Why most women hate the idea of PUA's and why they don't want to sleep with you:

"LOL ofc those dumb sluts don't hate PUA's they just wanna bang me and even their mum wants to bang me lol dumb sluts."

"Haha, I totally want to bang that dumb sluts mum and sister, all of them are fucking hot and such whores"

Sound familiar? It should as it could easily be an extract from the chat or from many of the posts on the forum.
The problem is that this kind of attitude doesn't help you get in bed with attractive, high quality women. It doesn't help you be cool and it isn't a DHV.
It just makes you look like a 14 year old pre-pubescent kid who is trying to hang out with the big boys and act tough. The thing is, everyone knows that story about the time you had sex with a sweedish super model while saving a nun, from a bear, that was on fire, is total bullshit.


The problem is, this kind of attitude just reinforces the opinion of many about what a pick up artist is like - it is also why many people think it is total bullshit that it works.
Have a look over the forum or in the chat, look at how much of what people say comes across as creepy and weird. If you were a girl, would you ever talk to a guy who acted like that?
I asked Roz to get her opinion:
So how not to be creepy:
- Stop trying to be something you're not. The key isn't to do lots of brilliant things but to do something brilliantly. The only way you get good at something is to work at it - stop talking about the hb11 you got last night (that was really a hb6 and it was a hug) and get out and improve your life. Then you can actually talk about things you really did.

- Start treating women like women. They are not sluts, whores or anything - they are people. If you follow my first point, you will actually talk to real women and realise this.

- Start treating yourself like a man. This is where most guys get things wrong - a nice guy is too far in one direction while a bad boy is too far in the other. They both have desirable traits but both are complete idiots as well. Start being a man, treat people with respect but also respect yourself enough to say no.

- Look at characters like James bond - he is always polite, assertive, confident etc etc. He never turns round and tells someone about that stupid slut he fucked last night.

Now, its question time:-

What are your opinions on how your view women vs your success with women?

Are you brilliant at anything? If not, what is your plan to get brilliant!

If you read the posts on this forum with your girlfriend, do you think she would find how people speak on the forum attractive?

Do you think women dislike PU because of what they think we do, or what most people who try it are creepy?

Madals

HAHAHAHA!

Great post.

1. No "DHVing." Stop thinking in these terms. It's weird. You can OPEN with a story about you did something retarded or a situation going badly if you like, as long as it's funny and you deliver it in a confident way. The best DHV is the mindset of just knowing you ARE high value, of being able to talk about things with authority, knowledge and passion, not of having to TELL people how high value you are.

2. If you're not getting the success you want, take a step back and look at the rest of what's going on in your life. If you spend all the time you're not sarging reading ebooks and watching videos about sarging, you'll NEVER create a rich, diverse, interesting, fun-filled life that a woman would actually want to be a part of.

3. Be generally SOCIAL. Talk to guys and girls, and just try and make a connection and maybe make a FRIEND or two. Not to DHV, not to turn into a wing or a pivot, not to try and game their friends. Just for the pleasure of meeting someone new and interesting and finding out about them. If nothing else, it's great practice for how to keep conversations going and be interesting and funny.

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are you suggesting we act like normal people??

hmm idk seems risky

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All that is suggested is people drop the act.

Everyone knows when somebody is acting, both guys and females.

The term normal is highly overrated. That said, not acting like, or, better yet, not being an immature, pre-pubescent boy is always a great start.

was a joke.
oh alrite within 2 standard deviations of the norm

We should act normal and be PUA's at same time??? is that possible?

both statements jokes.

Meh maybe its just me, but the same topics keep showing up. I'm just lurkin waiting for the next 60's revolution; just feels like everything Ive seen lately is just rehashed shit from bristollair or seduction intution.
good post madals but I just feel like I keep reading the same stuff.

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This right here is what its about. Finding that balance between being an asshole and being a push over pussy.

But a 14 year old pre-pubescent kid who is trying to hang out with the big boys and act tough IS THE typical member of this forum . . . regardless of his real age.


They come off as creepy and weird because THEY ARE creepy and weird.
Even if they are creepy and weird? Shouldn't the advice be, "PLEASE TRY to be something you are not. You are creepy and weird. Stop it.
Come on . . . there's a time and place for this. You do it quietly with your buddies over a few beers . . .and use some better language. She's not a stupid slut . . . she's a naive girl with a big heart . . .
Curious creatures. Temperamental but forgiving. Emotionally vulnerable but trusting. Intuitive and wise but always second guessing. Mentally powerful enough to move mountains one moment and but breaks down over a broken nail the next moment. You gotta love her curves . . . the physical curves obviously but also the curves in their opinions, emotions, attitudes.

