nice guy. There is nothing wrong with that though, but if you are seriously about picking this girl up. You need to realise that this frame won't help your game anything forward except friendship. Learn to adjust your frame.

Second off - your answer spooked her off like hell. Realise this - it was way to straight forward and it gave her the impression you are looking for a relationship. Remark - you only get away with this if you are a lot of C&F..

My advice, really escalating would be a bit of the question, atleast for now. Let it roll over for a little while & then go back to her.

≠ LD

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thank you LD for the tips.

Quick update:

We went out a week later for a walk and we walked threw the city and threw the park like 3-4 hour, and i managed to realize that the first time we went out i just build comfort and no rapport, so i wrote some stuff on my phone on how to build rapport and used it throughout the time we spent together, i was way more relaxed and listened to what she had to say, learning a lot of things about her, tips about things she doesnt like etc...

I brought the chat deeper, like past relationships etc, much more personal , wasnt really keen on seeing what we had in common, and i think it worked first time she said it wasnt a date and the second i mentioned the first time i fell in love she was all like, its strange that you told me that usually i dont talk with guys about past relantionships especially on a date.

So in my mind what you said was true, she got freaked out and thats why she said she had a boyfriend, she was a lot more relaxed and qualified a lot , also i was very into the conversation cause i learned a lot about her and what she didnt like from her past relationships, also she told me what type a girl she is in a relationship ( i take that as a good thing ).

Today we texted each other a little ( saw each other yesterday ) , im planning on chilling for the next 1-2 days and then invite her for a game of badminton ( wich she said she loves) with 2 of my friends ( their a couple ) .

Also when she was talking while we we're walking she did these light touches on my shoulder and elbow, so im thinking next time with the badminton plan im gonna go for the hand-grab , and tell here in a slow ,paused , eye contact, lip-licking way "i never told you but you have a beautiful smile, and *pause* im trying so hard not to kiss you right now" and see what she does.

Gimme your thoughts on this, is it too soon? i really dont want to fall into the "i wanna be friends" zone, id forvever hate myself for not even trying to go further with her.

Ow, and one more thing, she doesnt seem to have much initiative, i think its because she's shy, like she doesnt text me if i dont text first and the answers are full of thoughts and exciting, not the meh this guy texted me again type. Should i worry or is it too soon for that to happen yet? i mean to see her take a step forward...

Thank you!

Vio.

You're being too nice and worried too much about building and maintaining rapport.

Here are things that risk BREAKing rapport, but will actually BUILD ATTRACTION

1. Disagreeing with her
2. Making fun of her
3. Using sexual innuendo
4. Moving your touching past friendly to sexual
5. Trying to kiss her
6. Holding sexual eye contact and not saying anything

You need to pepper your interaction with these elements in order for her to stop seeing you as a "nice guy" and more as a sexual threat, as someone she wants to fuck, not just be friends with.

Your emphasis on hand holding is a little strange. For me personally, I'm not gonna be holding hands with a girl in public until I've had sex with her a few times and am actually in a proper relationship with her. Definitely make sure you're touching her, but try just shoulders, arms, small of back, legs, kissing, ass, etc. NEVER look where you're touching.

Next date, just sit somewhere like a lounge on a couch where you can sit close, get your arm around her, etc, have a few drinks, bring up sexual themes, and then take her back to your place. Once you get in, slow down your speech, look at her lips and eyes slowly, and then kiss her.

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Now that you mentioned it your right, i see that i do have a strange emphasis on hand holding...

Man i can't believe how much of a pussy i am, beeing scared of loosing this girl and risking becoming a bitch myself by not doing anything.

ok, so quick update i got a message from her like 20 minutes ago, in wich she said she either wanted me to join her and her gang in a club on friday or saturday night or in the weekend to go for a 1 day mountain escape with her and her best friend, i have no fcking ideea what to make of this for real...

am i really that dumb that i cant figure it out or is this complicated and strange...?

