I was re-listening to David Shade's "Give Women Wild Screaming Orgasms," which I highly recommend, when a passage that I guess I'd skipped over or forgotten in the book caught my attention.

His basic idea involves 2 premises:

1. Women will categorise men into potential: (i) ONS, (ii) Fuckbuddy, (iii) LTR, (iv) AFC, BEFORE they sleep with them (or not) based on the first interaction.
2. Women want to be respected by their man, outside the bedroom, if they are high self esteem.

Conclusion 1 - if a girl sleeps with you on a first date, she will be UNLIKELY to want to see you again, because either

(A) She categorised you as a ONS, you don't have enough "substance / depth" to be an LTR
(B) She feels too much of a slut that and you won't respect her enough to be in an LTR, even if she might have wanted one to begin with

Course of action - it's better to WAIT to have sex, unless you DEFINITELY don't want to see her again.

Thoughts?

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Completely agreed, blondguy.

Now the way that you do not have sex is important. I have been found in situations where a one night stand was possible, yet I tell the girl that we should wait.

I argue that you still need to foreplay and go pretty far so that you do not come off as an insecure person. I have noticed that if you do not want to have sex when it is available to you, she can become suspicious (thinking if there is anything wrong with you). So I go far, grabbing her all over and having her notice that my dick IS functional by having her grab it. Then I say things like, dont worry, when sex happens it will be so worth the wait.

This behavior creates a level of attraction towards you because you are not needy or rushing like most guys. Notice you need to notice how she reacts and play the game to your favor. Making her wait when she covets it is analogous to her wanting a treat and you making her wait for it--they value it much more because the tension/desire/curiousity for it is much stronger when they receive it.

Play with it and notice her reactions; it should strengthen your seductive endeavor.

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although many "gurus" say that having sex ASAP increases your chances for LTR, I have to admit-IDK, but I definitely remember 870 had a good post on this topic.

This is a great thread.
I agree with it.

Nothing to add.

_________________
Its getting Hot out there.

Its all to easy.

I want to be a tree!

In my experience, it doesn't matter. Although to be honest, any girl I have ever fucked on the first date and wanted to get into a LTR with, I have been able to do so. If anything I find that the girl frames it in her head as "OMG, I felt a connection with you immediately that was so strong I just had to be with you" or some shit like that.

Truth be told, the longer you take to have sex with her, the less likely it seems to transform into a relationship. Thats just my experience though.

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@Warped Mind, I agree with you too dude, because it really has to do with how the individual PUA frames the seductive process and proceeds thereafter.

I am sure that the girls that I have had sex with rather quickly would have loved to get into relationships with me. But I did not want to. Maybe it was just that i did not value them as much after that. So now I make myself wait to intensify the feelings towards and value for sex

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Honestly if you maintain a level at which you are compelling on outings and keep things interesting.. you are a possible LTR at any point of interaction. I agree that if you wait tooooo long w/out having sex that you run the risk of being AFC. But if you hold of for a week or two if you dont see the girl too much, you are still good.

Sorry. . . what exactly is a 'first date'? The first time you meet the girl or the first time you actually take her out?

Any time you pull a girl from a bar and bang her on that night, chances are extremely high that you won't see her again . . . and the guys who do this often are the guys who can't/won't commit to relationships; they just know by practice of habit that this stuff doesn't lead to relationships.

And often times, the girls will wake up early and text you right away. It'll be the tune of something like, "Last night was so much fun! . . Soo Crazy . . . So drunk . . . etc . . " - The idea is to justify that she is 1. Not a slut. 2. She is a human being. 3. She is a fun human being and you can't condemn her for that.

After this quick exchange of "agreements", you won't likely hear from her . . . unless you force the issue.

"Gaming" isn't just a chatter between two people. "Radio Silence" + some time frame can play a role. Just texting her "So busy today! Everything smooth at your factory?" during the week prior to your 'date' gives her PLENTY to think about. It creates fantasies in her head . . .

. . . More important than #2. Being respected by her man, I'd say that women NEED to be respected by her existing peers even more. How will she explain her 'new man' to her friends, co-workers, families, etc . . .? "Yeah, I met him in a bar and he made me laugh and we pretty much fucked. So I decided to go out with him. . . " - Doesn't really work does it?

I kinda agree with what the OP posted. But I heard this reframe COUNTLESS times.
If they sleep right away with you and find out she likes you later she'll use this reframe to justify WHY she had sex with you so quick, so she isn't labeled as a slut.