I'd say that most guys have trouble simply accepting the whole package. These things are attributes as well as 'pain-in-the-ass' once in a while. Just learn to enjoy the whole thing and laugh it off. . . and if you catch them in a 'weird cycle', just wait a few minutes. Women have the ability to shift their position towards the positive just as easily as they shift towards the negative. . . and know that you have the power to influence these situations.
Again, these guys are weird and creepy in real life. That's why they're here.

In my opinion, the view on how you look at woman is just a fact of how much things that aren't going "right" in your life. You start blaming other people for your 'failures' because it's easy, without confronting yourself with the true & hard reality.

"What better to blame than a woman" is the mindset of a lot of guys coming here.
BUT There is only 1 reality - when you blame, don't blame them, blame yourself for not knowing yourself. Go find yourself before actually trying to do a lot of things that you are currently incapable for.
Everybody is brilliant! A lot of people do not know the correct way of showing it. Every guy, girl, animal - lifeform- excels in a specific thing. It's just a matter of time & experience to acknowledge it.
I think that's relative. Each person differs - but when you look at the general concept. No, it isn't attractive. It just is as it is.
I actually had a long discussion about this topic with a female friend of mine. She explained that the standard view of PUA's is actually that they abuse woman for their own benefits. I answered with one sentence and one sentence only...
≠ LD

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That's exactly the reason I argue that newbies should be first taught how to be SOCIAL, then SEDUCTIVE. Let them spend few moths as a normal social person, make bunch of girl-friends, and they'll never call girls "sluts", "whores" and etc. Although, being social , hardly will get you laid, that'll be a great foundation. AA will be gone, conversational and social abilities greatly improved-overall better person.

Only after a guy made few friends with girls, and spent some time with them, he should start doing the whole seduction thing.

Start with seduction, and you'll be in trouble.

PUA might be about picking up girls, but it was created by guys who broke up with their GFs and wanted to be loved. Almost nobody comes to PU with idea "I wanna fuck 10000 chicks".

One Christian monk-in-training told me: " If you want a 10, you gotta be a 10."

I totally agree with him.

I have a deep belief, that if you an be the best person you can, girl who is best for you (the one) will be yours.

(let's not forget tat everybody has is/her perfect 10, thanks to biology, since that greatly decreases competition LOL).

Don't get me wrong-seduction is crucial, but I believe, that in learning process it should be put after being social.

@blondguy- I absolutely agree about DHV's with you, but there is use to them too. After reading some stories person'll get the idea of how not to start talking about what you have/are. "this Rolex I bought yesterday costs $10,000. Cool Huh?"

Having stack of material in your head seems creepy and weird, to me, but I believe, a person needs to have some ideas of how to talk about some thing/quality that you have without looking like you're showing off.(which instantly turns everybody(gold diggers excluded) off)

not all guys here want to be social.

What kind of guys does this idea of PU attract????
Here are the major clusters, if someone has a reason for being here that is not included in this please let me know.
Women would not date most types of these guys.

Cluster 1:Guys with onetitis
type A: Guys who lost their GF and want her back
type B: Guys who have been LJBF'd or friend zone and still want her
type C: Guys who obsess over a girl but can barely even speak to her

Cluster 2: Virgin types
type A: little to no sexual experience usually extending into older ages
type B: Sex crazed adolescents

Cluster 3: New bachelors w/o oneitis
type A: wants to touch up on skills
type B: was tied up in relationship most of life, little to no PU skills

Cluster 4: Unsocially skilled or awkward people
type A: people who want to be social
subtype 1: General problem: introverts, socially anxious, similar etc
subtype 2: dysfunctional problem: Aspergers*, ADHD, BoPD*, similar etc
type B:people who want women but care not for socialization
subtype 1: Antisocial Disorder*, similar* etc
subtype 2: schizoid*, schizotypals*, etc
*-indicating most likely not diagnosed

Cluster 1 usually does not stay long.
Cluster 2 and 3 are the typical of PUA's in training or are PUA's.
Cluster 4 is a clusterfuck, most of the creepy and wierds part of this cluster
Note: may be part of multiple clusters

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@Jelly

Type 1 and 4 are guys we are talking here. The ones who call women "sluts" and "whores". They need this the most.

Type 2 needs to be social-to not give up.. If they succeed a bit they'll feel like the shit(and when reality kicks in , they'll be very disappointed and start calling everybody sluts and ho's and saying that PU is BS)

If they don't succeed initially(which is perfectly normal) they'll give up and go on saying that PU is BS. The reason to be social here is , when they see what interesting and beautiful creatures women are, they won't give up, and this will be a great motivation for them.

Type 3-probably you're right. This might be the type that needs social skills least. But they're just little percentage of the forum.

And good social skills are useful for everybody and will help in many aspects of life.(including PU).