First off do not say your dumb man. Just chill and listen more than you talk. Relax. Now assess this. At the club is an exciting environment and you can dhv to her by showing how you interact with others. If you do go do not go by yourself shes with her gang and has social value so add to the party and bring the coolest people you know. Make sure they know whats up and you can trust them. Make your friends and her friends buddys. At the club get hugs from EVERYONE. Just shine. Have a huge smile on but not like a Joker smile just like a Steve O smile lol just communicate that fun energy. You cant be afraid

I would also write down what blonde guy told you the goal isnt to up the romanticism its to make her wet. So increase that sexual tension and when things go crazy and shes fawning all over you then just dissappear. Go into another mode basically. Give her what she wants! make her emotions crazyy! Then pull back and notice how fast she'll try to keep kissing you. Its kinda like cat string theory. I hope you understand what I mean.

If you go to the mountains cool have fun just focus on it being a really cool trip. I would bring board games movies anything to make it more fun because at this point you need to spike that up lol. If you hit the slopes or go play with snow flirt with her in the snow. Some of the things youve said were perfect just have a more attractive energy when you say it dont be desperate for a reply back almost put some sarcasm in there. Know what I mean? And definitely be cool with anything she might say. She might not be as warm as you might want her to be oh well but dont get down on yourself. Failing is not cool but falling and failing really sucks. So dont fall when you fail stay up and show strentgh get to know her better over the weekend come out of your shell and make it a trip to be remembered.

But I would go to the club because you dont need a comfy time in the mountains with a friend you need a crazy night out that will change the way she sees you as a guy. Then she wont want to just touch your shoulder she will want you to give her head and never stop.

One more thing come out of your shell as much as possible but nEVER be someone else still stay true to yourself find the perfect balance between the character you and the part of you youve been demonstrating to her which is a nice trustworthey dude keep being that but also dont be afraid to be more exciting

I have the feeling shes giving you a chance but she definitely isnt on the level where she will fight for u and really feel that attraction. Focus on body language, kino, listening, timing and building a more positive attractive spirit and even if you dont get her your going to come out out a better guy.

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aiden k. baker

Everything Aiden and the other guys in here touched on is right on the money. These events you are talking about (da club,mtn trip) I would really make these the focal points of your relationship with this girl.

If I had a choice on which trip I would goto, I would pick the MTN trip over the club. But only if I knew if her best friend was solo or bringing her boyfriend. The reason I say this is. If her friend is bringing a boyfriend. That means she is free to interact with you more and her friend won't really be in the way to cock block you for say. Her boyfriend and her will be too busy doing romantic things themselves. She will then be more or less forced to focus on you more without a lot of the detractions she would get with a group of friends in the club. Also it eliminates you having to bring friends to "match" her friends in the club. That's just wayyy too much work if you ask me and I always go the easier route. If this is the scenario it works in your favor. Alot of getting to know each other can happen alot faster in the woods. You can go on short walks through the camp with her, share interesting stories with each other. Or talk more about your goals in life and shit like that. And then holding hands might be more appropriate. Girls want to feel safe, and in this type of environment, it makes more sense, because of all the animals and creatures running around the camp. There is not alot of people pressure to judge her or you for holding hands and stuff. The only ones that will see any of it is the birds and the bees. And If you can take advantage of the tent while her friend and the other girl are out walking around. It could be a big bonus for you! I just think it would be bar more opportunities for sparks to fly in the woods than in a club.

In the club she will be too worried about looking good and staying clean and wearing her best gear in front of her friends and shit. Also her guard will be up all night, fighting off all the other playas in there that will be trying to spit game at her . It puts her in a position to even fight you off easier if you too was to make some kind of wrong move. And on top of that, what if she does see someone that does catch her eye. Where does that leave you? Since you and her are not really together for say. She can easily just cut you out the picture altogether in that type of environment. Why even put yourself in that position if you have options??? Where else in the woods, her guard will be pretty much down. You the only one that can be in her ear all night. And you don't have alot of pressure as far as time. You got all day and nite to keep in that bitch ear. And her worrying about staying clean is not really the point out there. Wearing some beat up jeans is normal as well as no make up or other things girls normally have to make a fuss about at the club. She also doesn't have to really impress a lot of people out there. You have to keep in mind that girls that look good. Always worry about what other hoes think of them and what they are wearing in the clubs.

