Hey guys,

The craziest thing happened to me yesterday night. I will make it short, though a Field Report of various interactions could be interesting I think, perhaps I will do it later.

I had regained attraction with this girl I was LJBF'ed a few months ago; however, a few nights ago, when we went out, she was with two girl friends. I gamed when of them pretty hard, I can tell you it was so funny because it was actually looking like a textbook interaction: very precise in the phases, in the signals, in the techniques she used and I used (like shit tests, negs, push-pull).
At the end of the night we became very sexual oriented with this new girl, but we did nothing.

The next night I come over to the first girl's place: her SPAM was actually hosting the other girl at their place, so they were both there.
I continue gaming the new girl, and it's pretty much done for the f-close; at some point, when we were left alone the three of us, we started to actually joke on the possibility of a threesome.

I will skip the details for a later FR if I'm in mood; fact is, we end in the bed all together (the fourth girl is in the same room but different bed). I'm in the middle and they're on my sides.
Honestly? I don't know if I freaking want a threesome, especially in a room with another girl, that's kinda sick. But I feel just postponing the thoughts for afterwards and going with the vibe, see what happens.

The new girl gets close and leans her head against my shoulder. I take the other one under my arm and let her slide on my chest. In the meantime I take the hand of the other girl.
I will also skip details here: eventually, the first girl is all over me, kissing and stuff. While we make out I try to push the other girl's hand so to pull her closer, but she squeezes the hand without moving. The other girl starts getting naked and stuff get quite hot.
At this point I'm honestly embarassed, because I'm badly making out with a naked girl while another girl holds my hand and doesn't want to leave it. I try to get her closer but to no avail (I honestly don't have any experience of this stuff, so I probably made it all wrong). I realize the other girl is getting a bit frustrated by this fact, and gives me stares. Also tries some freeze-outs (like she turns completely for a few seconds and gets away, but she gets closer herself after a few seconds).
Eventually I loosen the hold of the girl's hand, trying to be as delicate as possible, and not leaving her all of a sudden.
When I do leave her hand, I get to the other girl and she's like: « Let's go to the other room. » we do, and things go until I get LMR (lol, really LAST MINUTE); but this is FR material.

Next day: the first girl leaves for a week-trip, and I come in the evening at their place, because the fourth girl invites me for dinner.
The other girl is now really cold to me. I don't blame her of course: I would definitely be, though I would like to do something. Most of all I actually wish I didn't hurt her badly (I though I didn't since I had met her just a day before).
I realize she's still hugely attracted to me. And by acting chilled out, I got some IOIs and kino from her; but I understand she's very angry and also kinda hurt (I think she really got a crush on me).
Any advice for this?

I think I should start again by building more comfort and trust; but keep in mind she's angry and the other girl is staying away only for a week.
I don't necesserely want a threesome — actually I don't want it. But I want to set the frame in which is cool I am attracted to both of them and we're not exclusive (I don't want a LTR right now) — and actually I do know the other girl is dating other people.

I was thinking of speaking to her openly, something along the lines of: « Look. I like you. I honestly do. But I also like her. Actually I was dating her when I met you and ended up flirting with you…|blah blah » I don't really know, as I hate openly rationalize these kind of things.

Suggestions would be very welcome.
And if someone thinks an FR would be useful, I may think of doing it.

神羅

Umm my gut level response is if you want anything other than pure sex out of this situation, you're a gutless prick. I mean, really, why should that other girl put up with you at all if she wants something emotional out of it? You fucked someone else in front of her. So if this isn't about sex, be honest that you're a complete cad. Don't try to bullshit her in any way about emotional nonsense. If you want sex, and she wants sex, then fine, have sex.

Hey, thanks for your unforgiving criticism, I appreciate that kind of thing.
It may be I'm a gutless prick: I certainly don't want an orbiter, or don't want to string along someone. As I said, I honestly don't want to hurt nobody.

On the other hand, I'm in an open relationship with the first girl, since she f'ks some other guy and I'm cool with it. I could just go and choose the second girl, but I've known her for just two days — honestly, I think she's cool and interesting, but I wanted to know her more than our continous sexual innuendos before really making judgements.