I hate these rules of when to do stuff. I think you should have sex when you feel like it. But yes, if you take too long you get friendzoned.

_________________


"Their compliance is,
'Does she grab your hand?' F*ck you! I want to grab her mind. If I can
grab her mind, she'll be grabbing whatever I want, any way I want her to." - Ross Jeffries

Something I should add, regardless of when you have sex with her, on the first date or not, an impending relationship with her depends more on what you do after the sex.

If your wanting a LTR with her, after sex you need to enter the "Boyfriend Frame." be affectionate, cuddle, be romantic, do BF stuff basically. And now, its not afc/chode to do this. Its absolutey fine to do after the sex.

In her mind, this will frame you as a romantic interest. Plus, sinse you have already had sex, she will continue having it with you where as sometimes if she sees you as a romantic option first, she will with hold sex for a while.

Having sex first, and being seen as a sexual object first, allows you to have your cake and eat it too.

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This is a nice theory, but it just isn't true from my experience. The vast majority of girls I've slept with on the first date, or the first night I met them, still tried to turn it into a BF/GF relationship. A few definitely saw it as one-night stands, but most of them definitely did not. But it might be because I continued to take interest in them afterwards and didn't treat them like sluts or 1 night stands (but more like Fbuddies).

I do agree with your course of action though.. if you really, really want a monogamous LTR with a girl, then you're probably better off waiting for the 2nd or 3rd date, and really leave her daydreaming about getting you in bed in the meantime. Though don't wait TOO long - I've definitely seen guys blow their chances with girls because they waited far too many dates before getting super physical and sexual (just heard these stories 3rdhand from Fbuddy girls who ditch guys after 4-5 dates when the guy hasnt yet manned up and fucked them).

So, 2-3 dates may ideally be the perfect time to wait if you want a monogamous LTR, but sleeping with them on the first date is by no means going to ruin your chances with most girls - and you'd probably be acting overly cautious by refusing to sleep with a girl SOLELY because you were afraid she would see you as a one night stand.

There is no perfect solve all answer here.
Every interaction is different, every person is different, every pickup is different.

No right or wrong answer.

The best answer to when to bang her is in the moment ask yourself will you regret this. Make a decision of when and stick to it, say you did what you thought was the best plan of action. A confident guy will know what he wants when he wants it.

For the typical AFC tho my advice is get it in asap, as AFC's are not confident.

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Inner game is the core, outer game is just an expression of it

Think about it like this.

If a girl wants to sleep with you on a first date, but you know you'll see her again, you go some of the way but not all of the way, will she want to see you again? If not, do you really think this girl is relationship material? Probably not.

So that means, YOU make the decision not to sleep with her on the first date. If you do, you should be prepared that it may become a one night stand because it moved too fast. I know this sounds funny but women don't expect guys to control the situation from moving TOO FAST, but if they do, most women have a lot of respect! AND THEY WILL SEE THAT GUY AGAIN

Greg

I didn't close the first night....Girl wanted to get to know me better first and I decided it was a good idea (what a fool), so after fucking around, i got out of the bed and left with her naked on the bed. She had all the power at that point, hard to get in front of her, i knew if i saw her again it's a closed deal. Couldn't meet her again.

Fuck first, get the emotional leverage, then start doing fun stuff together if you wanna be girlfriend (pick her up for dinner, go to the park all day the next day, go hiking). if you wanna fuck, just do stuff related to fucking and nothing more. Just call and go over there lol.

For the emo leverage, fuck, spend the night, spend all next day with her if possible and do fun stuff, then fuck again second night or drop her off. To just fuck, fuck then leave in the middle of the night if you don't wanna see her again. to see her again, fuck then spend all night, then leave in morning, throw in some texts and ignore until next weekend.

I learned the lessons the hard way. Why the hell didn't anyone tell me?????

my f-close routine works on girls you harldly know who aren't sluts just trying to fuck. You basically keep arousing them and when their mind says no, you switch the subject so their mind is off the no, then you re-arouse and escalate further.

f. F-close: drive her home, ask to use her bathroom. Use bathroom, seduce.
i. Use sweet talk with touch kino on body.
ii. Resistance to any escalation interrupt with a curious question
1. What’s your favorite color?
iii. Slow down conversation, then initiate an escalation from the beginning and proceed to higher escalation, repeat as many times as necessary.

Earned me free night's stay in Canada when my friend ditched me.