Now if that is not the case and you end up with the club option. I would not put too much focus on her. You want her to think that you are a hard catch and you have other options in that club that you can chase rather than her. This will draw her closer to you. As soon as I got to the club, I would say stuff like, damn... look at all the fine ass girls in here. I'm hoping to find a winner go-getter in here. Someone that can keep up with me. Her hearing this will make her try to get your attention even more because you have just basically told her your options are open to any bitch in there and you not locked down to no one including her. She will do one or 2 things. Shy away from you, or come at you harder. Either way, you will now know where she really stands and rather she is worth even pursuing or not. Whatever you do in both matters....

Good Luck Maan.

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Ok, so quick Update:



So the plans got canceled cause her bff had to work and she said the plans got canceled , she still wanted to go out to the club but i had to fcking work when she wanted to go out so it was like shit...

We went out eventually, and we talked and connected a bit, then 2 friends of mine joined us( their a couple) in at a local place, i saw her getting comfortable with me so i started getting her hair out of her eyes, caressing and kissing her on the cheek with a grin on my face cause i really think she is to damn shy to make a move on her own..., everything went ok, we we're holding arms all day long. then came the moment we split up, i had my arm around her and she had to get off the subway so i said come here let me give you a kiss ( like we kissed on the cheek when saw each other) and i went for the lips, i only got half a kiss cause she turned her head a little then i grabbed her arms and said why, she started to get tears in her eyes and said "you know we talked about this..." then i said let me have a little kiss so she leaned in but again just a little off from her lips.

I texted her telling her to text me when she gets home so i know that she got home ok cause she lives in a shit neighbourhood.

She texted me a long message telling me basically that she's with this guy for 2.5 years and thats its a distance thing and that their argueing and fighting all the time lately, her mom doesnt approve and her dad doesnt know.

But here's the part that makes me think that she's lying again, and thats the reason beside making her really comfortable that i really listen to what they say, cause i get valuable information, last date she said that she hooked up with this guy like 2-3 months ago and it was something like a week thing. so im pretty much sure its either going really awfull with that guy or she's lying.
Also she told me in the text that she's afraid to start all over again with me and that she's gonna tell me the whole story with this guy if we meet up again if i want to hear it.

So i texted her back and told her i understand and i wanna still meet up.

I texted her today ( saw her 2 days ago) telling her about my day, had a real crazy day , very very fun. she responded that shes out shopping and she's gonna answer slow, plus i might have told her that i didnt call her to invite her to join my crazy day cause i dont wanna look like a needy and stressful person ( my mistake), also squeezed in there a , so we're still meeting up this weekend right? and she usually answers quickly so i dont know how to take this.




Now what im thinking is that its all a waiting game, if i insist its gonna happen but she is a very very and i mean very sensible person , thats confirmed from some friends also so im thinking i have to really want this to go on otherwise it might take me 3-4-5-6- who knows how many dates before i kiss her let alone get laid. But again i want a relationship with this girl not a one time lay.
Also i started to really like her so i dont want to invest feelings for someone thats gonna be a dissapointment did that a lot in the last years and i always was the one who couldnt live with myself after.


I dunno thats my opinion, what do you guys think? am i wasting time and its not gonna happen or should i lay low and let her talk to her GF and see what she does next, ?


Thanks for all of your answers, im just taking this day by day...

Vio.