Besides, we've met twice and our meetings had been basically just sexual innuendos, I didn't think she wanted something emotional out of it.
I assumed she was ok with this, since when I met her I was dating the first girl, and that same night we spent intimate time the three of us together (like massaging eachother).

To be entirely honest, to this date I've been only in exclusive relationships (not necessarely LTR, but when I chose one I stuck with her and got off all the other options); I'm probably doing that out of fear, since exclusivity became one-itis most of the time, and I don't want that kind of emotional involvement right now.
Probably I'm just afraid.

神羅

Whether you get anything else out of these girls is anyone's guess right now, but what happened in that room was VERY simple and this is all you need to hear;

You were in a situation where 3 girls were broadcasting quite clearly that they were fine with what was going on - you were the only one that had a problem with that, and they've judged you on that.  This is primal knowledge - anyone, man or woman, will ask - what kind of guy will not be comfortable with 2 hot girls getting sexual with him?  That's why you had LMR with the naked girl, that's why the other girl is cold on you. etc.

Basically you have two choices - either you become accustomed to the idea that 3somes are natural and fun, and so is voyeurism (the girl in the other bed) basically since the caveman days people would have been doing this stuff.  Or if you can't, you have to re-think what kind of guy you are, and you are not the one that should be pulling 3 girls into one bedroom if you can't handle the results.

In my honest opinion, what you ran into was an insecurity - you're justifying it to yourself saying it's probably not you, it's gross, etc. etc. but dude - the other 3 girls didn't have a problem with it, and in terms of traditional gender roles, they are supposed to me more conservative than us.  Basically bailing out of that situation broadcast that you were a wuss.  If that situation is really not for you, then you should avoid it in the first place and save everyone their time and embarrassment.

Thanks for the feedback, albeit kinda harsh; but I take it.
If I joined a community like this is because I feel I have something to improve on myself as a person. One of the aspects I realize I have to improve is comfort and confidence with my body and my sexuality — because a lot of stuff which was natural in caveman days, now it's full of social substructures built in the centuries.

You are right: I don't know if I would like it or not until I try it; but I doubt I would judge someone as a wuss if he realized he didn't like these things after he tried.
I wouldn't be quick to judge that something is pleasant to everyone.

Besides, the problem was that only one girl was getting sexual with me. The other was actually trying to pull me back; or so I felt from her grasp in my hand.
But I don't know: I think I could have pushed it a little further to the point that we got a threesome, that's why I titled the thread in that way.

Don't take this post as a defense: I know I have my weak points, I know I have to improve and I know I made some mistakes; I thank you for your analysis, because that's what I asked.

Just on a side note: I f-closed both of the girls in the end, separately. And they both know it.
Now I'm trying to establish a frame in which that is cool. Honestly, I realize that wouldn't probably be cool with me pretty soon, and I'll have to choose either or none; perhaps they will choose for me, I don't know right now — but something such as this wouldn't have happened one month ago, so I take something has changed in my life, in myself at least.
And change is good.

Really, thanks again for your analysis.

神羅

Yeah I'm not "attacking" you and I wouldn't assume you're "defending" yourself. I'm just telling you what I think you need to hear based on what's worked personally for me in the past. All the mollycoddling from friends and family saying "oh she's just a bitch" and "the problem is not you" never got me ANYWHERE. it's like drugs I say - maybe it's supposed to make you feel good, but in the long term it doesn't fix the problem and is actually bad for you.

You are right - things are natural, and we just have these strange hangups in the way.

I'm not sure you're right about the clothed girl - I think it's quite possible she wanted a "turn" - you should make her feel comfortable before she can jump on top of you WITH the other girl. In fact maybe the threesome would have just been a series of turns, who knows - but it's worth acknowledging the extra step there where she may be comfortable doing stuff with you in front of another girl, but not actually touching that other girl - heck maybe she'd stay fully clothed for the entire threesome, who knows.

Im not saying I'm 100% right about her exactly, but definitely you can practice 1. Trying to empathize with where her mind might be at, and 2. Doing or saying certain things with the underlying aim of finding out what you don't know.