When you start Jiu-Jitsu, they usually teach you how to fall correctly first. When you start weightlifting they teach safety and gym ethics first. When you teach how to shoot from a gun, you teach to keep the gun down and not point at people. Start with attitude, then go into skills. Start simple and safe(friendly people almost never get rejected) then go advanced.

IMHO.

Since this seems the appropriate context for it (ie. I'm a woman, and I don't like PU), I'll delve in.

I've probably already made my opinions pretty clear on this forum but, to reiterate, I would not date someone I knew to have studied pickup. That's my general policy and, as always, there may be exceptions to it, but I find it easier to have a strict policy with the occasional license to deviate from rather than have no policy at all.

I don't trust PU. I don't trust how it teaches guys to interact with or view women. I distrust the abundance mentality that it teaches. I distrust the emphasis on sex. I distrust the emphasis that it places on a woman's appearance. I distrust the whole "leave her better than you found her" motto. I distrust the idea that picking copious amounts of women is somehow a noteworthy and laudable goal rather than a desperate and somewhat pathetic attempt to be noticed or validated by others.

Don't get me wrong--I don't believe in a one-and-only in any sense. Realistically, every person is compatible with multiple other people , and when you lose sight of that, or feel that there is only one person who could ever possibly make you happy, you're in a very bad place with few good options. That said, overcompensating (ie. the idea that you could always be with someone better) can be taken to too much of an extreme, resulting in someone who will never be happy with any romantic partner.

Neither attraction, looks nor sexual chemistry are enough to provide the foundation for a successful long-term relationship. Looks fade. Attraction wanes. Dynamic sexual chemistry does not necessarily translate into compatibility outside of the bedroom. For one, I would much prefer to be with someone who loves me and that I'm actually compatible with rather than the guy who, while unbeatable in the bedroom, has little else to offer.

"Leave her better than you found her" is a nice-sounding motto, I'll admit. The problem? Who decides what better actually constitutes? The slogan is inherently condescending and paternalistic because it presumes that the PUA knows better than the woman he's trying to seduce. Realistically, I'm sure that, at some point or another during the course of our lives, we have felt as though we know better than someone close to us. It's really hard to stand back and watch someone that you love go down a path that you consider to be detrimental, and even harder when that path, although perfect for the individual going down it, fundamentally clashes with your own definition of the good. Any philosophy that teaches you can know better than all of these other people is dangerous, both to those you are supposedly leaving "better than you found" and to the one who holds such a belief. Constantly subscribing to and being told that you know better what these women need or want than they do means that you start discounting their own thoughts and wishes on the matter. It means that you become arrogant and condescending, whether or not you display it.

I honestly don't understand the appeal of going out and picking up people that you're never going to see again. What have you actually achieved? A few moments of fleeting happiness, sure, but what's left at the end? She leaves, you have a notch on your belt, and then you need to go find someone else in order to continue receiving the validation that you cannot give yourself.

Melissa, for somebody who's trying to express the 'weirdness' of pu, you share a lot of common habits with creepy wannabe puas.

1. The policy: Every pick up retard is proud of some policy or another. "I have a no 'bullshit' policy" is a popular one. "I have a policy to date only hb'x's or above" is another. "My policy is to call x times and that's it.". . . If you can take the pain of reading more, do a search for 'policy'. I can't muster the guts to do it . . . I'm wondering, is your dad an insurance salesman? Are you aspiring to be one? Do you write up little contracts on post-its to put on your mirror? How about just breathing, living, and meeting people trusting your own intuitions? Or if you must have policies, how about policies on some tangible things like IQ? Height? Weight? Race? Level of body odor? Size of penis?

2. "I don't trust _____": You can like something or dislike something but when you begin putting so much weight on anything so insignificant as 'pick-up', this is weird and retarded. Guys, this is a way to chat with women . . . then possibly stick your cock down their throat. . . ehm . . that's about it. What more do you expect? And it's not anything to either TRUST or DISTRUST as much as this:
. . . Just wondering if you were high when you wrote this? High sugar diet? PMS? You can't imagine the male version of ^this? Crreeeeeepy.
Can anybody hit the crash cymbal here? LOL . . every creepy guy in this forum lists all his "policies", then tells us about all his DISTRUSTS in types of women or their beliefs, then yanks out the violin to pull the LOVE card. Not only is this weird and creepy, it's comical. Really? You're telling us that you judge guys through whether he reads a pick up or book or not, whether he labels himself PUA or DUI or FBI, and then YOU WANT TO BE LOVED FOR WHO YOU ARE? Come on. . . even you had to be laughing as you wrote this . . .

I completely agree with Melissa about the 'Leave her better' thing. I think wrote very similar sentiments in Chief's thread long ago.

Jelly,

That's a neat list and I think you might be on to something here.