And one more thing i didnt mention, i would rather loose this girl for insisting to much and trying to kiss her then to end up in the friend zone with her, i would kick myself so much because when that day will come i can call myself a b*tch.

you are solidly in the friendzone.

it happened on the first date.

website search, see: escaping from the friendzone.

so pretty much i have to start breaking rapport and flirt with her? or at least its the right thing to start with, and this is gonna start triggering stuff like she's gonna hit me with her fist? cause i havent been in the friendzone for long i mean i barely met the get 16-17 days ago and we only talked for 2-3 days before we went out...

and frankly as i posted above id rather dont have her in my life and go back to chasing random girls for looks then become her bestfriendforever....

doesnt matter its about what SHE feels.
Dont make this all about you.
Now if I were you I would text her a lot less and make yourself more desirable. Give off something other than being nice. What you need now is feeling man and not talking to her for awhile and maybe focusing on some other girls will help. It also sounds like shes seeing other guys or at least wants you to think that. Nows not the time to worry about her. I would practise approaching. 5 times a day. And not talk to her for a week. Then just come back stronger.

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aiden k. baker

thank you very much for the answer Aiden, im gonna lay low for a while , i kinda have a short temper by nature and i deleted her number from my phone , but i have a easy way to get it back so ill just chill for a week or so and then message her to go out and if she declines well then, its really nothing more i want to do.

I am desired by girls by nature, but a strange thing always happens, for the girls i want to be desired by i act like an idiot afc, and for the ones that i dont but they like me i act like a freaking alpha male, and i make them more attracted to me... but its not happening cause i want to, just my lack of interest in them makes me act a certain way witch makes them always touching me grabbing my nipples as a joke, wanting my attention so i said to myself this is the last girl im ever gonna act nice as an afc im not saying i wont respect them from now on, im just going to be myself and not try to impress them like i did in the past cause obviously my trying is afc and my not trying makes them attracted to me.

i personally think this happens because i lack confidence in myself , and that i have to pretend im someone else in order to be attractive, wich so far it doesnt work out, i mean ive been called a manwhore at work by a girl who is hot and i dont like her and ive been acting like i do with all the girls i dont want, just by my looks and behavior they think im somekind of guy who is always surrounded by women and i always am going out with a different girl. So if other people see it, it must be there im just to idiot not to act myself around girls i like.

Im just putting to much emphasis on girls i want, i should treat them as i give them a chance to meet me if they dont take it its their loss and i should move on, cause i really saw some girls i liked the past weeks, the kind of freaks i like to be exact, really short, really cute, maybe glasses , preferably slim. But often in my experience those girls were fcking crazy, and i mean real psychopaths... What can i say i have a weird thing for them...

Ill have to go with what you said, lay low go meet new girls and who knows maybe ill like one of them more than i like this one. Time to grow some fcking ballz and go from AFC to a guy who is confident and desirable.

Bottom line, if i see this girl again ill be myself, all or nothing baby. Who knows maybe shell fall in love with me and ill realize how much of a retard ive been for trying to seem like someone im not. Cause im a nice guy by heart but i am a crazy son a bitch with all my friends and people that im sure are not going to freak out when i do crazy stuff cause they know this side of me. I tend to believe that people think having a crazy fun side is wrong...

Vio.

quick update!


i stopped getting in touch with her for about 12 days then she messaged me online , asking me how am i etc...

so i decided to give it another try and asked her out again, but this time i asked "ok so we're going out but what does your BF say about you seeing another guy?"

and she replied well i had a friend like this we used to go out shopping and he was coming over at my house and stuff, and my bf would call me and i would tell me exactly what we're doing, and my BF has nothing against me going out with a guy and just talking or going shopping.

so im just gonna text her in a couple of hours saying that something came up and i cant make it anymore.

cause i really fucked up the first day, didnt flirt at all i was like a fcking vegetable with ears.

im just gonna stop answering stop answering to text and online and everything, maybe give it a retry in a couple of months . cause for now this is too retarded for me and i feel im just gonna make it harder to comeback later if i go with this friendzone,

or i can throw in like a last message "im sorry i cant make it today, but good for you cause my gf would kill me if she heard i was "talking" to another girl"

untill then, NEXT!


Peace, Vio.