Eg. If I'm not sure a girl wants to stay out late with me, I'll say "what time do you have to be back?" if she gives a time and/or reason, it means she doesn't want to stay out. If she's vague and/or says she's got nothing on tomorrow or says she can just drink a heap of coffee in the morning, (for example) it means she wants to stay out late.

I would have switched to the other girl and see how they both reacted. Honestly, if they're enjoying themselves, one bad move isn't going to end it all - as you can see, she gave you several warnings you were on the wrong track, by squeezing your hand, freezin you out, etc.

Also I'm not being quick to judge - I'm saying they would have judged you. You got 3 willing girls into a bedroom together and you weren't willing to take it where they were expecting to go - they're judging you on that - that's life.

The key is - if you're in a mindset of "what should I be doing next, I'm inexperienced" - that's going to fuck things up. If instead you're willing to test the waters and explore what's possible - you almost can't go wrong.

People have had good threesomes first time around - the difference is all self confidence.

I understand.
As a matter of fact, I went along with the vibe for quite some more time I was comfortable with. Also when I f-closed them in the next days, I assumed the mindset you're speaking about: even though I had no idea how to fix this stuff, I just acted confident, as if I knew what I was doing.
You wouldn't imagine how surprised I was when I realized how the girl who turned cold on me just fell and dropped her shield barely with confidence. I didn't have to explain anything, didn't have to fix anything really: just act strongly and show them I knew what I was doing.
For me, rationally, this is impressive.

I should probably have lead her that night with more confidence. Now I realize she would have followed. Fact is, she is a strong type of girl, our interaction was from the beginning the sort of neg-neg stuff (with a lot of sexual innuendos); so I was kind of put off when it came down to be stronger than her.
Though I should have realized first: the reason why she was so attracted to me was precisely because I was stronger than her (or acted stronger, if there's a difference): not failing her shit tests, always keeping control of the frame.
I realize now that these kind of girls paradoxically just want to be lead… much more than those who appear "weaker" or with a "weaker frame".
My most important LMR was with a girl like this, and I freaked out when we ended up fighting to decide what to do or where to go eat, and I was always like: “I don't care, everything's fine.”
She wanted me to decide. And it was strange because whenever I suggested something, she would reject it. Then I would say: “Then you decide if not everything is fine for you.”
She would go mad. And I didn't understand.
Now I do.
They want a stronger frame. And the feeling of her melting was inestimable.

Actually I f-closed her yesterday night, before writing to you.
Then she wanted to be brought home (it was 4 AM and she had to work at 7.30 and had her work clothes at home). I did, though I'm not sure she really appreciated that.
I don't know how to express it, but it was as if after the f-close she took control of the frame. I kinda felt it.
There's a passage I like a lot of a very ancient Hermetic text called Asclepius; it goes like this:

« For if you infact regard that supreme moment when the two natures would join together, such as the one greedily seizes the other to hide it deeper within itself; then, in that moment, out of their common congress, the female attains the strength of the man and the man loosens himself into a female languor. »

I felt we separated yesterday night on her frame; I was bringing her home according to her own terms.
What do you think I should do the next couple of days? Wait for her to make a move towards me, or that would be perceived as the jerk who f'ks and just ignores you afterwards?

I liked your suggestions about testing the ground subtly, though I'm not sure I am able to do this without conveying indecisiveness in most situation. Your example is clear enough, but I should try to apply in all other situations where I would need to gauge something.

And, by the way, yes: I totally agree with you — that mollycoddling which is usually perceived as friendliness or help, is just detrimental. So yea, I appreciate that kind of straightforward talk, though of course I can't avoid being touched in my ego and self-esteem when someone tells me I am a wuss. That's all.
Cheers,

神羅

If I say "they judged you as a wuss because of your actions" and you hear me saying "you're a wuss" then you have some negative internal dialogs going on. You can do more to be okay with the fact that - yes I made a mistake and I know how it may look to others but it does not define who I am, the important thing is to learn from it.

As the man you're going to make the effort to stay in contact - remember you being in control and knowing what to do, worked before.

In my experience, about 2 days later, and no more than 4 days without some form of contact, preferably a phone call, to at least touch base and gauge her interest on setting up another date.